A personal View of the u.k,and why im leaving
-
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 151
- Joined: July 1, 2008, 10:34 pm
- Location: Namsom
- Contact:
A personal View of the u.k,and why im leaving
At my time of life,i always thought that i would retire,and enjoy the garden of England,content ,spending my days,fishing,visiting all the places of interest that i always wanted to visit.Enjoying myself,basicly.
But alas im sorry to say,England is now not a nice place to live.To date,there has been 21 death,s,so far this year ,murder,at the hands of knife wielding thugs.Car crime is out of control,they even now make hour long TV shows,about it.The youth of this country,have now become,what we used to call HOODLEMS.From the age of about 10yrs old,girls and boys,all smoke,take drugs,swear like mad,have no respect for anyone or anything.They all know that because of all the political correctness,and the human rights laws,you cant touch them.
Then when they reach their teens,they,re out in the towns nearly every night,binge drinking until the early hours,then the fun really starts.If they end up in hospital,its then the poor nurses,who get attacked or abused,they even make TV shows about that to,and what do the police do nothing.the government are full of hot air,they have,nt got a glue.
The Eastern europeans have all but taken over,the whole place is full of them.
With petrol now at pound;1.21p a litre,a pint of larger at pound;3.15p ,and a pkt of faggs at pound;5.70p god i cant afford to drive,drink,or smoke.Oh well we can still eat,yea right.A weekly shop used to cost me,(and i live on my own) about pound;20,that was about 3yrs ago,now it cost me about £ioo.Gas and electric prices have risen by 40%,council tax,now cost me pound;1200 a yr for a tiny one bed flat.
I used to be proud of this country,but not any more,
Now, after 41 yrs of full time work , i just cant wait to leave.
But alas im sorry to say,England is now not a nice place to live.To date,there has been 21 death,s,so far this year ,murder,at the hands of knife wielding thugs.Car crime is out of control,they even now make hour long TV shows,about it.The youth of this country,have now become,what we used to call HOODLEMS.From the age of about 10yrs old,girls and boys,all smoke,take drugs,swear like mad,have no respect for anyone or anything.They all know that because of all the political correctness,and the human rights laws,you cant touch them.
Then when they reach their teens,they,re out in the towns nearly every night,binge drinking until the early hours,then the fun really starts.If they end up in hospital,its then the poor nurses,who get attacked or abused,they even make TV shows about that to,and what do the police do nothing.the government are full of hot air,they have,nt got a glue.
The Eastern europeans have all but taken over,the whole place is full of them.
With petrol now at pound;1.21p a litre,a pint of larger at pound;3.15p ,and a pkt of faggs at pound;5.70p god i cant afford to drive,drink,or smoke.Oh well we can still eat,yea right.A weekly shop used to cost me,(and i live on my own) about pound;20,that was about 3yrs ago,now it cost me about £ioo.Gas and electric prices have risen by 40%,council tax,now cost me pound;1200 a yr for a tiny one bed flat.
I used to be proud of this country,but not any more,
Now, after 41 yrs of full time work , i just cant wait to leave.
Well, it's like that all over the UK now. Mind you, £1200 for Council Tax on a one bedroom flat is a bit outrageous, I'm paying the same for my 3 bedroom place in the South East. As for kids, they think they've amassed all that experience you've acquired over 40 years in just two.
You haven't just had a run in with some Chavs have you?
You haven't just had a run in with some Chavs have you?
Yes the UK seems to be going through a phase that all is not well in the old Kingdom, however unlike many places in the world you can still say almost anything about anyone.
I cjhose to live here not because of the above, although those reasons are valid, but just for a warmer and quieter quality of life, Thailand even with all its problems is abetter place to retire too.
Althought he weather can be damp it is generally warm and the one thing I didn't want to happen was in the winter not being able to go out cos it is very cold and damp.
To turn you back on your own country is hard, I do not live there but it is still my country for all its faults.
Understanding your comments but not neccessarily agreeing with you .
I cjhose to live here not because of the above, although those reasons are valid, but just for a warmer and quieter quality of life, Thailand even with all its problems is abetter place to retire too.
Althought he weather can be damp it is generally warm and the one thing I didn't want to happen was in the winter not being able to go out cos it is very cold and damp.
To turn you back on your own country is hard, I do not live there but it is still my country for all its faults.
Understanding your comments but not neccessarily agreeing with you .
Guns
Thousands of people are wanting to leave the UK,many for some of the reasons Dick has posted above.
For me,its just a rip off place that is completely losing its identity and becoming a nanny state.
Ideal for incoming East Europeans,Africans,Afghans,Iraqis etc. but resident Brits are treated like non-entities now.
Add to that the general unfriendliness of the place and the mediocre climate then its no wonder so many are wanting to leave.
Its OK for a holiday with places like the Lake District,Yorkshire Dales,Stratford-upon-Avon,Oxford,London etc.well worth seeing.
Even if it went pear shaped for me in Thailand,I'd rather chance my arm in other Far Eastern countries like Malaysia,Phillipines and Cambodia before becoming resident again in Britain.
Zidane
For me,its just a rip off place that is completely losing its identity and becoming a nanny state.
