Stop criticizing PAD

[BKKSTAN]

IMO,this letter to the bangkok Post says it perfectly,get right to the heart of the problem!

Stop criticising PAD


I deeply disagree with the criticism of the PAD and with the sensationalistic and catastrophic editorials in your newspaper and others. Furthermore, I strongly categorise the complaints of those people that have been stranded as a consequence of the closure of the airports, as selfish.


Those who travel to Thailand to enjoy the best pleasures in life a developing country offers at the cheapest prices, have no right to complain about the actions of those who live in the country and who are suffering the ongoing unfairness and corruption of an inept government. =D> =D> =D>


The reason Thailand is not prospering economically is not the PAD. The reason is the lack of education of the masses who are swindled into voting for such an inept body of legislators such as those in the PPP, who want to keep the masses uneducated.
=D> =D> =D>

The reason foreign companies do not want to invest in Thailand is because they cannot trust the rule of law in Thailand. Foreign and domestic investors cannot rely on a government which tries to change the laws in order to allow its officers to steal with impunity and which, instead of pursuing at all cost convicted fugitives abroad, tries to make them heroes and continue vouching for them.


Yes, the PAD's actions are costing the country and several sectors a lot of money, but to say that it will take Thailand probably years to regain the confidence of foreign tourists is an absolute exaggeration. The tourism sector will recover quickly.


The PAD is composed of people who love Thailand and the monarchy and who are willing to sacrifice months of their private lives sleeping on floors and going to public toilets to uphold the values we all cherish. The PAD stands against corruption. It is accused of disrupting the country. Well, every social movement that has ended tyranny, corruption and despotic rule in different parts of the world has been, by nature, disruptive.


Enough with the selfishness of those who are bothered because they cannot go back to their homes. At stake is the future of the people who live in Thailand, and I can feel no sympathy at all for those who, after a very relaxing, cheap vacation full of all the pleasures they cannot have at home, have to spend a couple of extra days in Thailand.


Enough with this criticism of the PAD!



ALEX RUIZ


Singapore

[jackspratt]

ALEX RUIZ

Singapore

[BKKSTAN]

Add this letter and my position is summed up completely!


-----



Worth it if it puts a stop to 'Thaksinism'


I'd like to offer a different perspective than the generally anti-PAD letters of Sunday. For what it's worth, my connections to Siam are more religious and cultural than economic.


The key question in the current impasse is whether the long-term imperative to keep Thaksin out of Thai politics trumps the short-term disruption of the PAD protests!
.


Further, given the skill with which Thaksin has manipulated, abused and weakened an as yet incomplete democratic system, could less aggressive tactics that the PAD has employed bring about a permanent retirement of Thaksin?


Many of my Thai friends answer the first question with a conditional ''yes''. They have seen where Thaksinism could take the country. Thaksin's version of ''democracy'' is a sham. His corruption has been unprecedented. He ignores court rulings and lashes out with hypocritical accusations of those who don't do his bidding. His willingness to encourage violence far exceeds that of the PAD. If anyone is responsible for the months of protest and the closure of the airports, it is Thaksin and the gang that works for him.


The second question is open to debate. Nobody can really answer it with certainty. The PAD is doing what it can to effect their goal. The PAD leadership, whatever its weaknesses, has kept its people generally non-violent, despite numerous attacks on it, largely by pro-government rowdies. Violence provoked by govt MPs is worse. Nor do they seek power for themselves. Nobody else has been able to develop a more moderate and successful approach. Such are the realities of Thai society today.


In short, given the Thaksinites' intransigience, the PAD has no better option than what it has been doing. This is most unfortunate, but is a lesser evil than Thaksin returning as Emperor.



SANTIKARO

[jackspratt]

Stan I reckon keeping Thaksin out of Thai politics is an admirable goal.

However, my belief is that the primary aim of the PAD is to entrench the system that existed prior to Thaksin ie the Bangkok elites maintaining ALL the power, and exclusive access to the honey pot. They (and their very high level sponsors) are most concerned about what is going to happen to the structure when someone is no longer with us.

[AussieBoy]

Time for a thai republic

[BKKSTAN]

I understand where you are coming from here Jack and I heartily agree!But the ''education'' and awareness from these protests will eventually sink in ''some'' heads for sure and help change some of the past mistakes going forward!
The problem is that the Nationalistic groups have a hard time accepting that this 21 rst century and need to educate the people to more modern circumstances and ideas!

The Thaksinists have to realize that full blown capitalism with inherent corruption is not the best interests of the country,although I sometimes wonder if the interests of the country ever enter their mind!
Although,I believe that expats were better off under Thaksin,his pace towards dictatorship was rampant and I am confident in my beliefs that eventually our situation would have worsened as would have the welfare of the people!Whatever the perceived gains to Isaan,his and his cronies finacial gains and direction would have eventually raped the country.

My greatest hope is that the Nationalists will regain power and will recognize their past failings in helping the rural folk gain from education,infrastructue projects and less corruption!

[Farang1]

Am I missing something, here? PAD (People's Alliance for Democracy) wants the duly elected government to be dissolved and they want to establish a government where 70% of the lawmakers are hand picked by them. What little I remember from my high school political science, that doesn't sound very democratic.

