Basis for Thai pride?

[BKKSTAN]

IMO,this is one Thai not in denial Bangkok Post:

Re: "Bad habits for a lifetime rooted in education", Letters, November 20.


I resent Bernard Walker saying that Thai kids are "indoctrinated at an early age to believe that Thai citizens, and the country, are always right". But I must admit he is right. I'd also like to add that Thais are ingrained with a sense of silly pride.


We take pride that the country was never colonised. We look down on Burma, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia simply because they have been ruled by Europeans. Only Thailand escaped subjugation and that is the greatest thing that we are proud of. (Being taken over twice by the Burmese, [and the Japanese in WWII] of course, didn't count.)


We are proud that the country holds several records in the Guinness Book: biggest wok, biggest cooking pot, longest noodle string, largest number of people gathered for aerobic dance, tallest air traffic control tower. Moreover, we brag about the country being the hub of everything: fashion, air transport, tourism, entertainment, shopping, food, antiques, international education. We even proclaim the country the "Kitchen of the World" and the "Detroit of Asia."


We live in the world of fantasy that we are the best in everything. We are complacent and see no need to improve our education, technology, economy or standard of living.


MEECHAI BURAPA


CHIANG MAI

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I don't know about this one.

Thai people do have much to be proud of, and they have advanced technologically. They were one of the first countries in Southeast Asia to introduce new farming techniques in the '50s and '6os, and their economic situation has progessed remarkably since I first visited here in the mid-1970s. Progress is all around the Kingdom.

Politically, despite the PAD-PPP squabbling, which still could lead to a mini-civil war, Thailand has advanced. Remember the days of General Sarit loved by all, who had the charisma and the ability to win the lottery every week?

Thais might have a provincial and arrogant attitude that resembles that of some Americans who say, 'Love it or leave it'; however, I have never come across Thais that match some Americans with their in-the-face attitude of the superiority of the United States.

Many people strive for improvement in education and I know one of them in Udon. She works for the Ministry of Education, and has introduced improved testing into the high schools all over the country. Last February she asked me to do some volunteer work and come up with around thirty different tests to improve the standards of the English content in the schools. It was a pleasure to help.

But old traditions die hard, and some people have the power to hold back progress temporarily, but change is coming...just wait a minute. And the writer of this article might be one of those who can help effect the changes.

[Tony Croweater]

Thailand itself might be regarded in much the same way as the European powers in many ways. Isan was settled by the forced relocation of Lao populations throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, due to the dysfunctional nature of the old kingdom of Lan Xang, and the chronic shortage of manpower in Siam at the time. It is worth remembering too that Thailand lost out to France in the imperial contest for the Lao territories in 1893 and the subsequent treaties which followed.

For a good read on the construction of Thai nationalist history, see Thongchai Winichakul's book Siam Mapped. Helps to answer many a question on how Thais view themselves and 'indoctrination' and identification against the alien 'other'.

[laphanphon]

the original editorial seems to fit any country that believes it's own PR, myself a yank, used to think the same about the USA, until i woke up from dreamland. thais, like yanks, don't travel far from home, so are limited to their own PR. very sad indeed, as it is all canned for their control........we're the best, we're the best, and WE are the reason why. so no changes please..............right

[rufus]

I think this thread with its implied criticisms should be removed. Some Thais will find it insensitive.

[Aardvark]

I guess some Americans might too, but lets face it, we all come from the best planet in the solar system so why worry

[laphanphon]

come from the best planet in the solar system

oh contraire, yon milky way breathe, i heard from a friend of a friend, that the intellectuals from the Nognilk Solar System, just past the Galvopa system, Galna system and Sol system, chuckle at our progess. especially our war monging as we don't compare to their capabilities. damn milky mites, still believing in our own PR. :-" :-" :-" :-" :-"

[Irish Alan]

Given that the OP chose to start a new thread as opposed to adding to Letters to the Editor once again adds weight to his belief that he is from the best country on earth. To me this begs the question... Why do you live in this inferior land?

[BKKSTAN]

Given that the OP chose to start a new thread as opposed to adding to Letters to the Editor once again adds weight to his belief that he is from the best country on earth. To me this begs the question... Why do you live in this inferior land?

The fact that I did not see your new topic of Nov.9, as to posting ''letters to the editor'' is the reason I started the new topic!