Ideal for incoming East Europeans,Africans,Afghans,Iraqis etc. but resident Brits are treated like non-entities now.
Add to that the general unfriendliness of the place and the mediocre climate then its no wonder so many are wanting to leave.
Its OK for a holiday with places like the Lake District,Yorkshire Dales,Stratford-upon-Avon,Oxford,London etc.well worth seeing.
Even if it went pear shaped for me in Thailand,I'd rather chance my arm in other Far Eastern countries like Malaysia,Phillipines and Cambodia before becoming resident again in Britain.
Zidane
Just when I thought our chance had passed,you go and save the best for last.
- Galee
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: July 12, 2005, 5:16 pm
- Location: Was Eastbourne, East Sussex. Now Udon.
You won't regret it Richard. The UK is slipping into the mire and will never be the same.
I've been here over a year now and it's the best thing I've ever done.
One thing I think you might miss though is the beauty of Kent. I'm originally from Kent, Tunbridge Wells, and was back there in May/June and I had forgotten how green it is in the summer. I find the Issan countryside boring in comparison.
I've been here over a year now and it's the best thing I've ever done.
One thing I think you might miss though is the beauty of Kent. I'm originally from Kent, Tunbridge Wells, and was back there in May/June and I had forgotten how green it is in the summer. I find the Issan countryside boring in comparison.
- Galee
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: July 12, 2005, 5:16 pm
- Location: Was Eastbourne, East Sussex. Now Udon.
Spot on Zidane. Agree 100%Zidane wrote:Thousands of people are wanting to leave the UK,many for some of the reasons Dick has posted above.
For me,its just a rip off place that is completely losing its identity and becoming a nanny state.
Ideal for incoming East Europeans,Africans,Afghans,Iraqis etc. but resident Brits are treated like non-entities now.
Add to that the general unfriendliness of the place and the mediocre climate then its no wonder so many are wanting to leave.
Its OK for a holiday with places like the Lake District,Yorkshire Dales,Stratford-upon-Avon,Oxford,London etc.well worth seeing.
Even if it went pear shaped for me in Thailand,I'd rather chance my arm in other Far Eastern countries like Malaysia,Phillipines and Cambodia before becoming resident again in Britain.
Zidane
I have never been in the UK and I don't want to hijack this thread to go off track,but I couldn't help thinking that the same kind of changes are going on throughout the most of the developed countries!
Combined with drastic changes in population with completely different cultural and religious values coupled with liberal theory spouting intellectuals preaching ''Humanitarian issues'',''new family values'',anti-Nationalistic values in favor of World gov't with emphasization on National Historical mistakes and minimum,if any,focus on positive National Historical accomplishments and values,the developed World is going to seed!
Everything has changed with the overreaction to negative events in life!Control is passed to the state that prevents family values and respect from developing!Result is turmoil and ''hoodlum''actions and attitudes!
Example;A parent abuses their child in administering discipline,the power to administer discipline is transferred to the state for all parents,but the responsibilty for the outcome of the childrearing is left to the parents!
The kids grow up with no respect for the parents values,buffered from discipline by the ''Nanny state''!Respect for institutions of all kinds has been replaced by selfcenterness,ruled over by modern selfcentered politicians under the guise of liberal humantarism as they are either influenced by or members of the new politically correct actions!
When in fact they are serving their own agenda of grandiosity,popularity and self importance floating in a pool void of success,but determined nevertheless,keeping the circlejerk progressing with their only defense being,the keeping of others past mistakes in focus while living in denial of their failures:the failing of society in general!!
Combined with drastic changes in population with completely different cultural and religious values coupled with liberal theory spouting intellectuals preaching ''Humanitarian issues'',''new family values'',anti-Nationalistic values in favor of World gov't with emphasization on National Historical mistakes and minimum,if any,focus on positive National Historical accomplishments and values,the developed World is going to seed!
Everything has changed with the overreaction to negative events in life!Control is passed to the state that prevents family values and respect from developing!Result is turmoil and ''hoodlum''actions and attitudes!
Example;A parent abuses their child in administering discipline,the power to administer discipline is transferred to the state for all parents,but the responsibilty for the outcome of the childrearing is left to the parents!
The kids grow up with no respect for the parents values,buffered from discipline by the ''Nanny state''!Respect for institutions of all kinds has been replaced by selfcenterness,ruled over by modern selfcentered politicians under the guise of liberal humantarism as they are either influenced by or members of the new politically correct actions!
When in fact they are serving their own agenda of grandiosity,popularity and self importance floating in a pool void of success,but determined nevertheless,keeping the circlejerk progressing with their only defense being,the keeping of others past mistakes in focus while living in denial of their failures:the failing of society in general!!
Re: A personal View of the u.k,and why im leaving
it seems to me that people all over Europe have exactly the same feeling.richard-px1 wrote:At my time of life,i always thought that i would retire,and enjoy the garden of England,content ,spending my days,fishing,visiting all the places of interest that i always wanted to visit.Enjoying myself,basicly.
