Dog....what should I get?

[yorkman]

My wife worries about living (just) outside Udon a bit; from personal experience from her a "farang" house is a target for the local lowlife. Her family had the sleeping gas through the door (in a normal thai house) a long time ago and were robbed.

We will take the usual precautions in our new house (downstairs bars on the windows, even though I find them unsightly), an Alarm and my "to be" Thai neighbour will call the BIB if he hears it, etc.

I personally favour a dog that will deliver a big bite in the "ham noi" in the dark when I am not there .......so.....and I had dogs as a kid and collies do not count....too nippy and nervous around children; my criteria:

- I cannot have a Soi dog type....my wife thinks too dirty and I agree
- I have small kids....a Doberman is ideal for the job intended but I just do not trust the type with small kids
- I saw the German Shephard post.....never had one......are they OK as "part of the family" if trained properly?

Or other suggestions?

[Bandung_Dero]

- I saw the German Shephard post.....never had one......are they OK as "part of the family" if trained properly?

Or other suggestions?

A very good, intelligent dog but unfortuneatly the German Shephard has genetic problems, which seems to be worse here in Thailand, where their rear end gives out from about 6 years onward. I'm personally looking for a female Jack Russell (Jane Russell), no luck yet.

[valentine]

Morning Yorkman. Back in UK I used to breed, train and show shepherds, both German and Belgian and I would dearly love to have a pair here, however available stock is very low grade both in form and health. Every one I have seen, and I went to see a lot, has been suffering from retarded developement, due to being fed on a predominantly rice diet when young, and more than a few were carrying or suffering from hip dysplasia, a bone degeneration disease. So not to be recommended.What I suggest as an ideal guard dog and a great family pet, also good stock available is a Thai Ridgeback. Its a dog about the size of a GS, cream in colour and has a distinct ridge of hair down its spine, going in reverse direction to the rest. If you were to buy a young female you would have an excellent , loyal family pet that would take care of any children in the house, guard with its life. It has short hair and rarely molts, because it is used to the climate, unlike the sheperd which has a 2 layer coat and reguarly sheds the thick undercoat in this climate.It is a recognised breed, so you should be able to trace its bloodlines for any physical defects. However if your not thinking of breeding, this shouldn't be necessary as they are very hardy dogs.The Thai name is Lung Ahn and a plus point, the people consider it to be a very lucky dog to have.
If your more familiar with European breeds, its closest relative is the
Rhodesian Ridgeback, which shares its same qualities.

[wansman]

Friends of mine had some Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Quite wonderful dogs as family oriented pest and guard dogs as well.

[yorkman]

Thanks for the replies.

That sounds ideal Val, have you any idea of the best place to get one and I will try to convince my wife that a dog is not always "dirty too many hair". I know what a Rhodesian Ridgeback looks like (Perfect!, one glance in the said lowlifes direction and they would be on their toes) but I do not recall seeing anything similar.

I note you say female which I understand the reason for. Any particular problems that you know about if she was spayed? Labrador dogs for instance tend to run to fat afterwards. I just do not want to be in the position of gaining 6 or soi dog crosses, even though it would certainly not be running the streets, but neither would I want to do anything detrimental, health wise, to the dog.

John

[valentine]

Hi John, I am sorry I don't know of breeders in the Udon area. I used to have mine when I lived in Kanchanaburi.Now as for spaying.Yes there is always a tendecy for a spayed bitch, of any breed, although I agree Labs are very prone., to gain weight.This tendecy can be signicicantly reduced by allowing her one litter first. This also has the dual purpose of allowing the maternal instinct to develope if you want her to become a family pet.
You will become her lost litter.
I hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs, but it is essential you discuss this in detail with your partner as in general Thais do not, after the puppy stage, respect a dog as we do, as part of the family.My reason for being doggie less is because my wife and I cannot agree on the treatment it should have.One major difference is she insists it stays outside the house, day and night, whereas I insist it is given free reign, how else can it protect the whole property.So I feel it wouldn't be fair on the dog to be confused by this conflict.

[yorkman]

Thanks Val. Yes we have already talked about it in general terms. Her only real objection is moulting too much, and you have covered that one off.