As far as my belief the the USA is the ''best country'' on Earth,that is my opinion as it seems your opinion is that it is not,so be it!I not sure what your point is except maybe to criticize my opinion,which is OK,but would have more validity if you stated your preference country!

There are several reasons that I have lived in Thailand for over 12 years!Good reasons for me and for my Thai family.One major one has to do with not being able to take my stepdaughter to another country for education and economic opportunity reasons at an age where it would have most benefited her!

I have chose to live in Thailand which is a ''----''country generally with ,generally speaking,ignorant,extremely fearful and xenophobic population rampant with corruption at every level,where 2/3 of Thais polled believe that corruption in gov't and daily life is OK,where the rule of law means nothing except a way for the ruling class to control everyone else,where being ''a guest''doesn't mean welcome but ''allowed'' to be ripped off and taken advantage of,where many falangs find the ''pussy'' that makes them feel like a man and accept their treatment of resentment and predjudice against them in a state of denial unequaled in any other country of the World!Some even ''practicing assimilation'' into the country as if it was a badge of honor to be worn to show they all special(Not wishing any harm to anyone,but it is interesting to see when reality ''slaps'' them in the face).

Thailand is cheap,has generally good year wound weather,my family is from here and I understand how to live as a minority in the country that suits my abilties,abilities and understandings!

That all said,I would like to reinterate my agreement with the Thai persons letter!Sad in the knowledge that he is really powerless over the situation with the lack of ''freedom of expression'' and ''the rule of law'' that exists here!

Now that I have given you more to criticize,maybe somewhere in your criticism ,you might define your beliefs about the subject you are so critical about to me!

[trubrit]

Guess your not interested in the new proposed ex-pats club then Stan?

[BKKSTAN]

For sure!!!Another proposal of ignorance with good intentions

[laphanphon]

damn Stan, that's a pretty negative view..................................though sadly, very accurate, having a moment. it is a love/hate relationship sometimes. luckily, mostly love, but man, a couple moment of frustration, and that hate thing just come out of us. still love the place, but lost quite a bit of respect with that 'reality kicking in', not the people, that's the same everywhere, but the politics and all that goes with it, with emphasis on that corruption poll, quite expected and accepted.

[Khun Paul]

We are all proud of our respective countries with differing enthusiasm, but to say i have live here although the country is c*** is a downright stupid thing to say, one can justify that comment anyway you like but the bottom line is. One lives here because one choses to. now if the country is not as advanced as ones own, but you still have the desire and the aptitude to live here. ok, but you do not in the same breath call it a C*** country.
That gives the impression that the person saying that has low standards and will except anything in order to live.
Most people chose to live in a country for a vast variety of reasons, some, it is the weather, some, cheapness, some just for something different, whatever the reason so be it.
For the local population to trumpet their own success it is ok, they will never agree to publicise their shortfalls many though they be.
We who chose to live here do so with a realisation that Thai's are not the best in many things but their shortfalls are outweighed by many other things some tangible some not.
So lets enjoy the country with all its problems if the Thai's themselves start to knock their country, we must not get on the band wagon, just smile and think oh dear.

[dahkchang]

one thing young thai's are tought is a great respect for their elders something the western world could teach their children

[Irish Alan]

Given that the OP chose to start a new thread as opposed to adding to Letters to the Editor once again adds weight to his belief that he is from the best country on earth. To me this begs the question... Why do you live in this inferior land?

The fact that I did not see your new topic of Nov.9, as to posting ''letters to the editor'' is the reason I started the new topic!

As far as my belief the the USA is the ''best country'' on Earth,that is my opinion as it seems your opinion is that it is not,so be it!I not sure what your point is except maybe to criticize my opinion,which is OK,but would have more validity if you stated your preference country!

There are several reasons that I have lived in Thailand for over 12 years!Good reasons for me and for my Thai family.One major one has to do with not being able to take my stepdaughter to another country for education and economic opportunity reasons at an age where it would have most benefited her!

I have chose to live in Thailand which is a ''----''country generally with ,generally speaking,ignorant,extremely fearful and xenophobic population rampant with corruption at every level,where 2/3 of Thais polled believe that corruption in gov't and daily life is OK,where the rule of law means nothing except a way for the ruling class to control everyone else,where being ''a guest''doesn't mean welcome but ''allowed'' to be ripped off and taken advantage of,where many falangs find the ''pussy'' that makes them feel like a man and accept their treatment of resentment and predjudice against them in a state of denial unequaled in any other country of the World!Some even ''practicing assimilation'' into the country as if it was a badge of honor to be worn to show they all special(Not wishing any harm to anyone,but it is interesting to see when reality ''slaps'' them in the face).

