[quote="trubrit"]Well what makes a good bar for me? Firstly the price of a beer. I consider a 50% mark up over the wholesale price reasonable. So a small Tiger that retails in most supermarkets for about 26bht, shouldn't cost more than 40bht. Plenty of room to cover overheads there. Having established that, the next important factor. quote]
Hi Trubrit,
If your happy with a 50% mark-up and the retail price for Tiger is 26baht, then you should be happy with a marked-up bar resale price of 52baht per bottle? (26 x 2 = 52 not 40!!)
Another point is you do not know much about business. I mean if you sell Tiger at your price of 40baht from a acquisition price of 26baht the that leaves 14baht to cover costs (overheads; fixed and variable) and profits. This may be enough for a market stall, which sells 40 bottles with a 10baht net profit each and equals 400baht profit a day. Do you even know what costs are associated with running a bar or restaurant?? How much do you live on a month? Work out how many bottles you would need to sell to pay for your lifestyle here? You know people need to make at least a modest living from there profits.
I wish I had time to write more. Comments very welcome from all including business owners.
Udon's most expensive bar
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Grasshopper
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Grasshopper
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Trubrit,
Your marketing and business acumen seems to be as strong as your mathematical ability, see above post! FAIL, not A+.
Your implied testimonial about Lord Cohen and Tesco holds little water in this argument, and is embarrassingly flawed. For starters, even when Tesco was founded it was a multi-million pound enterprise with considerable buying and marketing power, something a small independent business unit does not have. Tesco is a retail outlet for end-users, Tesco buy it cheaper and resell the product for a profit along with maybe 60-100,000 other in-store products lines, all with a microscopic profit margin, which all add up to make a reasonable profit. Also, much of Tesco
Your marketing and business acumen seems to be as strong as your mathematical ability, see above post! FAIL, not A+.
Your implied testimonial about Lord Cohen and Tesco holds little water in this argument, and is embarrassingly flawed. For starters, even when Tesco was founded it was a multi-million pound enterprise with considerable buying and marketing power, something a small independent business unit does not have. Tesco is a retail outlet for end-users, Tesco buy it cheaper and resell the product for a profit along with maybe 60-100,000 other in-store products lines, all with a microscopic profit margin, which all add up to make a reasonable profit. Also, much of Tesco
My wife has been harping at me for 8 years to make a business and buy a house.
She doesn't understand that in a business time is money,her only customers would be a small falang customer base and that the Thais are not going to buy from her and cause a loss of face to the locals they have known all their life!
She is from a small village in Burriram and has no family or real friends up here,so why would she want a house and a business here?
Answer:To not pay rent of 5000 a month and make money:lol:
I think a lot of the falangs go into business w/o understanding business per say!They submit to their wife/GF's wants or they like the idea that they are the ''boss'' of something!
She doesn't understand that in a business time is money,her only customers would be a small falang customer base and that the Thais are not going to buy from her and cause a loss of face to the locals they have known all their life!
She is from a small village in Burriram and has no family or real friends up here,so why would she want a house and a business here?
Answer:To not pay rent of 5000 a month and make money:lol:
I think a lot of the falangs go into business w/o understanding business per say!They submit to their wife/GF's wants or they like the idea that they are the ''boss'' of something!
just my opinion but if you open a bar and expect to make big money I would forget that dream
unless you have some thing to offer like good quality food and very clean environment with out flies mosquitos & dogs & cats running around the area you have a 50 50 chance in success
but if you run the place like a brothel bar finning your customer and pushing the ladies on you to get the bar fine then your a PIMP. I just want to say I have never paid a bar fine
and I had my share of the ladies before my wife moved in and we got married and believe me I was approached by the girls on many occasions. Now you would think I am a cheap charlie but
I am not I just do not want to support PIMPS
unless you have some thing to offer like good quality food and very clean environment with out flies mosquitos & dogs & cats running around the area you have a 50 50 chance in success
but if you run the place like a brothel bar finning your customer and pushing the ladies on you to get the bar fine then your a PIMP. I just want to say I have never paid a bar fine
and I had my share of the ladies before my wife moved in and we got married and believe me I was approached by the girls on many occasions. Now you would think I am a cheap charlie but
I am not I just do not want to support PIMPS
They like drinking their profits :DBKKSTAN wrote::lol: Makes you wonder what their motive is for being in the business :lol:Aardvark wrote:I must admit I have a mate who runs a Bar and I know for a fact that he pays in exccess of Bt10,000 per month for Aircon and Refrigeration alone. Thats a lot of Beer!!