But alas im sorry to say,England is now not a nice place to live.To date,there has been 21 death,s,so far this year ,murder,at the hands of knife wielding thugs.Car crime is out of control,they even now make hour long TV shows,about it.The youth of this country,have now become,what we used to call HOODLEMS.From the age of about 10yrs old,girls and boys,all smoke,take drugs,swear like mad,have no respect for anyone or anything.They all know that because of all the political correctness,and the human rights laws,you cant touch them.
Then when they reach their teens,they,re out in the towns nearly every night,binge drinking until the early hours,then the fun really starts.If they end up in hospital,its then the poor nurses,who get attacked or abused,they even make TV shows about that to,and what do the police do nothing.the government are full of hot air,they have,nt got a glue.
The Eastern europeans have all but taken over,the whole place is full of them.
With petrol now at pound;1.21p a litre,a pint of larger at pound;3.15p ,and a pkt of faggs at pound;5.70p god i cant afford to drive,drink,or smoke.Oh well we can still eat,yea right.A weekly shop used to cost me,(and i live on my own) about pound;20,that was about 3yrs ago,now it cost me about £ioo.Gas and electric prices have risen by 40%,council tax,now cost me pound;1200 a yr for a tiny one bed flat.
I used to be proud of this country,but not any more,
Now, after 41 yrs of full time work , i just cant wait to leave.
- Prenders88
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 3482
- Joined: July 7, 2005, 12:51 am
- Location: Udon Thani
I think this Essay by Sir Andrew Green sums up why so many English people are fed up with life in the UK, apart from the lousy weather, high taxes, low quality of life, and a surplus of female munters.
The Great Deception
Saturday Essay
by Sir Andrew Green,
Chairman, Migration Watch UK
Daily Mail, London, 21 April 2007
For many years now, the Government and the liberal Left’s case for mass immigration has rested partly on their repeated assertion that Britain is a melting pot of different cultures - or as they describe it, "a nation of immigrants".
Our history, we have been told, has been punctuated by regular waves of substantial numbers of immigrants to our shores; from the Romans to the Normans, from the Huguenots of the 16th and 17th centuries to the Jews of the 19th and 20th, in-comers have settled here over the centuries and have influenced the racial and cultural make-up of this country for the better.
The slogan was first promoted in Britain in 2001 by the then immigration minister Barbara Roche, who pronounced that ‘"the UK is a nation of immigrants."
This absurd claim will finally bite the dust with the publication today of an important new book - A Nation of Immigrants? by Professor David Conway, senior research fellow for the political think-tank Civitas.
Of course we have immigrants in Britain, nowadays in substantial numbers: yesterday, official figures from the Office of National Statistics revealed how immigration has swollen Britain’s population by nearly 1.5 million just in the decade since 1995.
And, of course, many of them have made, and continue to make, a considerable contribution to our life as a nation. The list of distinguished people is a long one and our country would be different and, very possibly, less vigorous without them.
But that is entirely different from suggesting that we are, by nature, a nation of immigrants - with the implication that present levels of immigration are merely a continuation of past trends, a continuation of the process that has made us what we are.
Any such claim falls apart when examined closely, as Professor Conway has demonstrated. He looked at the scale of previous waves of immigration and found that they were far smaller than the massive inflows which we are now facing.
A certain amount depends on how far back you go in time. Britain has been an island for some 8,000 years - before that, it was connected to mainland Europe.
The earliest population were hunter-gatherers running only to a few thousand. A big increase in population, some 6,000 years ago, seems to have been due to the arrival of new techniques of farming and a consequent boost to food production, rather than to a large inflow of people.
By the time of the Roman invasion, the inhabitants numbered some 1.5 million. The Anglo-Saxons and Danes of the Dark Ages were the most significant subsequent arrivals - yet their numbers were never overwhelming and the population remained roughly at 1.5 million until the Norman Conquest.
For practical purposes, the arrival of the Normans in 1066 is the sensible place to start an assessment of the impact of immigration on our society. To go back further is to get lost in the mists of time.
And when you look at the record of the past 1,000 years, the actual number of people who arrived in Britain from elsewhere is extremely small – even when you take into account the much lower populations of earlier times. Furthermore, in almost every case, their arrival was spread over decades rather than years.
William the Conqueror arrived with only around 10,000 troops of largely French extraction. The total number of Norman settlers in Britain was never more than 5 per cent of the population, but they seized the levers of power and grabbed a third of the land in short order.
In the subsequent 1,000 years, there have been only two numerically significant migrations into Britain - the Huguenots in the 16th and 17th centuries and the Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries. Professor Conway’s work reveals that both were surprisingly limited in scale.
The Huguenots were Protestants driven out of Catholic France by religious persecution. The first wave came in the second half of the 16th century and larger wave followed in the late 17th century.
The total number settling in Britain has been estimated at 40,000 - still only 1 per cent of the population at the time. Many brought valuable skills, some were affluent and their impact was generally beneficial - but they were still a tiny number.
It was another 200 years before the assassination of Tsar Nicholas II in 1881 triggered pogroms in Russia and Poland. Between 1880 and 1914, it is estimated that some three million Jews left Eastern Europe and Russia.
The majority went to the US, while some 150,000 settled in Britain, arriving at the rate of perhaps 10,000 a year.