They also say that, if the red shirts would listen to Thai TV channel 9 (owned by the leader of PAD) The would get the unbiased truth. Yeah, right.

[jackspratt]

Yes you are missing something Farang1. I have read nowhere that the PAD would be hand picking the appointed members. Rather it would be done by groups of their peers eg a body of farmers would appoint farmer representatives, a body of architects would appoint architects etc, etc.

A silly idea in my view, but not quite in accordance with your understanding.

[Farang1]

OK. Still doesn't sound like democracy to me.

I only get bits and pieces of info here in Iraq except for the editorials I read here.

[ISSAN_NISSAN]

This letter to the bangkok Post says it perfectly,get right to the heart of the problem!

[quote] The reason Thailand is not prospering economically is not the PAD. The reason is the lack of education of the masses who are swindled into voting for such an inept body of legislators such as those in the PPP, who want to keep the masses uneducated.

Yes, the PAD's actions are costing the country and several sectors a lot of money, but to say that it will take Thailand probably years to regain the confidence of foreign tourists is an absolute exaggeration. The tourism sector will recover quickly. [quote]

Let us not forget another reason that Thailand is going to suffer economically is the current meltdown of the worlds economy.

Thailand is going to get hit with a double wammy between the eyes.

Not so sure that the economy will recover quick, that will depend on how quick the rest of the world will recover.

I also read in the Bkk Post or The Nation that 60% of Thais are not happy nor support the Red or Yellow shirts. That is over half the population saying they are not happy with what is going on.

Interesting times

[BKKSTAN]

Am I missing something, here? PAD (People's Alliance for Democracy) wants the duly elected government to be dissolved and they want to establish a government where 70% of the lawmakers are hand picked by them. What little I remember from my high school political science, that doesn't sound very democratic.

They also say that, if the red shirts would listen to Thai TV channel 9 (owned by the leader of PAD) The would get the unbiased truth. Yeah, right.

Don't get so hung up on the name and the word ''democracy''!With Thaksin we were on a path od dictatorship under the guise or cathall word ''democracy''.PAD represents amore responsible democratic direction than Thaksin represents.one person ,one vote is not nearly all there is to the principles of democracy!

One should realize that democracy as practiced in Falangland does not necessarily fit the cultures of other peoples and their countries.Great examples are on display now in the Middle East and much of South Asia that have a strong religious bent in their culture!I would say Thailand fits in that category as Buddhism rules and reigns in most of the laws and decisions of Thai culture!

[BKKSTAN]

This letter to the bangkok Post says it perfectly,get right to the heart of the problem!

The reason Thailand is not prospering economically is not the PAD. The reason is the lack of education of the masses who are swindled into voting for such an inept body of legislators such as those in the PPP, who want to keep the masses uneducated.

Yes, the PAD's actions are costing the country and several sectors a lot of money, but to say that it will take Thailand probably years to regain the confidence of foreign tourists is an absolute exaggeration. The tourism sector will recover quickly.

[/i]

Let us not forget another reason that Thailand is going to suffer economically is the current meltdown of the worlds economy.

Thailand is going to get hit with a double wammy between the eyes.

Not so sure that the economy will recover quick, that will depend on how quick the rest of the world will recover.

I also read in the Bkk Post or The Nation that 60% of Thais are not happy nor support the Red or Yellow shirts. That is over half the population saying they are not happy with what is going on.

Interesting times

The middleclas of Bangkok and other major centers around tourism and manufacturing will trul feel the brunt of the economic downturn!

But one should remember that the ''heart'' of Thailand is ''mai pen rai'' and ''sabai sabai''!People really need very little to survive in Thailand,weather and actual costs are very low here!Many ''poor'' only understand their poorness as they compare themselves to the middle class and rich.The rich are very rich here and can ride out the downturns,the poor are less effected,but lose most ''luxuries'',no beer only lao kao

If you look at family businesses here compared to other places,it is amazing how large their inventory can be during bad business times without any need to discount because their daily costs are so low!

Have you never wondered how Thais can raise prices as their business slows down! Just the opposite of most countries!

You look at used car inventories,empty foreclosed houses,outstanding loans etc. etc.without an urgency involve because basic overhead is so cheap!

Thailand will have a major ''setback'',but unlike most countries ,they will ride it out without to much urgency except for the middle class and falang investors that will take the big hits.

[laphanphon]

there is not democracy here, only the elite rule for themselves. if caught stealing from the cookie jar, which all have been, one way or the other, and don't leave when asked, a coup takes place, 18 since democracy was born, 12 successful, and with one exception, i don't think any PM finished his term in office. democracy................hmm, that is a stretch.

as that poll states, corruptions is expected and accepted. until that changes, nothing will. surely not in our lifetime. it runs too deep, and the elite is in control, and the masses are kept uneducated simply for that reason. anyone with a 3rd grade education from a western country is equal to 2/3 of the population here. if you can count to 100, and sign your name, you pass the literacy test. remember, 96 %, give or take are literate here, according to some organization. what one school did they survey for that figure. when Gem was in 1st grade at st mary's, NOBODY in her family could help her with her homework, and everyone under 25 yrs old had at least a 6 grade education, and couldn't do basic math past simple addition.