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laphanphon
Marketing, in Thailand, always a topic of interest and ignorance.
As world wide, know your customer base, provide the best product at the best price. Quite simple. There is always the upscale marketing of chic products with designer names aimed at the elite. That is another topic we will leave for Bkk.
Marketing topics are always about bars/restaurants, since an interest to most, or thoughts of some to enter into. Unless you are providing something special, or a certain niche market, with few exceptions, most bars and restaurants are the same here. Whether the stalls in soi Pattaya, now DN. Or the larger ones quite often discussed on the forum. I will use one Thai business who know his marketing skills. MC bbq buffets. Not only successful with their first one, providing quality, variety of food, at a good price. Locations was good, and following the best marketing skill of more money through more outlets, instead of trying to make the same bigger and bigger, which for the one, was a necessity, and worked. Kitaro is an example of not following this marketing plan. Original place was full on weekends, instead of opening another smaller place, went large, expensive, and void of customers, unless I
As world wide, know your customer base, provide the best product at the best price. Quite simple. There is always the upscale marketing of chic products with designer names aimed at the elite. That is another topic we will leave for Bkk.
Marketing topics are always about bars/restaurants, since an interest to most, or thoughts of some to enter into. Unless you are providing something special, or a certain niche market, with few exceptions, most bars and restaurants are the same here. Whether the stalls in soi Pattaya, now DN. Or the larger ones quite often discussed on the forum. I will use one Thai business who know his marketing skills. MC bbq buffets. Not only successful with their first one, providing quality, variety of food, at a good price. Locations was good, and following the best marketing skill of more money through more outlets, instead of trying to make the same bigger and bigger, which for the one, was a necessity, and worked. Kitaro is an example of not following this marketing plan. Original place was full on weekends, instead of opening another smaller place, went large, expensive, and void of customers, unless I
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Grasshopper
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A quality contribution which I am sure all will appreciate, some plain truths (many of them) about marketing and business ownership in Udon. Nice one laphanphon.
I agree with your points about 100% mark-up (or thereabouts) and that selling for upto 80 for a small is perceived as unreasonable by many (including me, I do not see that much value anywhere in Udon).
Fair point on trubrit's resale prices based on wholesale price.
On another note, I am sure that many of the busineses in Udon are of the lifestyle genre, where not much more than basic living standards + a little extra is the primary objective. Not really profit orientated.
Regards.
I agree with your points about 100% mark-up (or thereabouts) and that selling for upto 80 for a small is perceived as unreasonable by many (including me, I do not see that much value anywhere in Udon).
Fair point on trubrit's resale prices based on wholesale price.
On another note, I am sure that many of the busineses in Udon are of the lifestyle genre, where not much more than basic living standards + a little extra is the primary objective. Not really profit orientated.
Regards.
Wow that was a hasty back pedal. As a qualified accountant and a director of marketing,I do know how to calculate the difference between markup and profitability, and for your information Tesco started life in Exmouth St market in London EC1, with a small market stall and eventually took over the shop they were trading outside of, The Home & Colonial store. How do I know? I lived round the corner from there and regularly shopped there.Any way its good to know you aren't looking to make a fortune from a bar in Udon, and your not really profit orientated, at least you won't be disappointed.Grasshopper wrote:A quality contribution which I am sure all will appreciate, some plain truths (many of them) about marketing and business ownership in Udon. Nice one laphanphon.
I agree with your points about 100% mark-up (or thereabouts) and that selling for upto 80 for a small is perceived as unreasonable by many (including me, I do not see that much value anywhere in Udon).
Fair point on trubrit's resale prices based on wholesale price.
On another note, I am sure that many of the busineses in Udon are of the lifestyle genre, where not much more than basic living standards + a little extra is the primary objective. Not really profit orientated.
Regards.
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Grasshopper
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Peddle back yes. I have pulled my head in on the Tesco start-up capital issue, and as a man I am not ashamed or embarrassed to admit that I am wrong about that point. 