They were followed in the period between the two World Wars by perhaps 70,000 others fleeing Nazi Germany. It hardly needs to be said that they have made an outstanding contribution to our society.
But again the numbers are tiny. Taken together, they amounted to roughly half a per cent of our population at the time, spread over half a century.
Professor Conway also looked at the Irish migration of the 19th century. This is a quite different case, since as Ireland was part of Great Britain, in full political union with England, Scotland and Wales at the time, but the numbers are interesting.
Irish-born adults living in Britain doubled from 300,000 to 600,000 in the 20 years around the potato famine of the mid-19th century - again, some 1 per cent of Britain’s population at the time, spread over decades. Even by 1880, the Irish community in Britain was only 3 per cent of the population.
The claim that Britain is a nation of immigrants is even more bizarre when you consider that, between 1815 and 1914, Britain quadrupled her population and yet still dispatched more than 20 million people to destinations beyond Europe.
The reality is that we have historically been a country of emigration, not immigration. Indeed, that situation persisted up to the mid-1980s, when immigration first exceeded emigration.
Why all this focus on numbers? First, because they disprove the Government’s claim, so one more falsehood on immigration collapses on examination. Second, because numbers do matter. And the larger they are, the more they matter. And third, because, although it may not be politically correct to say so, culture matters too.
The Huguenots and the Jews were both of European, Judeo Christian culture and so more easily integrated into our society. We are now taking large numbers from cultures very distant from our own and from each other.
Unlike the US - which is, indeed, a nation of immigrants - we have no mechanisms for absorbing such a mix of people.
The concept of ‘multiculturalism’; allowing different groups of immigrants to pursue their own cultural agenda without regard to the indigenous population, was an attempt to avoid the issue. Its disastrous failure was demonstrated on 7/7 in the London tube bombings carried out by men brought up in Britain.
Consider the present position. In the two years 2004 and 2005, foreign immigration totalled about 630,000 or just over 1 per cent of our record population of 60 million.
The only two previous significant waves of foreign immigration in the past 1,000 years - the Huguenots and Jews - each amounted to less than 1 per cent spread over up to 50 years. So the inflow now is some 25 times any previous level of immigration.
Such numbers are, of course, having a huge impact on our society. The growth of our minority ethnic communities illustrates the point. By no means all of them are immigrants since about half were born and brought up here and are as British as anyone else.
But their parents and grandparents were immigrants, so their numbers are some measure of the impact of the immigration on our society over the past half-century. In 1951 ethnic minorities were 1 per cent of our population. They are now 8 per cent. And in state secondary schools they number 17 per cent.
To these, of course, should be added immigrants who are not part of the black and minority ethnic communities - notably, in recent years, the Poles.
Meanwhile, in Greater London one child in two is born to a foreign mother and, in several of our cities, the indigenous community will find themselves a minority before very long.
Small wonder that there is widespread public concern, that two-thirds of us feel that our culture is under threat, and that 83 per cent want firm action from the Government.
Why is it, then, that the Government is deliberately perpetuating the ridiculous myth that we are "a nation of immigrants"? Its track record should tell us the answer: if you can’t solve a problem, spin it.
What has happened - quite simply, indeed undeniably - is that the Government has lost control of our borders. Ministers have no idea who has come, who has gone and who is still here. They were far too slow to tackle the asylum mess which they inherited from the Conservatives.
Then they deliberately and, in my view, crazily made a massive increase in work permits followed by an appalling miscalculation over the likely inflows from Eastern Europe.
So, prevented by political correctness from addressing the root of the problem - which is the scale of immigration - they reached for the spin.
We were repeatedly told that none of this mattered because we are a nation of immigrants anyway - a nation that has successfully absorbed immigration down the centuries. That line has been shot to pieces by Professor Conway.
The Government is now left with its second defence - that all this immigration is beneficial, even necessary, for our economy. Two thirds of the public do not believe this, but the Government continues to repeat it. The public are, of course, right.
Nearly all the benefit of immigration goes to the immigrants themselves - which, naturally, is why they come.
The Government claims that the entire country benefits from the growth in our economy as a result of immigration, but calculations based on its own figures show that the value of this growth to each member of the indigenous community comes to less than 50p a week.
Not a lot, you may think, when you consider the added cost to the economy caused by current levels of immigration - cost in the form of the extra pressure on our public services and our infrastructure.
Indeed, the latest figures issued by the Government itself show that we shall need to build 200 houses a day, every day, for the next 20 years just to house new immigrants - not existing immigrants, but new ones. This takes no account of the illegal immigrants who must number at least half a million.
Fortunately, the public are waking up to the situation. The chattering classes are still not too bothered. They like the cheap nannies, cheaper restaurants and lower inflation that the lower wages of immigrants bring.
But for the working class that means less money and less job security. They are not amused. Indeed, the white working class who are the most directly affected by mass immigration are beginning to desert Labour in droves.
This may be why the Government is at last taking action. Liam Byrne, Barbara Roche’s successor as Minister for Immigration, admitted this week that the country is "deeply unsettled" by the present massive levels of immigration.
Only last month, and just in time for the local elections, the Home Office issued two documents setting out how it intends to restore control of our borders, with better records of arrivals and departures, new visa controls, ID cards for resident foreigners and new measures against employers of illegal workers.