Actually I am not too worried if she carries on insisting it sleeps (not lives, just sleeps) outside the house. Her fear is a repeat of the "gas in house" approach by the country villains. At first I thought she was joking, but 3rd parties, and her family (its happened to them, years ago) assure me it happens.

She also had, while I was in the UK, somebody break into her internet "shop"(before it was sold), while she was sleeping there. Sensibly she phoned the BIB on her cellphone while I talked to her on the house line, and they arrived in 5 minutes flat which amazed me.

In light of this, overcoming her objections will be fairly easy. If it lives within the bounds of the property, its looks alone deter any lowlifes, and it is safe with the family, I am sure a compromise can be reached. I take on board entirely what you say about the different attitude to family pets. She's a softy that already has birds, fish etc and they get looked after better than I do!!

[businessman]

John,my local goldshop has a Thai ridgeback so i will ask them where they got it from.Certainly no defects with it,an awesome dog.A lot of the foreign big breeds suffer from inbreeding and poor blood lines so i would avoid them.

Marcus

[yorkman]

Thanks a lot!! Awesome was what I had in mind A bit of training not to eat anything it finds in the garden, and common knowledge that it lives there is my plan to head off any issues before they develop.

John

[Bump]

Thanks a lot!! Awesome was what I had in mind A bit of training not to eat anything it finds in the garden, and common knowledge that it lives there is my plan to head off any issues before they develop.

John

We have a hienz 57 Thia style probably with Thais it would be a Soi dog. We got it as a pup and it was given good foods for growth with tons of vitamins, weighs about 50 pounds. Very protective of the house.

We made some mistakes with it, I couldn't get the wife to understand that it needed training when it was small. so many bad habits engrained now. For some reaon it took no time to house train and a a matter of fact seemed to do it on it' own, once it figures out how to get out.

A male and definetly an Alpha dog, that is where the problem comes in, smart as whip but head strong as can be. Knows what to do and just refuses to do it. Hasn't bitten anyone yet, but has threatened many times. So he is no longer a house dog.

I think a female would be easier to handle this is the first dog that I have that I have not been able to train.

As far as entering the property people just won't do it, look very threatening, as I said hasn't bitten anyone but he sure looks like he would.

Another mistake I made was taking him for walks now he wants out, I should have known better.

No one is going to get in our yard with out me knowing it, the down side because of the snapping not goos wiht kids. I don't think he would bite a child but he sure will kncok them down. Nothing gentle about this guy. He is ten months old now. Maybe he will mellow later. Or if we had him fixed he might be a bit easier to deal with.

Based on what I have seen in this case I think a female is dead on. But I wouldn't reject the soi type dog completly it depends on how they are taken care of as to what they will be like. You get a pure bred and let him run the streets he isn't going to be a good dog either.

[Alagrl]

You might consider a standard or giant Schnauzer...I have a miniature (13-18 lbs), but they won't deliver the bite you want and are also susceptible to pancreatitis at about age 6-7. However, the standards or giants have the size, and the breed is VERY protective of house, property and people/children, with the added benefit of NOT SHEDDING AT ALL. All Schnauzers bark loudly at perimeter noises -- for your needs, that can be a pro or a con.

Having owned both German shepherds and collies also, I agree that the hip dysplasia and shedding put them out of consideration.

[yorkman]

You might consider a standard or giant Schnauzer...I have a miniature (13-18 lbs), but they won't deliver the bite you want and are also susceptible to pancreatitis at about age 6-7. However, the standards or giants have the size, and the breed is VERY protective of house, property and people/children, with the added benefit of NOT SHEDDING AT ALL. All Schnauzers bark loudly at perimeter noises -- for your needs, that can be a pro or a con.

Ok; thanks for that. However, Mark and Val have reinforced my view of what the problem is here. Most pedigree large dog breeds, well all large or small actually, seem to have been bred with little care to bloodline or health, and are much inferior from a health point of view to the ubiquitous soi mongrel.

Bearing in mind the heat in April/May, mosquitos and other biting things, it really needs to be suited to the climate, and in top health.