Thailand is cheap,has generally good year wound weather,my family is from here and I understand how to live as a minority in the country that suits my abilties,abilities and understandings!

That all said,I would like to reinterate my agreement with the Thai persons letter!Sad in the knowledge that he is really powerless over the situation with the lack of ''freedom of expression'' and ''the rule of law'' that exists here!

Now that I have given you more to criticize,maybe somewhere in your criticism ,you might define your beliefs about the subject you are so critical about to me!

My country of preference is simply the country I reside in… That is why I reside here. As for the best country on Earth, well I do not feel qualified to make that statement, as I haven’t even visited half of them yet.

[BKKSTAN]

damn Stan, that's a pretty negative view..................................though sadly, very accurate, having a moment. it is a love/hate relationship sometimes. luckily, mostly love, but man, a couple moment of frustration, and that hate thing just come out of us. still love the place, but lost quite a bit of respect with that 'reality kicking in', not the people, that's the same everywhere, but the politics and all that goes with it, with emphasis on that corruption poll, quite expected and accepted.

I agree about theat be very negative,but positive or negative,reality is what it is.Acceptance is the key to dealing with it,denial is the setup for shock and possible disaster,IMO!Especially when you listen to the stories of those that get their ''reality shocks''either from denial or early on ignorance!

When I refer to the USA as ''the best country on Earth'',I think and see it that way in reference to ''opportunity'' for those that are willing to strive and sacrifice for their goals as the rule of law prevails in most areas,this is just the opposite in Thailand!

But for a place to retire,Thailand is hard to beat pricewise and weatherwise!It is also nice to enjoy the attention of young bueaties for whatever reasons,plus it is pleasant on the eyes.As far as the people are concerned,I am not interested!I don't like their ''culture'',although I find it easy to live with and convenient most of the time.I,personally,find few expats that I am interested in either,but thankfully there are some!Whatever these statements make others think of me is fine with me also because I am OK with me!

[aznyron]

I like you Stan I don't care what your politics is or how you feel about Thailand or the USA
IMHO the USA needs a good cleaning starting with lobbyist and corporate America
as for thailand I really don't give a dam it only a place I am a guest in and spend my
pension which they steal about 25% before I get it

[rufus]

You guys are kidding me, right? I'm Australian and i got 29 of these right.

[bumper]

It's funny but I have picked up an amazing thought of late in reference to my choosen home and people. I beginning to think they are very selfish people. I see in he way yhey drive, shop, you name it. Considering it's Budhist country, yuo would think just the opposite. Respect for elders maybe in their own famalies, bit I think that is where it stops.

You know a several months back I was having to walk with a cane. One time I remeber I was in severe pain, at Lotus all the benches were filled with teenagers. Not one offered me seat. That is not how I understand respect for elders, but what the heck I'm not Thai.

Thai's give the beggers, they give to the Wats. But, what is the motivation is it soemthing they do out of kindness or is to make merit.

By the way this is not ectched on stone a thought in progress, I could be very wrong.

Why am I still here cause none of that matters to me. They don't ive by my standards nor do I theirs.

Simply an observation.

[BKKSTAN]

Another Thai speaking out publicly on the money,IMO!''Clouded by we are the best'' and the assimilated expat says''Its their culture and we should respect it''!

Thais lack ability to take constructive criticism
Published on November 24, 2008



Re: "The best dream world in the world", Letters Nov. 21



I do not resent but am grateful to Bernard Walker's criticism on our indoctrinated system of education in upholding almost blindly our ego. Meechai Burapa's response with supportive examples was masterful and hit on our fundamental weakness.


We, Thais, completely lack ability for self-examination and self-criticisms, not to mention criticisms from others. It is always clouded dreamily by the statement that we are the best. Hence, our thought process advances at a snail pace. I remember one Scottish economist warned us pre-1997 financial crisis of the impending financial storm due to our debt situation. One leading official retorted by condemning that economist for talking out of his hat and threatened to deport him for damaging Thailand's "strong" economic force. If you want to be friendless, just try to be frank in any meeting and see whether you will ever be invited back.


SONGDEJ PRADITSMANONT


BANGKOK