This is all sensible stuff and long overdue - but whether the Home Office have staff of sufficient quality and the resources necessary to achieve their aims remains to be seen.
The truth is that we cannot continue as we are. Migrants are now arriving at very nearly one every minute. We cannot possibly integrate people into our society at such a pace, and we should not be expected to do so. Political correctness must be put aside.
There must be a sharp reduction in immigration. The public must be reassured by clear evidence that the situation is no longer spinning out of control.
The best objective would be to reduce foreign immigration to the same level as the number of British people emigrating each year. This has doubled under the present government to about 100,000 a year.
Such a limit would allow room for those who are really essential to our economy, as well as leaving room for family reunion (under tightened rules). Genuine refugees should not, as a matter of principle, be capped. In any case, they nowadays number fewer than 10,000 a year.
Firm and effective action is now the only way forward. Spin has had its day. And Professor Conway has made a valuable contribution to its demise.
• A Nation of Immigrants? by David Conway is available from Civitas.
Sir Andrew Green is a former British Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria.
© Copyright of Sir Andrew Green
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
Email this article
www.migrationwatchuk.org
The Great Deception
Saturday Essay
by Sir Andrew Green,
Chairman, Migration Watch UK
Daily Mail, London, 21 April 2007
For many years now, the Government and the liberal Left’s case for mass immigration has rested partly on their repeated assertion that Britain is a melting pot of different cultures - or as they describe it, "a nation of immigrants".
Our history, we have been told, has been punctuated by regular waves of substantial numbers of immigrants to our shores; from the Romans to the Normans, from the Huguenots of the 16th and 17th centuries to the Jews of the 19th and 20th, in-comers have settled here over the centuries and have influenced the racial and cultural make-up of this country for the better.
The slogan was first promoted in Britain in 2001 by the then immigration minister Barbara Roche, who pronounced that ‘"the UK is a nation of immigrants."
This absurd claim will finally bite the dust with the publication today of an important new book - A Nation of Immigrants? by Professor David Conway, senior research fellow for the political think-tank Civitas.
Of course we have immigrants in Britain, nowadays in substantial numbers: yesterday, official figures from the Office of National Statistics revealed how immigration has swollen Britain’s population by nearly 1.5 million just in the decade since 1995.
And, of course, many of them have made, and continue to make, a considerable contribution to our life as a nation. The list of distinguished people is a long one and our country would be different and, very possibly, less vigorous without them.
But that is entirely different from suggesting that we are, by nature, a nation of immigrants - with the implication that present levels of immigration are merely a continuation of past trends, a continuation of the process that has made us what we are.
Any such claim falls apart when examined closely, as Professor Conway has demonstrated. He looked at the scale of previous waves of immigration and found that they were far smaller than the massive inflows which we are now facing.
A certain amount depends on how far back you go in time. Britain has been an island for some 8,000 years - before that, it was connected to mainland Europe.
The earliest population were hunter-gatherers running only to a few thousand. A big increase in population, some 6,000 years ago, seems to have been due to the arrival of new techniques of farming and a consequent boost to food production, rather than to a large inflow of people.
By the time of the Roman invasion, the inhabitants numbered some 1.5 million. The Anglo-Saxons and Danes of the Dark Ages were the most significant subsequent arrivals - yet their numbers were never overwhelming and the population remained roughly at 1.5 million until the Norman Conquest.
For practical purposes, the arrival of the Normans in 1066 is the sensible place to start an assessment of the impact of immigration on our society. To go back further is to get lost in the mists of time.
And when you look at the record of the past 1,000 years, the actual number of people who arrived in Britain from elsewhere is extremely small – even when you take into account the much lower populations of earlier times. Furthermore, in almost every case, their arrival was spread over decades rather than years.
William the Conqueror arrived with only around 10,000 troops of largely French extraction. The total number of Norman settlers in Britain was never more than 5 per cent of the population, but they seized the levers of power and grabbed a third of the land in short order.
In the subsequent 1,000 years, there have been only two numerically significant migrations into Britain - the Huguenots in the 16th and 17th centuries and the Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries. Professor Conway’s work reveals that both were surprisingly limited in scale.
The Huguenots were Protestants driven out of Catholic France by religious persecution. The first wave came in the second half of the 16th century and larger wave followed in the late 17th century.
The total number settling in Britain has been estimated at 40,000 - still only 1 per cent of the population at the time. Many brought valuable skills, some were affluent and their impact was generally beneficial - but they were still a tiny number.
It was another 200 years before the assassination of Tsar Nicholas II in 1881 triggered pogroms in Russia and Poland. Between 1880 and 1914, it is estimated that some three million Jews left Eastern Europe and Russia.
The majority went to the US, while some 150,000 settled in Britain, arriving at the rate of perhaps 10,000 a year.
They were followed in the period between the two World Wars by perhaps 70,000 others fleeing Nazi Germany. It hardly needs to be said that they have made an outstanding contribution to our society.
But again the numbers are tiny. Taken together, they amounted to roughly half a per cent of our population at the time, spread over half a century.
