Global warming hits all antarctica

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stattointhailand
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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by stattointhailand » February 9, 2009, 12:24 pm

Rick, how can ANYONE trust a scientist? :lol:

They spend decades telling us that some artifact or another is xxxx years old because "We have done this test and that test, and they all agree, so it has to be true".
Then along comes another system (carbon dating), and suddenly, all the previous "truths" are thrown out of the window, and in many cases "proved" to be hundreds, if not thousands of years out.
How long will it be before carbon dating mark 2, or another completely independent system is found, that disproves all the dating that we have now?

And to top all that, most of their "findings" utilise computer models :yikes:

How can you trust ANY information that requires a computer programmer to produce the "Base" on which all your studies and observations are to be formed?



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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by BKKSTAN » February 9, 2009, 12:25 pm

There is no doubt that we are experiencing global warming and a rapid ice melt!

Whether or not we are the cause of it,is very unclear!

many reports and debates ,I have heard claim that if the World as a whole spent 2% of their GNP annually ,it would not lower the temp anymore than 1 degree Farenheit,probably less,which is negligible!

Add to that,that never in the history of man ,has there been World cooperation!To many are looking to take advantage,to many are unwilling to give any advantage!

So,IMO,we should invest in R & D for futuristic ways of living with the evolutionary Nature patterns and the possible added effects of human inability to cooperate for the good of all!

Development of alternate fuel and commodity resources should be developed for the main purpose of not being vulnerable economically and security wise to foreign gov'ts or peoples!

Who knows the future?The human race has always had the great and strong predictions about the ''end of the World'' and its civilizations!

Who knows,maybe this will be the impetus for space colonization or whatever,but evolution parts of life will more than likely continue as it has forever!!

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by aznyron » February 9, 2009, 2:54 pm

Bob only democrats and there supporters have to give rock hard proof to WBU but if your a Republican and supporter of the past idiot then what you say is the gospel according to WBU that why I no longer debate with him and it seems only Democrats are on board with global warming I guess it interferes with
capitalism if you believe in global warming but what do I know I have been told numerous times I don't know what I am talking about

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by Aardvark » February 9, 2009, 3:26 pm

I dont care what the truth is, as far as I'm concerned the sooner we stop throwing filth into the atmosphere and the Ocians the better off we and the World we share will be !

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by TJ » February 9, 2009, 3:28 pm

Ice Age. Do you know what that means? The Ice Age is not a new idea.

The Earth has been warming for milliniums,10,000 years or so. Can you google Ice Age to understand that natual forces, not men, have been warming the Earth.

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by BobHelm » February 9, 2009, 4:05 pm

Suggest that you actually follow your own advice TJ.
Try....
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html
For example. No axe to grind, just an honest scientific account...Exploring the possible reasons for past Ice Ages...One of which is a rise in Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere.....
Changes in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are a strong candidate to explain the overall pattern of climatic change. Carbon dioxide influences the mean global temperature through the greenhouse effect. The globally averaged surface temperature for the Earth is approximately 15 degrees Celsius, and this is due largely to the greenhouse effect. Solar radiation entering earth's atmosphere is predominantly short wave, while heat radiated from the Earth's surface is long wave. Water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and other trace gases in the Earth's atmosphere absorb this long wave radiation. Because the Earth does not allow this long wave radiation to leave, the solar energy is trapped and the net effect is to warm the Earth. If not for the presence of an atmosphere, the surface temperature on earth would be well below the freezing point of water.

Through a million year period, the average amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is affected by four fluxes: flux of carbon due to (1) metamorphic degassing, (2) weathering of organic carbon, (3) weathering of silicates, (4) burial of organic carbon. Degassing reactions associated with volcanic activity and the combining of organic carbon with oxygen release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Conversely, the burial of organic matter removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
Oh, what is man releasing into the atmosphere every day.....Oh yes Carbon Dioxide....but that, obviously, has no effect...Does it????? :(

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by cookie » February 10, 2009, 12:08 pm

Manmade global warming evident on every continent, polar report finds

Data compiled by the University of East Anglia finds evidence of warming in Antarctica that can for the first time be directly attributed to human emissions

* David Adam, environment correspondent
* guardian.co.uk, Thursday 30 October 2008 18.01 GMT




No corner of the Earth is immune from the effects of global warming, according to a new study that confirms manmade temperature rises in both the Arctic and Antarctic regions. Temperature records over the last century show that warming in the planet's coldest and most remote wildernesses is caused by human emissions of greenhouse gases.