Apologies to Trubrit.
I also like the market as the food is great and the place has a nice buzz about it, being a hive of activity. However, it is possible for a market bar/restaurant to offer highly competitive pricing, considering the low overheads and probable tax benefits they have. Clearly offering food, often a higher profit margin product, could also allow lower pricing for beers in such a business. This is a competitive advantage that the businesses in the market location can lever, which is clearly good for them and their market segment of consumers (no pun intended).
It is true what the late Lord Cohen said about 'pile them high, sell them cheap', however, that as a basic business model and marketing strategy is just not suitable for all businesses all of the time. As a marketing specialist you will also be familiar with the concepts of market segmentation, targeting and positioning. These mould strategy through identifying, choosing and serving different customer groups. The point is some people don't want just cheap beer, they are looking for more than just a 'pile them high, sell them cheap' offering. Some people want 'bells and whistles', some want girls, and some want a beer garden et al. I belief it would erroneous to believe that 'pile them high, sell them cheap' is the best answer to all customers needs in Udon. True maybe some. Furthermore, to provide a more balanced argument, it would the logical (and only!) model to follow if that is what all the customers want, I do not belief this to be the case though.
A point I truly agree with is what you are saying about business considerations regarding marketing and accounting that should be properly addressed at the pre-venture stage. Not during the creation or post start-up phases. Historically, market orientated (lack of customer focus) and accounting misjudgements (in particular undercapitalisation, early dept capitalisation and poor cash flow management), all types of preventable error, have cost many an entrepreneurs wallet
Apologies to Trubrit. I also like the market as the food is great and the place has a nice buzz about it, being a hive of activity. However, it is possible for a market bar/restaurant to offer highly competitive pricing, considering the low overheads and probable tax benefits they have. Clearly offering food, often a higher profit margin product, could also allow lower pricing for beers in such a business. This is a competitive advantage that the businesses in the market location can lever, which is clearly good for them and their market segment of consumers (no pun intended).
It is true what the late Lord Cohen said about 'pile them high, sell them cheap', however, that as a basic business model and marketing strategy is just not suitable for all businesses all of the time. As a marketing specialist you will also be familiar with the concepts of market segmentation, targeting and positioning. These mould strategy through identifying, choosing and serving different customer groups. The point is some people don't want just cheap beer, they are looking for more than just a 'pile them high, sell them cheap' offering. Some people want 'bells and whistles', some want girls, and some want a beer garden et al. I belief it would erroneous to believe that 'pile them high, sell them cheap' is the best answer to all customers needs in Udon. True maybe some. Furthermore, to provide a more balanced argument, it would the logical (and only!) model to follow if that is what all the customers want, I do not belief this to be the case though.
A point I truly agree with is what you are saying about business considerations regarding marketing and accounting that should be properly addressed at the pre-venture stage. Not during the creation or post start-up phases. Historically, market orientated (lack of customer focus) and accounting misjudgements (in particular undercapitalisation, early dept capitalisation and poor cash flow management), all types of preventable error, have cost many an entrepreneurs wallet
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Grasshopper
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wazza
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I dont drink in outdoor bars, its too hot and more than happy to pay whatever the extra is to have air con premises.
U cant compare the retail price of a beer at Tesco / 7/11 to the price in a bar. Retail giants have huge purchasing powers, small bars dont.
I sit on a chair in my air con bar , rest my arm on the bar, listen to the music, perhaps order a bar snack, having consumed 3 beers , I then use the toilet provided. Cant do that in 7/11 etc.... Where did that welcomed free chilled cold refresher towel come from ?? , Its certainly not a freebie provided by San Miguel.
Even the price of ur Tesco beer increases, when u get home and stick it in the fridge to cool it,your fridge costs say 200 baht per month to run ?? , or u add an extra 5 baht for the bag of ice at 7/11 .
U cant compare the retail price of a beer at Tesco / 7/11 to the price in a bar. Retail giants have huge purchasing powers, small bars dont.
I sit on a chair in my air con bar , rest my arm on the bar, listen to the music, perhaps order a bar snack, having consumed 3 beers , I then use the toilet provided. Cant do that in 7/11 etc.... Where did that welcomed free chilled cold refresher towel come from ?? , Its certainly not a freebie provided by San Miguel.