Professor Conway also looked at the Irish migration of the 19th century. This is a quite different case, since as Ireland was part of Great Britain, in full political union with England, Scotland and Wales at the time, but the numbers are interesting.
Irish-born adults living in Britain doubled from 300,000 to 600,000 in the 20 years around the potato famine of the mid-19th century - again, some 1 per cent of Britain’s population at the time, spread over decades. Even by 1880, the Irish community in Britain was only 3 per cent of the population.
The claim that Britain is a nation of immigrants is even more bizarre when you consider that, between 1815 and 1914, Britain quadrupled her population and yet still dispatched more than 20 million people to destinations beyond Europe.
The reality is that we have historically been a country of emigration, not immigration. Indeed, that situation persisted up to the mid-1980s, when immigration first exceeded emigration.
Why all this focus on numbers? First, because they disprove the Government’s claim, so one more falsehood on immigration collapses on examination. Second, because numbers do matter. And the larger they are, the more they matter. And third, because, although it may not be politically correct to say so, culture matters too.
The Huguenots and the Jews were both of European, Judeo Christian culture and so more easily integrated into our society. We are now taking large numbers from cultures very distant from our own and from each other.
Unlike the US - which is, indeed, a nation of immigrants - we have no mechanisms for absorbing such a mix of people.
The concept of ‘multiculturalism’; allowing different groups of immigrants to pursue their own cultural agenda without regard to the indigenous population, was an attempt to avoid the issue. Its disastrous failure was demonstrated on 7/7 in the London tube bombings carried out by men brought up in Britain.
Consider the present position. In the two years 2004 and 2005, foreign immigration totalled about 630,000 or just over 1 per cent of our record population of 60 million.
The only two previous significant waves of foreign immigration in the past 1,000 years - the Huguenots and Jews - each amounted to less than 1 per cent spread over up to 50 years. So the inflow now is some 25 times any previous level of immigration.
Such numbers are, of course, having a huge impact on our society. The growth of our minority ethnic communities illustrates the point. By no means all of them are immigrants since about half were born and brought up here and are as British as anyone else.
But their parents and grandparents were immigrants, so their numbers are some measure of the impact of the immigration on our society over the past half-century. In 1951 ethnic minorities were 1 per cent of our population. They are now 8 per cent. And in state secondary schools they number 17 per cent.
To these, of course, should be added immigrants who are not part of the black and minority ethnic communities - notably, in recent years, the Poles.
Meanwhile, in Greater London one child in two is born to a foreign mother and, in several of our cities, the indigenous community will find themselves a minority before very long.
Small wonder that there is widespread public concern, that two-thirds of us feel that our culture is under threat, and that 83 per cent want firm action from the Government.
Why is it, then, that the Government is deliberately perpetuating the ridiculous myth that we are "a nation of immigrants"? Its track record should tell us the answer: if you can’t solve a problem, spin it.
What has happened - quite simply, indeed undeniably - is that the Government has lost control of our borders. Ministers have no idea who has come, who has gone and who is still here. They were far too slow to tackle the asylum mess which they inherited from the Conservatives.
Then they deliberately and, in my view, crazily made a massive increase in work permits followed by an appalling miscalculation over the likely inflows from Eastern Europe.
So, prevented by political correctness from addressing the root of the problem - which is the scale of immigration - they reached for the spin.
We were repeatedly told that none of this mattered because we are a nation of immigrants anyway - a nation that has successfully absorbed immigration down the centuries. That line has been shot to pieces by Professor Conway.
The Government is now left with its second defence - that all this immigration is beneficial, even necessary, for our economy. Two thirds of the public do not believe this, but the Government continues to repeat it. The public are, of course, right.
Nearly all the benefit of immigration goes to the immigrants themselves - which, naturally, is why they come.
The Government claims that the entire country benefits from the growth in our economy as a result of immigration, but calculations based on its own figures show that the value of this growth to each member of the indigenous community comes to less than 50p a week.
Not a lot, you may think, when you consider the added cost to the economy caused by current levels of immigration - cost in the form of the extra pressure on our public services and our infrastructure.
Indeed, the latest figures issued by the Government itself show that we shall need to build 200 houses a day, every day, for the next 20 years just to house new immigrants - not existing immigrants, but new ones. This takes no account of the illegal immigrants who must number at least half a million.
Fortunately, the public are waking up to the situation. The chattering classes are still not too bothered. They like the cheap nannies, cheaper restaurants and lower inflation that the lower wages of immigrants bring.
But for the working class that means less money and less job security. They are not amused. Indeed, the white working class who are the most directly affected by mass immigration are beginning to desert Labour in droves.
This may be why the Government is at last taking action. Liam Byrne, Barbara Roche’s successor as Minister for Immigration, admitted this week that the country is "deeply unsettled" by the present massive levels of immigration.
Only last month, and just in time for the local elections, the Home Office issued two documents setting out how it intends to restore control of our borders, with better records of arrivals and departures, new visa controls, ID cards for resident foreigners and new measures against employers of illegal workers.
This is all sensible stuff and long overdue - but whether the Home Office have staff of sufficient quality and the resources necessary to achieve their aims remains to be seen.