The study, published today in Nature Geoscience, is the first to find the fingerprints of manmade global warming on the Antarctic, where a shortage of data makes it hard to be sure. Last year's report, from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), said human influence could be detected on every continent, except Antarctica. Climate sceptics have exploited this omission to question the science of global warming.

In the new study, Nathan Gillett, then working at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, though now at Environment Canada, compiled, with colleagues, climate data across the Arctic and Antarctic regions since 1900, and compared the patterns with those produced by computer simulations with and without human activity.

They say only the models that included human influences – such as emissions of carbon dioxide and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) – were able to reproduce the observed temperature trends.

Gillett said: "The main message is that for the first time we are able to directly attribute warming in both the Arctic and Antarctica to human influence. Melting of ice shelves has implications for sea-level rises."

Peter Stott, head of climate monitoring and attribution at the Met Office, who worked on the study, said: "In both polar regions, the observed warming can only be reproduced in our models by including human influences, natural forces alone are not enough.

For a long time climate scientists have known that Arctic areas would be expected to warm most strongly because of feedback mechanisms. But the results from this work demonstrate the part man has already played in the significant warming that we've observed in both polar regions."

The polar regions have seen some of the most dramatic impacts of climate change on the planet in recent years. The Arctic is warming twice as fast as the global average, which has contributed to record melting of sea ice in the Arctic summer and thinning in the winter.

The picture in Antarctica is more complex, but the rocky Antarctic peninsula has experienced temperature rises of 3C over the past 50 years – among the largest recorded. Other parts, including the vast east-Antarctic ice sheet, have seen less change.

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/index.html

http://www.ipcc.ch/


http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... e-thinning


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and these idiotic politicians keep on living in their bubble of DENIAL and they keep on playing with the future of our children.... :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: :fryingpan: [-( [-( [-( [-( [-( [-( [-( [-( [-(

laphanphon

Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by laphanphon » February 10, 2009, 12:43 pm

IF a man made/contributory problem, the obvious hard choice is to stop....stopping death. china has the right idea, one family, one child. to be fair, in the future, one in, one out, no more being born than dying. might as well let sub sahara africa self destruct, between aids, malaria, diphtheria, starvation, and wee bit of genocide, that continent will take care of itself.

ban on all logging, all, no more wood products. more trees, less CO2. some easy things to do.

personally i don't give a sh*t about climate change/global warming, as if true, and the only reason i would think so, is the oil companies seem to finance any studies against the theory, what don't they want us to think. but really, nobody is addressing the issue. cut carbon releases, NO, cut the need for carbon releases, there are simply too many people. solution........................... :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan:

until they actually start taking the appropriate measures, not only for climate/warming control, but for simple practicality, the planet can only provide for so many without total failure. not going to happen in ours or our children's life time, but eventually.

apparently, like myself, nobody gives a sh*t. talk talk talk, sell books, movies, start a drive, charity, trusts and funds to finance this and that, money money money.

sell your f'g car, turn off the damn air conditioners if you really think you care. :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan: :frying pan:

we're all retired, most, we don't need these luxurious, walk, bike it, get a horse and dog. live, be happy. be a subsistence farmer.

NO, didn't think so. :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: 8)

maybe this should be in the rant and cry about anything thread :guitar: :guitar: :guitar: :drunk:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by Aardvark » February 10, 2009, 1:36 pm

Thanks for the rant LA, but a little bit does go a long way 8)

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by nevket240 » February 10, 2009, 3:12 pm

What a crock of dogshyte!! The Antarctica claims have been well and truly debunked. read the following to understand how fraudulent that claim was. It was basically the last bastion left standing for the Goron to keep his business model going. AGW is the biggest criminal fraud in history.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5105

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5153
in this link have a look at 15. if data is not available its made up to suit. the BAS have made changes to the data after CA pointed it out. shame AG and his criminal cronies, including one Henry Paulsen couldn't do the same.
Its a business model, not a climate model.

and for those who like links try this one.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? ... d53cd3d320

regards :guiness:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by jackspratt » February 10, 2009, 4:11 pm

Talking about rants.