To tell the truth I do not particularly want a dog again. Its a lot of trouble if they are cared for properly (unlike what usually happens here, as was pointed out) and I will not have one unless it is looked after properly. That means fed properly, kept clean, kept entertained and generally made to feel happy and part of the family.

I am only considering this, primarily, from a practical perspective. Since the suggestion I have looked at the Thai Ridgeback on the web. Its actually a medium size dog in reality, but I sure would think twice before entering its "domain" . My only concern then would be that is gets a firm hand when young (I am only in Thailand about half of the year). My wife wants a "man dog cos strong and not pubs" (getting there on the convincing front ) so I am talking her out of that, and the kids just want a puppy to play with, being kids.

Actually my favourite dog we ever had, or rather my parents did when I was young, was a mastiff. Softest thing you could meet, would lick a burglar to death..but looked extremely frightening...and knocked my father on his back on more than one occasion meeting him at the door

[yorkman]

You get a pure bred and let him run the streets he isn't going to be a good dog either.

Agree entirely Ray. I am certainly not going to let it run the streets. My only concern about the soi dog mongrel type is you just do not know what they will end up like. Most pure bred dogs have known characteristics, and I certainly do not want to get into the situation that either my little one has got a bite cos she playfully scared it a bit (Collie at one extreme) or that it would not tackle a lowlife without hesitation. A jack russell would do that but its the deterrent factor I want, one look at the dog and they move on. And if they do not move on and climb over my wall one night...

My wife, given past experience, is very understandably worrying a bit about this. We are moving slightly out of town, and our "to be" Thai neighbour has warned about this; he has had problems over the years. If I am not at home, I want a level of security that she feels confident in. So, its a dog in the area, an alarm, no easy way of entry downstairs or roof and, I hesitate here....a taser in the bedside drawer

I would not care if the dog was mongrel; they are healthy and fit usually and great fun, because they have not been bred to some silly "standard" that says its nose should be "this pointy" or whatever and disregarding other things. Hence the suggestions given are ideal...these are working dogs.

John

[Bump]

You get a pure bred and let him run the streets he isn't going to be a good dog either.

Agree entirely Ray. I am certainly not going to let it run the streets. My only concern about the soi dog mongrel type is you just do not know what they will end up like. Most pure bred dogs have known characteristics, and I certainly do not want to get into the situation that either my little one has got a bite cos she playfully scared it a bit (Collie at one extreme) or that it would not tackle a lowlife without hesitation. A jack russell would do that but its the deterrent factor I want, one look at the dog and they move on. And if they do not move on and climb over my wall one night...

My wife, given past experience, is very understandably worrying a bit about this. We are moving slightly out of town, and our "to be" Thai neighbour has warned about this; he has had problems over the years. If I am not at home, I want a level of security that she feels confident in. So, its a dog in the area, an alarm, no easy way of entry downstairs or roof and, I hesitate here....a taser in the bedside drawer

I would not care if the dog was mongrel; they are healthy and fit usually and great fun, because they have not been bred to some silly "standard" that says its nose should be "this pointy" or whatever and disregarding other things. Hence the suggestions given are ideal...these are working dogs.

John

Well our little mutt was the hero the other night two guys decided to go into the house across the street, he barked like crazy, we checked in time to see two guys running down the street. Of course the other side of the coin is he doesn't recgnize that bad guys form the good guys.

He has his curfew you are home on his clock nothing said, arrive late and you will get challenged

[yorkman]

Ok I'm back to square one I think. By the way, Ray 50lbs does'nt sound like a little mutt!!

I've checked out the Thai Ridgeback, and talked to a couple of owners; even emailed a guy over in Chaingmai who breeds them.

It would be ideal if it was just adults in the house. They vary like any dog breed, but this is an "early" type dog from a domesticated point of view. Unless very much kept in hand, its a pack dog really, that wants to assert its place. I would be fine, my family have always had dogs. my wife would take it on from that point of view (my boss, no problem!!! ) but I have been repeatedly warned, not to be trusted with kids. Some are ok, most are not. Ohhh and very small kids are in danger of being viewed as prey . While these warnings maybe a bit exaggerated, perhaps, its a risk I cannot really take.