The truth is that we cannot continue as we are. Migrants are now arriving at very nearly one every minute. We cannot possibly integrate people into our society at such a pace, and we should not be expected to do so. Political correctness must be put aside.
There must be a sharp reduction in immigration. The public must be reassured by clear evidence that the situation is no longer spinning out of control.
The best objective would be to reduce foreign immigration to the same level as the number of British people emigrating each year. This has doubled under the present government to about 100,000 a year.
Such a limit would allow room for those who are really essential to our economy, as well as leaving room for family reunion (under tightened rules). Genuine refugees should not, as a matter of principle, be capped. In any case, they nowadays number fewer than 10,000 a year.
Firm and effective action is now the only way forward. Spin has had its day. And Professor Conway has made a valuable contribution to its demise.
• A Nation of Immigrants? by David Conway is available from Civitas.
Sir Andrew Green is a former British Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and Syria.
© Copyright of Sir Andrew Green
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/
Email this article
www.migrationwatchuk.org
Udon Thani, best seen through your car's rear view mirror.
-
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 3516
- Joined: February 28, 2008, 5:31 pm
- Location: On lookout duty ,spotting for snipers .
guns quote [to turn your back on your country is hard ] not for me it wasnt , my country turned its back on me and my kind , ie white, british born working class, some 20 years ago. leaving the U K was not only the best thing ive done in years ,it was also the easiest , for all the reasons richard and zidane have highlighted. if i ever have to leave thailand , britain would not even be on my list of places to settle. very sad i know but thats how i feel about my own country, its a bloody shambles . an asylum run by loonatics . and do you know what , as much as i thought this when i lived there, i never realised quite how bad it really was untill i had left for good .i feel very sorry for any of you still there for whatever reason.
I may be slated for saying this and its my own personal opinion.
I will never look upon a person born in the UK to Indian or Pakistani parents to be British - maybe on paper but he is and will always be Indian or Pakistani (and looks like it)
Just as a Thai wife who gets a UK passport will never be looked upon as British or in extreme cases a farang who gets Thai citizenship will never be looked upon by Thais or other Farangs as Thai. Its a piece of paper thats all.
Its a pyramid effect.
Get just one here and it opens the floodgates for the entire family and the pyramid base expands uncontrollably.
The government keeps saying thats its what the British people want - a multi cultural society. Really ??? did anyone ask us ????????
I will never look upon a person born in the UK to Indian or Pakistani parents to be British - maybe on paper but he is and will always be Indian or Pakistani (and looks like it)
Just as a Thai wife who gets a UK passport will never be looked upon as British or in extreme cases a farang who gets Thai citizenship will never be looked upon by Thais or other Farangs as Thai. Its a piece of paper thats all.
Its a pyramid effect.
Get just one here and it opens the floodgates for the entire family and the pyramid base expands uncontrollably.
The government keeps saying thats its what the British people want - a multi cultural society. Really ??? did anyone ask us ????????
-
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 151
- Joined: July 1, 2008, 10:34 pm
- Location: Namsom
- Contact:
My thoughts exactly.Paul wrote:I may be slated for saying this and its my own personal opinion.
I will never look upon a person born in the UK to Indian or Pakistani parents to be British - maybe on paper but he is and will always be Indian or Pakistani (and looks like it)
Just as a Thai wife who gets a UK passport will never be looked upon as British or in extreme cases a farang who gets Thai citizenship will never be looked upon by Thais or other Farangs as Thai. Its a piece of paper thats all.
Its a pyramid effect.
Get just one here and it opens the floodgates for the entire family and the pyramid base expands uncontrollably.
The government keeps saying thats its what the British people want - a multi cultural society. Really ??? did anyone ask us ????????
dick,p
I can see where you're coming from. I don't have an issue with immigrants obtaining British citizenship provided they fullfill the criteria and understand what it means to be British.Paul wrote:I will never look upon a person born in the UK to Indian or Pakistani parents to be British - maybe on paper but he is and will always be Indian or Pakistani (and looks like it)
How do you feel about Irish people taking British citizenship? They come from another country but they are naturalised Brits, just like Asians and Blacks.
What I find worrying is some immigrants are happy to take the citizenship but have loyalties lying in the direction of South Asia or their religion. For example, the 7/7 and 21/7 bombers, or the chaps that send their adolescent daughters back to Pakistan to marry a half wit from a village near the Afghan border. Even more worrying is the Archbishop of Canterbury mooting the idea that Sharia law has a place alongside existing British law. That will lead to multiculturalism in its truest form where the British way of life is diluted to almost nothing. We then lose our sense of identity.
That said, I'm proud to be a Brit so I'll never see myself cutting ties with the UK.
Lets hope the Thai forums are not full of people complaining about the farangs taking over the place......
As a Brit who is also considering leaving for LOS (even if not full time yet) my reasons do have an element of the reasons given above; Immigration is ok, but there has been an awful lot of it in the last 50 years. Even the Huguenots and the Jews had to suffer a few British 'pogroms' before they settled in - and most were not identifiable one generation down the line. It will take some time to absorb the current lot - and a lot of indigestion has already resulted. It will happen and is happening now, with a high level of intermarriage between the different ethnic groups. That is, as long as the patient does not expire due to over consumption! Anyway, i have done my bit to help absorb them, now it is time to inflict myself elsewhere on the world, as my job has been outsourced and i now have to outwork the Polish to keep a job. And we are running out of space in the UK - every new house means less countryside, less water.