If anyone is inclined to click on nevket's links, particularly the 3rd one, don't be taken in by it's seemingly "official" banner at the top - representing itself as something from the US Senate Committee on Enviroment and Public Works.

In fact it is a (misleading) blog from the minority leader of that committee - one James Inhofe, a Republican from Kentucky. A couple of quote from Wikipedia on the good Senator:
James Mountain "Jim" Inhofe (born November 17, 1934) is an American politician from Oklahoma. A member of the Republican Party, he currently serves as the senior Senator from Oklahoma. He is among the most vocal global warming skeptics in Congress.[1] Inhofe often cites the Bible as the source for his positions on various political issues.[2]
Inhofe is one of the most conservative members of either house of Congress (the eighth-most conservative Senator, according to the March 2007 National Journal rankings of Liberal/Conservative members of Congress.[6])

As a member of the Armed Services Committee, he was among the panelists questioning witnesses about the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. There he made news by claiming he was "outraged by the outrage" over the revelations of abuse, suggesting that shock at the crimes was more offensive than the crimes themselves.[7][8] He has also criticized the Red Cross as a "bleeding heart".[9] In 2006, Inhofe was one of only nine senators to vote against the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 banning torture on individuals in U.S. Government custody.
More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Inhofe

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by stattointhailand » February 10, 2009, 4:38 pm

(the eighth-most conservative Senator,

Don't think I'd like to meet the other seven :yikes:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by nevket240 » February 10, 2009, 4:45 pm

Q/Snow Job in Antartica
By Mike Dubrasich, Western Institute for the Study of the Environment (WISE)

The latest issue of Nature boasts the cover story: Antarctic Warming. The problem is that the research paper being touted is based on bad data.

Statistician, global warming skeptic, and blogger Steve McIntyre of Climate Audit [here] has discovered that the Antarctic weather station data—upon which the paper in Nature was based—was tainted. Temperature data from two different stations, “Harry” and “Gill” in West Antarctica were combined to produce an erroneous uptick in historical readings.

In addition, meteorologist, weather station guru, and blogger Anthony Watts of Watts Up With That has demonstrated that numerous Antarctic weather stations may have serious data problems. Snow has piled up around temperature sensors—effectively insulating the temperature monitoring stations from the bitterly cold extremes of the southern-most continent [here ].



A University of Washington Press Release dated January 21, 2009, hailed new findings of a team led by UW professor Eric Steig. It noted “Scientists studying climate change have long believed that while most of the rest of the globe has been getting steadily warmer, a large part of Antarctica—the East Antarctic Ice Sheet—has actually been getting colder.

But new research shows that for the last 50 years, much of Antarctica has been warming at a rate comparable to the rest of the world. In fact, the warming in West Antarctica is greater than the cooling in East Antarctica, meaning that, on average, the continent has gotten warmer, said Eric Steig, a University of Washington professor of Earth and space sciences and director of the Quaternary Research Center at the UW. The study found that warming in West Antarctica exceeded one-tenth of a degree Celsius per decade for the last 50 years, and more than offset the cooling in East Antarctica.” The story was picked up by newspapers around the world.

Now it turns out the data used was faulty and erroneous. Various climate skeptics pointed out immediately that a temperature rise of one-tenth of a degree Celsius per decade was too small to be detected, especially when temperature stations in Western Antarctica are few in number across such a vast, continental area. The “interpolation” statistics used by the authors were also called into question (NASA noted in 2007 that the “The scientists estimate the level of uncertainty in the measurements is between 2-3 degrees Celsius”.).

But until last Sunday, no one had examined the actual data. That is when Mr. McIntyre and contributors to his blog, Climate Audit, discovered that the readings of stations “Harry” and “Gill” had been combined in such a way as to show a false upward trend. Gill temperature readings from 1987 to July 1994 were spliced with Harry readings from December 1994 to 2000. Since Gill is at a relatively snow-free location, its temperatures were slightly colder than at snowier Harry. When the two stations were treated as one, an erroneous upward trend resulted. McIntyre also discovered data flaws at the Chatham Island weather station last June. When the data flaws were reported Monday, the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) initially erased Harry and Gill from its database. Emails from Mr. McIntyre persuaded BAS to restore the data for scientific review. The science magazine Nature has yet to respond to the (confirmed) allegations of flawed data that call into question the reliability of the UW team’s findings.