I have actually looked at "rescuing" one of the larger type soi dogs that are actually ownerless in effect, fixing it up etc etc. Apparently they can be superb in the new "pack" unit, but again its risky, and I cannot see me getting the "off the street" mangy cur past SWMBO somehow....

Shara, the larger Schnauzer are just not available in Thailand.

I even looked at importing a dog, its actually quite easy, except for the huge costs of flying one in (works out at much more than a First Class Flight!!), and that anything that could be categorised as "Guard Dog" breed has been known to be refused entry. The exact details on this are elusive.

Any other ideas?? Does anybody know of a litter that comes from a bitch of decent temperament (yes, that is just asking for comment, I know....)....or....what?

John

p.s. my brother working in the agricultural industry has suggested an electric fencer unit as used for containing farm animals for added security, a good bit of lateral thinking......

[banpaeng]

Have watched this from afar John but try an Australian Heeler, Blue or Red. They are very protective and great with kids. I will warn you they are a bit hyper-active. You will need a yard or they will run. They can also jump a fence with ease. If have enough room to run will stay in yard.

As suggested above get the female, have one litter then spay no matter what dog you get. Some males will still have male habits even after you cut them. ( I do not like saying this) Most males are a bit hardheaded. Guess it goes with the territory. With the soi dogs out there when they come in heat, he will run.

One other trait of a heeler is they like to ride in a vehicle. You got a truck, when you leave they will leave with you. One good thing they will also protect your truck from Khup moving it so he can park. Don't ask me why but when not at home they pretty much will stay with the vehicle.

They are a short hair dog, does really well in the heat of summer, Will protect till hell freezes over, and great with kids(loves to wrestle with kids). They use them to run cattle but also to protect sheep.

My Dad had one when my kids were little. Kept him at his cow place. He stayed there and did nto stray. Played with my kids, and if cows or other dogs came around, they had better beware. Didn't need to worry about theives in the night. These little dogs know how to fight.


Maybe some of our Aussie members can either agree or disagree.

Here is a link

http://www.blueheeler.com/

[yorkman]

Ok Brian, found that after a google search.

The problem is; are they available in Thailand? ....I doubt it.... and they look a bit small. I am really wanting a deterrent, rather than putting a dog to the test.

Perhaps I am asking for the impossible; a dog that is a good, easy going family pet, easy with kids; big enough and bad looking enough to deter a potential intruder with a sideways glance; a definate "territory" dog and can take the Thai climate easily.

I could do this easily in farangland....a boxer would fit the criteria for example....but the breed in Thailand is horribly inbred, their breathing problems are worse than in Europe.

Thanks for the suggestion though; that looks like a "character" dog....hehe

John

[banpaeng]

Don't know about how readily available, but wife just walked in from work and said you want a watch dog good with kids this is it.

[yorkman]

Ok Brian thanks, I'll check it out more. I admit, I have never heard of it before.

It's a problem in Thailand; the dog breeds of a known type are bred for profit regardless of their health, or the dog is an unknown quantity, and I cannot risk the kids getting bitten badly by a dog that reverts to type. Not its fault, just its instincts, but it would need to go. And I would not want to do that to any animal, especially in Thailand, the humane rehousing schemes are minimal.

I want this to be a one off, not cause heartache for me, or the family. Sort of easy in Europe or elsewhere if you are a bit doggy wise, but a problem in Thailand so far.

John

[valentine]

Hi John, Sorry to hear your still dogless.Just a couple of comments on your latest thoughts. If you import, bear in mind acclimatisation, do not bring in the European winter period, the change could be too dramatic.You will have to arrange a special appointment at the vets in the country of origin as all dogs coming in must have rabies shots, and vets are not allowed to keep these on the shelf but must obtain MOH approval.Secondly, travel with the dog, it works out cheaper and is great for your own peace of mind. I advise you use BA they will provide you with an approved size travelling kennel and they seem to take care of animals much better than they do the human cargo.
On your search for a local bitch in whelp. It is normal for temprement to be a cross gender gene. ie: dog puppies are taken from the bitch and the females inherit the dads. If you can find him