[Kaiheitai]

You might hate Thaksin but lets face the naked truth is that PAD doens't like out of town elites dipping into the Krung Tep power cookie jar... they were more than satisfied fighting amongst themselves over that these past few decades, of course they're pissed when some northern yokel pandering to a bunch of culturally inferior brown people from Issan walks on their turf

viva la republica Thai?

[Kaiheitai]

My suggestion to ending the political crisis: if Sondhi really is ready to die for his cause instead of sacrificing a bunch of old grannies and kids he should just man up and go out SEPPUKU style like good ol' Japanese nationalist Yukio Mishima, and Chamlong can deliver the final blow.... thats real nationalism Sohndi is just a

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Give me a break !!! There is no way that PAD represents anything approaching democracy.

Try fascism and you might come closer to reality.

PAD refuses to accept the results of elections and decries vote-buying. However, look at how their favourites, the Democratic Party, acquires the vote in the south of Thailand.

Do you think that PAD can understand anything about an opposition voice in politics. For PAD, it is their way or the highway, and they will bite and scratch until they get their way with little thought about the country or the 'people' they supposedly represent although they have not been elected for anything.

These are self-serving elitists with no regard for the law.

Their policy is follow us the Sino-Thai leaders of society and if you do not, you will be punished.

It seems at times to be a struggle between the old elites of Thai society (PAD and their unnamed supporters) and those people who want to be the new leaders of a more open society.

Money and power and who wields it is at the centre of the dispute.

Who is to say that Chamlong and Sondhi and the other Sino-Thai elites are any smarter at voting than farmers in Isaan and the north? PAD is very elitist and discriminatory.

To think that PAD and its supporters are any less corrupt than Thaksin is laughable.

To think that PAD and its supporters will do anything for the peasants is ridiculous.

Note that the judiciary seems to be in the pockets of the unmentioned backers of PAD.

Thaksin is hardly any better, but at least he did something for the people, which is more than this backward-looking bunch of elitist thugs can say.

As far as PAD goes, I agree with the Queen of Hearts, 'Off with their heads'.

NEVER STOP CRITICISING PAD !!!

[virginprune]

There have been numerous comments posted concerning the current crisis in Thailand, here I would like to put in my four pence worth:-

My g/f is a PPP supporter and does take umbrage at the PAD for many reasons, not least because she does not like to be classed as an uneducated rural dweller and to be accused of not loving an individual. I would imagine that many of your partners feel the same. I can state here that she is a very well educated woman who currently holds a fairly good position as a government officer. She has given me many of her thoughts about this situation and to why she supports the government. For her she has seen the good that has happened to the rural communities from the time of Thaksin to the current administration. She also acknowledges that there has been corruption but like all democracies there is no perfection.
As for the PAD their idea of democracy appears to be “if you don’t vote for us then you should not be eligible to vote at all” seems like a funny sort of democracy to me! I believe that the truly uneducated are the cannon fodder that they have brought into the airports, people who will believe anything so long as there is a baht on offer. The accusation that PAD makes about PPP supporters at election time! My g/f has denied that she has ever been approached with a bribe at any election, she votes on what she sees are the best policies for the Thai people and not for whats best for the elitist minority.

These are just my thoughts and I do not profess to know it all, thank you!

[Kaiheitai]

Some studies (Albritton and Prabudhanitisarn, 1997; Albritton, et al., 1995) indicate that these differences between urban and rural constituencies disappear when controlling for education. However, secondary analysis of data gathered by Logerfo (1996) indicates that, even controlling for education, significant differences between Bangkok and rural areas remain. More recent research (Albritton and Bureekul, 2001; Albritton and Bureekul, 2002) supports the latter view. Respondents from Bangkok and rural areas differ markedly on a variety of indicators, such as support for democracy, criteria for choosing candidates in elections, and tolerance of corruption. The data in this study provide the basis for a re-examination of the fundamental cleavages between urban and rural dwellers in support for democracy and democratic values occurring after a year under a new government of the Thai Rak Thai Party.

http://www.asianbarometer.org/newenglis ... /no.28.pdf

This National Taiwan University and Academia Sinica seems to back you up on your assessment, I was just talking with a BKK girl today who was trying to make "they're uneducated simpletons" argument... its BS, people are pretty irrational as individuals but in aggregate they can usually make fairly informed decisions... eight years of Bush being the exception of course PAD plans to reeducate the rural populace, wonder if well see a Khmer Rouge emptying of Udon as the PAD overlords preform this vaunted reeducation

[Aardvark]

Not while I can still shoot a Gun

[Udon farang]

Regardless of the intention of the PAD, and whether their cause is noble or not, they should not resort to anarchism to make their point. The lawless actions of the thugs who took over the 2 airports is appalling. This is something to be expected of a "third world" country. I expected better from Thailand.

There is a saying I employ occasionally, and this is one of them. "Don't make your problem my problem". The Thai's have now done that to me, and to 100's of thousands of other impartial world citizens as well.