'I'm not qualified to land plane', pilot tells passengers

[donthani]

Posted 11 hours 16 minutes ago

A British passenger plane was forced to turn back minutes before landing in Paris because the pilot of 30 years' experience was not qualified to land in fog, an airline confirmed.

Speaking over the address system as the Flybe flight approached Charles de Gaulle airport, the pilot announced to startled passengers "I am not qualified to land the plane" and turned back to Cardiff.

A spokeswoman for the low-cost airline said the pilot was "an experienced aviator with more than 30 years commercial aviation experience flying a number of different passenger aircraft types."

"He has relatively recently transferred his 'type-rating' from a Bombardier Q300 to a Bombardier Q400 and has not yet completed the requisite low-visibility training to complete a landing in conditions such as the dense fog experienced in Paris Charles de Gaulle," she said.

"The captain therefore quite correctly turned the aircraft around and returned to Cardiff; a decision which the company stands by 100 per cent."

One passenger, 29-year-old Cassandra Grant, said she had missed a job interview in the French capital as a result.

She told the South Wales Echo newspaper "Twenty minutes outside Paris, the captain said, 'Unfortunately I'm not qualified to land the plane in Paris. They are asking for a level two qualification and I only have a level five. We'll have to fly back."

"The whole thing beggars belief. If I had not been on the plane, I would not have believed it."

The Civil Aviation Authority described the incident as "quite unusual but probably not unheard of."

"I guess he thought when he initially took off that conditions would be suitable for him to land," a spokesman said.

"There are different classifications of aircraft and when an aircraft is updated, pilots who have flown an older version have to completely retrain.

"Different climatic conditions like fog require a certain level of skill and he probably didn't have the level of training required for this particular aircraft."

- AFP

http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/12/ ... ion=justin

[Frankie 1]

When flying back to Holland two months ago I had the same problem with Eva air.
We flew over Amsterdam and over Schiphol airport and everything was clear there was only some light fog at the airport, but not much.
Everybody was amazed that the airplane kept on flying straight, then the captain announced that he couldn't land at Schiphol because of the bad weather conditions.
What bad weather conditions? we fxxxing just flew over it.
We flew to Brussels, landed there, had to wait inside the airplane for a couple of hours (after a 12 hour flight), and then flew back to Amsterdam, 3 hours late.

[mortiboy]

Fog can be only a matter of metres high and may be dense. But looking down at it from a height it can look a slight fog. and quite clear.
I had a flight to Gatwick airport.As I was in the jump seat,I was able to be in contact with the crew.He said we have fog here,we will divert to Heathrow.Looking down looked clear. Could see runway lights.
He made an attempt to land, but overshot the fog was really dense.

[bluejets]

"A spokeswoman for the low-cost airline said ....... "

The old story... you get what you pay for.

[mortiboy]

As the saying goes......"not my job!"

[Bandung_Dero]

IMO the pilot is to be commended for his honesty and integrity, I would have to guess the co-pilot had not received any training either. The airline most certainly knew of their certification status and should not have scheduled them for that flight even if there was the slightest doubt.

The cowboys in Indonesia and at 12-Go would have gone for it!

Edit: Typo

[jetdoc]

Cat. 3b landings = 0/0 (RVR 0, ceiling 0) The Airline I worked for had a program certified as LLM (Lower Landing Minimums). The flight crew, tech's, and the A/C all have to be qualified before a cat3b landing can be initiated. Interestingly the rule stated that the flight crew was not allowed to touch the controls during the 3b approach (only on roll out) except to make a go-around, consequently the tech's and the equipment they certified make the landing;o)

[lepidoptra]

Cat. 3b landings = 0/0 (RVR 0, ceiling 0) The Airline I worked for had a program certified as LLM (Lower Landing Minimums). The flight crew, tech's, and the A/C all have to be qualified before a cat3b landing can be initiated. Interestingly the rule stated that the flight crew was not allowed to touch the controls during the 3b approach (only on roll out) except to make a go-around, consequently the tech's and the equipment they certified make the landing;o)

I wish I could translate this post into something that I could understand. I'm sure then that my little radio control plane purchased near Robinsons wouldn't have nose dived into the ground and cost me 3000 baht

[beer monkey]

All sounds odd to us that know little about this stuff, we just put our lives in their hands so i would have no choice but to go with their judgemant/experiance...but it does sound a bit like a Formula 1 driver not being allowed to go over 100mph or race in the wet.....I remember once a THAI flight turned back to London 20 minutes into a flight as something was wrong, plenty of passengers cursing the crew/pilot as they would be delayed..for 12 hours or more, but safety must come first.