The cost of everything in the UK is ridiculous - even France is cheaper to live.
As a Brit who is also considering leaving for LOS (even if not full time yet) my reasons do have an element of the reasons given above; Immigration is ok, but there has been an awful lot of it in the last 50 years. Even the Huguenots and the Jews had to suffer a few British 'pogroms' before they settled in - and most were not identifiable one generation down the line. It will take some time to absorb the current lot - and a lot of indigestion has already resulted. It will happen and is happening now, with a high level of intermarriage between the different ethnic groups. That is, as long as the patient does not expire due to over consumption! Anyway, i have done my bit to help absorb them, now it is time to inflict myself elsewhere on the world, as my job has been outsourced and i now have to outwork the Polish to keep a job. And we are running out of space in the UK - every new house means less countryside, less water.
The cost of everything in the UK is ridiculous - even France is cheaper to live.
Here in Thailand we have a choice
We can do things the Thai way - or get out.
No amount of moaning or complaining is going to change it and we have to adapt
In the UK - it seems as if almost everyone will bend over backwards to accomodate the multi-cultural demands from non-UK people and are afraid of legal action should they be shown to be discriminatory.
We all know of people who have got promoted at work because they are NOT British and the employers want to be PC
Remember the old woman who had to take away a small china pig from her window as it upset a muslim who walked past her house every day
The man who was told to take the Union flag from his bedroom window as people had complained about it
Its simple - you go to another country because you like their culture and their way of life not to make it similar to your own country.
Except it seems many UK immigrants want to do just that AND milk the system for all its worth - using money that that the hard working REAL Brits have paid into the very system that is supporting Timothy Tamil and his popodom kids next door.
Brits are becoming the 2nd class citizens in their own country as the powers that be, want to be politicaly correct (or are afraid of legal action if they are not)
We can do things the Thai way - or get out.
No amount of moaning or complaining is going to change it and we have to adapt
In the UK - it seems as if almost everyone will bend over backwards to accomodate the multi-cultural demands from non-UK people and are afraid of legal action should they be shown to be discriminatory.
We all know of people who have got promoted at work because they are NOT British and the employers want to be PC
Remember the old woman who had to take away a small china pig from her window as it upset a muslim who walked past her house every day
The man who was told to take the Union flag from his bedroom window as people had complained about it
Its simple - you go to another country because you like their culture and their way of life not to make it similar to your own country.
Except it seems many UK immigrants want to do just that AND milk the system for all its worth - using money that that the hard working REAL Brits have paid into the very system that is supporting Timothy Tamil and his popodom kids next door.
Brits are becoming the 2nd class citizens in their own country as the powers that be, want to be politicaly correct (or are afraid of legal action if they are not)
http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/2008/07 ... table.html
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Unacceptable
Meanwhile, back in the real world. Some prisoners are living and sleeping in toilets because of jail overcrowding, a report says.
HM Inspectorate of Prisons found lags in Doncaster jail were sleeping three to a two-man cell, this having been achieved by putting an extra bed in 'the toilet area'.
Oh, the horror of it!
The Chief Inspector of Prisons, Anne Owers, said this was 'unacceptable'.
Unacceptable to whom, Anne?
Do you think the people they have robbed, stabbed, battered and burgled find it 'unacceptable'?
Why not ask them? Given the fact that virtually no-one goes to prison these days unless they have a very substantial criminal record, you won't have any trouble finding victims.
I'm sure Anne Owers is a lovely woman. There's a great profile of her here.
Her mornings are nice and civilised, as you'd expect:
"I
Tuesday, July 22, 2008
Unacceptable
Meanwhile, back in the real world. Some prisoners are living and sleeping in toilets because of jail overcrowding, a report says.
HM Inspectorate of Prisons found lags in Doncaster jail were sleeping three to a two-man cell, this having been achieved by putting an extra bed in 'the toilet area'.
Oh, the horror of it!
The Chief Inspector of Prisons, Anne Owers, said this was 'unacceptable'.
Unacceptable to whom, Anne?
Do you think the people they have robbed, stabbed, battered and burgled find it 'unacceptable'?
Why not ask them? Given the fact that virtually no-one goes to prison these days unless they have a very substantial criminal record, you won't have any trouble finding victims.
I'm sure Anne Owers is a lovely woman. There's a great profile of her here.
Her mornings are nice and civilised, as you'd expect:
"I
PS If anyone wanted to know - Anne Owers, the boss of UK prisons' former job was..
Director of "Justice" the UK human rights and law reform organisation.
In 2000 she was awarded the CBE for her work on human rights.
Bit of a shame isn't it - she didn't concern herself much with victims of crimes rights.
Inmates really ARE running the asylum called government.
Director of "Justice" the UK human rights and law reform organisation.
In 2000 she was awarded the CBE for her work on human rights.
Bit of a shame isn't it - she didn't concern herself much with victims of crimes rights.
Inmates really ARE running the asylum called government.