Even the price of ur Tesco beer increases, when u get home and stick it in the fridge to cool it,your fridge costs say 200 baht per month to run ?? , or u add an extra 5 baht for the bag of ice at 7/11 .
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beer monkey
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I agree wazza....wazza wrote:I dont drink in outdoor bars, its too hot and more than happy to pay whatever the extra is to have air con premises.
U cant compare the retail price of a beer at Tesco / 7/11 to the price in a bar. Retail giants have huge purchasing powers, small bars dont.
I sit on a chair in my air con bar , rest my arm on the bar, listen to the music, perhaps order a bar snack, having consumed 3 beers , I then use the toilet provided. Cant do that in 7/11 etc.... Where did that welcomed free chilled cold refresher towel come from ?? , Its certainly not a freebie provided by San Miguel.
Even the price of ur Tesco beer increases, when u get home and stick it in the fridge to cool it,your fridge costs say 200 baht per month to run ?? , or u add an extra 5 baht for the bag of ice at 7/11 .
And what with the cost of fuel,,the logistical costs of going to Tesco to get the beer in the first place has to be taken into account, and lets face it you always seem to pick something else up when buying those beers, and its always something that you didn't bargain for.
A very nice gesture but not necessary as your comments were taken as general and mine were not directed at any particular bar but just as an illustration of what seems to be the prevalent attitude to bars in general by the retiree's of Udon. May I wish you good luck in your venture anyway.Grasshopper wrote:Trubrit, as a gesture of goodwill I would like to offer you a beer.
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Grasshopper
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Naturally the terms 'Most expensive" and "Cheapest" are relative to each other. You cannot talk about one without having an opposite measure to compare it with it. Surely?Grasshopper wrote:It seems ironic that the title of this forun is 'Udon's most expensive bar', yet the recent topic of primary interest has been Udon's cheapest bar!!
Well Trubrit in relation to your statement above I say 'Audio, video, disco' - The question is does anybody else?
Sorry , I do not understand the audio, video, disco reference. If you are trying to imply these are add on benefits you will be providing that the night market does not offer, thereby justifying the higher beer price, I am sorry you are mistaken. The NM has a very large projection screen and several strategically placed plasma screen tv's on which it is possible to watch True satellite programmes, premiership football, rugby and grand prix motor racing in season. Thai news via cable link and of course the ever present kareoke singers and concerts.What it doesn't have I must admit is a disco ( who said thank god?), but it has been known for some of the forum members to get up and attempt a few steps, especially when we get round to the 4th one free stage.
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beer monkey
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Grasshopper
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Yes, a comparison is useful with the opposite ends of the price continuum, the comment was a statement of mild ironic humour!trubrit wrote:Naturally the terms 'Most expensive" and "Cheapest" are relative to each other. You cannot talk about one without having an opposite measure to compare it with it. Surely?Grasshopper wrote:It seems ironic that the title of this forun is 'Udon's most expensive bar', yet the recent topic of primary interest has been Udon's cheapest bar!!
Well Trubrit in relation to your statement above I say 'Audio, video, disco' - The question is does anybody else?
Sorry , I do not understand the audio, video, disco reference. If you are trying to imply these are add on benefits you will be providing that the night market does not offer, thereby justifying the higher beer price, I am sorry you are mistaken. The NM has a very large projection screen and several strategically placed plasma screen tv's on which it is possible to watch True satellite programmes, premiership football, rugby and grand prix motor racing in season. Thai news via cable link and of course the ever present kareoke singers and concerts.What it doesn't have I must admit is a disco ( who said thank god?), but it has been known for some of the forum members to get up and attempt a few steps, especially when we get round to the 4th one free stage.
I thought that an intelligent comment would appeal to the wit and intelligence of most readers - 'Audio, Video, Disco' is Latin for 'I hear, I see, I learn'. The Latin comment was made in relation to Trubrit's important marketing related statement about a certain segment of the Udon population, and that I understood what he was saying. Trubrit, I was thanking you for your contribution to our local knowledge.
I get the feeling that someone is taking a position solely for the sake of a discussion or argument, advocatus diaboli, AKA devils advocate...