Young Flower Sellers of Udon Nightlife

[wazza]

I hope this subject may create some responsible debate and thinking to what happens when the Expats buy flowers from the young sellers around Udon at night time.

Last week my Gf and her 2 friends plus an expat friend of mine were having dinner at Nor Mai Restaurent, when the small girls approached our table and asked in english for us to buy some roses.

Now the 2 girls involved 10 and 5 ?? are well know to my self and my gf and many expats here in Udon and their names are supressed for obvious reasons. They have no parents and an uncle / aunt are the carers.

Suddenly the older one starts crying big time, not crocodile tears,, GF intervened and as it happens, she complained to her Uncle who transports them around all night, from 7.pm till 0100 or whenever, that she was hungry and wanted something to eat.

He literally shoved down her face a piece of cold pizza and she was told to stop complaining and get inside the restaurent. He then hit her physically with his sandal. The marks were able to be seen.

GF asked a few more questions and was shocked, they arent doing well in school, sleepy and non attentive, they work 7 nights a week and guess what, they hand over more than 1000 baht a night to this Uncle.

We wanted to order her a meal and allow her to relax for 15 mins, then she showed us where her uncle was outside watching their every move to confirm sales are taking place. He checks their pockets when they go home to make sure its all handed over etc

Last night the younger of the 2 girls approached me in Udon Day and NIght, stating " if u give me 20 baht i go home now " So the scam is getting worse"

This incident has been been bought to the attention of the local authorities, but shoulders are shrugged it seems, The Police will get involved if the kids are assaulted again, but how we will know ?? and what effect will this have on the kids.

A very angry Uncle deprived of his 30000 per month, will take this out on them no matter what?

They can be made " wards of the state " and sent to the Orphange on the Khon Kaen Road,

I suppose we all think we are doing the girls a favour and buying the flowers, but having seen the reality of what is behind it all, it might make a few of us think again.

[Aardvark]

Good Post Wazza, I have never bought from them and never will. In the past I have always told them to go home, which of course they never did

[laphanphon]

i don't give anyone money, too cheap, nah, as stated above, the money doesn't go to where i would like, and the kids get no benefit. better they get a little mistreated, so they learn to hate and leave as soon as able. sad situation. sadly we can't do what we would do in the states, beat the F out ofthe uncle, then call police and report their abuse. uncle is a stretch, more like overseer, term used for boss man on slave plantation of long past.

also, as you found out, they won't accept food or even gum, as the overseer will think they spent their hard earned drinking and gambling money and beat them. anyone know if we can simply distract the uncle then take the kids, put them in the orphanage, saying they don't have parents or family?

since we have no rights here, i would be reluctant to act, as we would probably be arrested or have to pay uncle for some BS reason. so the kids are screwed until old enough to leave and at least work the bars for themselves.

[wazza]

LA

My GF took this one on, as i cant do much as you correctly stated. Thai on Thai so to speak. She does have a good friend who works with Udon Police, who has given some advice also.....

[fun44]

hi i have seen this..as you no i work as a tourist police..i try but you no thai rak thai...when i say something..but i can tell you all if ime out working & i see the thai man hit them i will hit him 100% then hope you lot bring me some food if i go monkey house ..i will look next time ime out for the tuk tuk & i will speak to him..
but all you ex,pats farlang should make a little time to come to the tourist police station & make a complaint about this.? if enough come maybe something might get done..

[BKKSTAN]

It is really a shame that this type of abuse is allowed in Thailand,but Tit!

I don't give money to beggars and children ''sellers'' either ,because as LA says,it doesn't go where you want it too!Plus it only perpetuates the problem by contributing to it!

I don't get involved in Thai ''situations'' at all because ,I know that I am alone in their country without backup and they know it,plus it is not legitimatized by the Thai authorities.That is why other Thais ,that might feel some compassion,don't get involved either.Could be ,you are messing with police ''business'' or stepping on the toes of a ''family'' that might be vengeful for messing with their livelihood!