[Pakawala]

BM sez,:odd to us that know little about this stuff, we just put our lives in their hands". During my 22 years of service with the US Navy I had well over 400 aircraft carrier based launches and landings... always in the 'back seat'. My job was only important after the catapult launch and before the arrested landing, the rest of the time I was 'in their hands'. I did my job and they did theirs.

[westerby]

During my 22 years of service with the US Navy I had well over 400 aircraft carrier based launches and landings... always in the 'back seat'.

Which aircraft were you back seating in?

[Pakawala]

Navy E-1, E-2, S-2, and S-3 - the 'E' models were radar units with the large radome on the roof, the 'S' models were ASW aircraft. All my time was during the 'Cold War' days... 1958 through 1980. BUT I'M NOT REALLY THAT OLD - AM I?

[westerby]

You mean these cabs? I got confused with the C-2s. I did a couple of Nimrod deployments to Sigonella during the Balkans thing - used to watch the C-2s (I think) fly in from the Carrier Group a couple of times a day.

[Pakawala]

The C-2 is the same a/c as you've pictured above but without the radome and electronics onboard. It is used for carrying passengers and cargo to and from the ship (often referred to as the COD - Carrier Onboard Delivery).

Aaahh, those were the days. [-o<

[westerby]

Going back to the topic, I don't think I can ever remember a military jockey saying, 'sorry, I'm not qualified to land in this kind of weather' because their cats were always up to date. But I was forced to sleep over on a landaway when my home airfield was clagged in and the cloud ceiling was down to about 50 feet and the powers that be wouldn't let our helicopter land there. It's probably more serious for airlines because there's money involved and customers to compensate, I guess - a bit of a goof up on the airline's part.

[beer monkey]

Going back to the topic, I don't think I can ever remember a military jockey saying, 'sorry, I'm not qualified to land in this kind of weather' because their cats were always up to date. But I was forced to sleep over on a landaway when my home airfield was clagged in and the cloud ceiling was down to about 50 feet and the powers that be wouldn't let our helicopter land there. It's probably more serious for airlines because there's money involved and customers to compensate, I guess - a bit of a goof up on the airline's part.

Yeah That Clagging is a right pain in the arse.

[westerby]

Yeah That Clagging is a right pain in the arse.

Oh it is for sure, BM. You're on landaway and can't get home because the weather's dogsh*t. The aircrew are gagging to fly in to the home airfield and the ground crew are sulking because they've got another night away from their ugly wives after two weeks of deployment with Mr. Westerby. Or even worse, finishing your four months tour of the Falkland Islands only to find out your Gozomie bird had broken down at Ascension Island. Great days....
Being delayed never worried me personally, though. Which was why I was pretty laid back when Eva postponed my trip home for 8 days the other week (thank you Padders).

[Frankie 1]

I still don't understand.
First of all, these modern airplanes can completely land on auto pilot, fog or no fog.
And secondly, if an airplane wouldn't be able to land because of fog, then they'd have to shut down the airport for half the year, because Schiphol airport is covered in fog a lot and it's one of Europe's most busy airports.
Or, there is something else they don't tell us about, like shutting down runways because of emergency landings, mistakes, technical problems, or other problems that don't end up in the newspapers.

[westerby]

I still don't understand.

You're right Frank, modern airliners can land in fog but in this case, the pilot did not have the qualification/categorization to land that particular type of aircraft in fog so he had to fly home. Which is a goof on the airline's part. See Jet Doc's explanation above.

[beer monkey]

Speaking of 'Goofs'....i hate to say it westerly but that photo of you sure looks 'Goofy' to me in a harmless fun 50/60's American sort of way of course, Have you ever worked in the local supermarket..?.....Anyway, So the pilot didn't hab the right paper work to put it on Auto P, i would hazzard a guess that this is not easy to obtain, with things working nowadays on the helical friction principal...also when you get to the clagging stage then i fear many will have something to complain about(what say you westers..?),Combine Clag with Fog and the lack of experiance with the workings of the Helical friction principal it could spell a rough ride but until then we should all be grateful of a safe landing no matter where it is and the rules and regs that are in-place to this present day....