In Bangkok,beggars and child sellers are organized and obviously sanctioned by the police!

[wazza]

Before any complaint is raised with the authorities, we need to know what law has been broken, Ok assault is obvious, but is there any law that prohibits children of this age being forced to do this.

In developed countries, there are laws in place to protect children and even the child's teachers can enact authorities.

[lee]

If the buying stops then the selling will too.
I think the best solution without getting directly involved is to pin this topic to the top of the forum and mention it in the magazine. Then visitors will be more aware of what's going on and will hopefully be less likely to buy the flowers.
The same goes for the cruel elephant owners. They march them through the town every night stopping at all the restaurants and bars, and use a sharp spike behind their ears to make them scream and catch peoples attention. Personally I never give anything to them or the flowers sellers. If everyone did the same then we wouldn't have this problem.

[RALPHCUSENS]

If the buying stops then the selling will too.
I think the best solution without getting directly involved is to pin this topic to the top of the forum and mention it in the magazine. Then visitors will be more aware of what's going on and will hopefully be less likely to buy the flowers.
The same goes for the cruel elephant owners. They march them through the town every night stopping at all the restaurants and bars, and use a sharp spike behind their ears to make them scream and catch peoples attention. Personally I never give anything to them or the flowers sellers. If everyone did the same then we wouldn't have this problem.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[beer monkey]

Agree...don't buy the flowers it is a novelty when you first encounter it and some do get sucked in....but sad adults(especially the child beaters) sending out little kiddies(what may not even be their own) in their best party dress looking cute so the daft farang go Arrr Ooooo look Arrrr and then the buy the goods...its crap man, have brought food for the elephants before but only when my little boy is with us as he gets something from it and at least the chang gets to eat it...but agree they shouldn't be trudging around the soi's with a sharp stick in their ears...i know tit and their country and all that but we know its not right..if we all stop giving money they would stop coming round, probably best thing to do with-out getting to involved in the 'them and us' thing...a silent protest type of thing.

[Khun Paul]

About 4 years ago there was a law which prohibited these youngsters working at night.
I was dining with a large family group with my first Thai wife when a young lady approached the table, now me and a couple of Thai men i this family spoke to her and ascertained that the man in question was sitting in a car just outside the restaurant ( which was on Non parajak ) All three of us then left the table and went to speak to him, and he eventually fell into Non prajak, ( oh dear) the young girl was handed over to the police and he was ( the man) was arrested.
Now I do not say those actions were legal, the desired effect was that the children were rescued.
Now unless I am completely wrong the law still exists that states it is UNlawful for these kids to do what they do and it is wrong that adults make them
So now we have a basis of discussion anyone throw any more light on the law, we all would I am sure be really interested.
maybe Styeve can follow it up with a quote from the Tourist Police and then we can do a slot on the TV, that willbring on the pains I am sure.

[BKKSTAN]

If the buying stops then the selling will too.
I think the best solution without getting directly involved is to pin this topic to the top of the forum and mention it in the magazine. Then visitors will be more aware of what's going on and will hopefully be less likely to buy the flowers.
The same goes for the cruel elephant owners. They march them through the town every night stopping at all the restaurants and bars, and use a sharp spike behind their ears to make them scream and catch peoples attention. Personally I never give anything to them or the flowers sellers. If everyone did the same then we wouldn't have this problem.

I think it is a grand idea to highlight these activies for visiting and newer falangs!

I hate the abuse of the elephants!The outlawed them from Bangkok years ago when I lived there,but I never saw any enforcemnt at all!I can't imagine that there is so much money involved that the police could be bribed to look the other way,but I could be wrong!

I think that the police just don't want to do the work involved for enforcement because ,I'm sure the a very high ranking law enforcement official,upon seeing the law broken,could make a phone call and initiate immediate action!Maybe the Thai citizenry is in favor of seeing the elephants around!Beats me,another TiT!

[Roy]

I agree 100% with everything that has been said but if a man is capable of sending a 4/5 year old girl into bars until 1 o'clock in the morning what will happen when that child is no longer his Cash Cow?
Could he dream up some other way of making money from her???

[wazza]

Lee

many thanks for the support on this.

I wonder if the bars would put up a nice professionally designed laminated sign, advising of the issues with this.

I saw a sign in BKK only last week at a restaurent in Sukhumitt,

Simply said, " Please dont feed the Elephants " and the 2nd one was on the lines of " dont support the cruel men with the elephants "

[Irish Alan]

Good post Wazza... When I got here first I was in a quandary as to the right thing to do. Then I was advised it was better to refuse so I do now. Apart from this tuk-tuk driving bollocks there are more. On Sunday night seen a woman (wont call her a lady) pull up at centrepoint on a motorcycle and a young girl with a basket of flowers got off. Then there is that kid selling grashoppers made from??? The elephant handler is a right c**t, smacking it on the head with a pointed hammer. Also noticed a dog seller on Sunday packing away the dogs and smacked the dog full force on the head with the top of a cage for it to lie down.

I have to admit to giving to a couple of old ladies and the skinny guy that looks genuinely handicapped with bandy legs a few Baht. That is all.

[Khun Paul]

Yes signs could be a way forward but firstly we need to know what the law actually says on this subject I will make a few enquires if those that have access to learned people could do the same we could then come up with a concensus.

[bigwavedave]

If you buy from the kids they will be happy!!! if you dont they wont!!! its ok to make a stand and say i refuse, but this only works if the whole population of udon agrees wth you... i dont buy from them as it happens but only because i dont want flowers!!! its really a no win battle here... and the ONLY persons gonna be hurt is the kid!!! there will always be someone to cough up money for this trade, so what can you do really... its been illegal for years been going on for years, so whats the end result here??? The ONLY way to make this work is to take the children away from the uncle...there is no other way that is not going to result in those kids getting hurt!!!
so me i would support the kids and the uncle as long as he has possession of them, at least they are being fed... unsavoury as it sounds but TIT....
its the same as the birds in the cage...do you buy them or not????? vicious circle really..

[saint]

i agree dave, if the kids dont sell flowers , then what , whats the uncle going to turn them to , to get his money . i dont even wanna think about it . as much as i hate animals being mistreated , these elephant peddlers look after them as best they can , if you dont believe me , try buying one from them . its very easy for us to judge these people , with our western attitudes and morals , but this is not the west and these things happen all the time pretty much everywhere in the devolping world , including thailand . what we find disgusting and repugnent , is in fact real life for these people ,as cruel and harsh as it may appear to us . who are we to judge them ?

[beer monkey]

I think all you can do is not buy the flowers...leave it to the authoritys to deal with, sure they are well aware of them, they are the ones that should be acting and doing their job. tit. who knows they might even be reading this topic.

[lee]

what we find disgusting and repugnent , is in fact real life for these people ,as cruel and harsh as it may appear to us . who are we to judge them ?

Just because it's a way of life for them doesn't mean it's right or we should ignore it. Whaling is wrong IMO but it's a way of life in Norway and Japan. They could get more money from whale watching but they continue. And it doesn't stop Greenpeace and other organizations protesting, judging or whatever you want to call it. IMO dragging a young child around the bars every night, day in, day out is also wrong, surely the family could make ends meet from another occupation like the millions of other honest people. I think it's no better than selling drugs for quick easy money.
I prefer not to get involved in the local laws and politics, but by refusing to buy flowers is like voting for something you don't agree with. Of course not everyone will see it that way but the less people buying will make it a less lucrative career, and who knows they may switch to something a little more honest, like selling flowers at the market.

With regards to the elephants, I believe the elephant owners were offered 10,000 a month from the government in exchange for their elephants, which by local standards is a pretty good salary. However they refused since they make a lot more money on the streets selling little bags of sugar cane for a hefty profit. FYI if the elephant owners had decided to give up their elephants the government were going to release them into a elephant sanctuary.