Mr. Watts has posted photographs of various Antarctic weather station buried in snow. Indeed, snow burial of “Harry” may have led to the confusion with “Gill” when Harry could not be found (Antarctica is a big place with few distinct topographic features). Other Antarctic weather stations with siting problems (snow burial, too close to heated dormitories) include “Theresa”, “Halley VI”, “Summit”, “Lanyon Junction”, and others. Watts reports: “This regular burial and digging out of stations brings the whole network of AWS stations to be used as sensitive climate measurement stations into question. Without a doubt, weather stations periodically buried in snow cannot reliably detect a temperature trend as small as 0.1 degrees C per decade!”

The reported “warming” of Western Antarctica was widely hailed as evidence of global warming. Whether Media outlets will now report that the underlying data was flawed, and thus the finding of warming unreliable, remains to be seen. They haven’t yet. See story here.

Posted on 02/07 at 09:49 AM unQ


Jack. have you totally lost it??? Wiki is well known for being useless as a dependable source of quality information. For instance the climate section is moderated by one of the more infamous scammers. If what you put into that section doesn't gell with his EcoNazi stance he simply deletes it.
Try using something from Wiki in court. The laughs on you.
Besides what you have attempted is known as an adhominem attack.. State facts Jack.. The facts are in the pudding. The whole AGW thing is a scam.

regards :guiness:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by nevket240 » February 10, 2009, 5:03 pm

Antarctica Warming? An Evolution of Viewpoint
By Anthony Watts on Watts Up With That

A press release today by the University of Washington makes a claim that Antarctica is warming and has been for the last 50 years: “The study found that warming in West Antarctica exceeded one-tenth of a degree Celsius per decade for the last 50 years and more than offset the cooling in East Antarctica.”
“The researchers devised a statistical technique that uses data from satellites and from Antarctic weather stations to make a new estimate of temperature trends.” “People were calculating with their heads instead of actually doing the math,” Steig said. “What we did is interpolate carefully instead of just using the back of an envelope. While other interpolations had been done previously, no one had really taken advantage of the satellite data, which provide crucial information about spatial patterns of temperature change.”

Satellites calculate the surface temperature by measuring the intensity of infrared light radiated by the snowpack, and they have the advantage of covering the entire continent. However, they have only been in operation for 25 years. On the other hand, a number of Antarctic weather stations have been in place since 1957, the International Geophysical Year, but virtually all of them are within a short distance of the coast and so provide no direct information about conditions in the continent’s interior.

The scientists found temperature measurements from weather stations corresponded closely with satellite data for overlapping time periods. That allowed them to use the satellite data as a guide to deduce temperatures in areas of the continent without weather stations.

Co-authors of the paper are David Schneider of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., a former student of Steig’s; Scott Rutherford of Roger Williams University in Bristol, R.I.; Michael Mann of Pennsylvania State University; Josefino Comiso of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.; and Drew Shindell of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City. The work was supported by grants from the National Science Foundation.

Anytime Michael Mann gets involved in a paper and something is “deduced” it makes me wary of the veracity of the methodology. Why? Mann can’t even correct simple faults like latitude-longitude errors in data used in previous papers he’s written.

But that’s not the focus of the moment. In that press release they cite NASA satellite imagery. Let’s take a look at how the imagery has changed in 5 years.





From the UW paper again: “West Antarctica is a very different place than East Antarctica, and there is a physical barrier, the Transantarctic Mountains, that separates the two,” said Steig, lead author of a paper documenting the warming published in the Jan. 22 edition of Nature. But no, it just couldn’t possibly have anything at all to do with the fact that the entire western side of the Antarctic continent and peninsula is dotted with volcanoes. Recent discovery of new volcanic activity isn’t mentioned in the paper at all. From January 2008, the first evidence of a volcanic eruption from beneath Antarctica’s ice sheet has been discovered by members of the British Antarctic Survey.


See larger here.

The volcano on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet began erupting some 2,000 years ago and remains active to this day. Using airborne ice-sounding radar, scientists discovered a layer of ash produced by a ‘subglacial’ volcano. It extends across an area larger than Wales. The volcano is located beneath the West Antarctic ice sheet in the Hudson Mountains at latitude 74.6South, longitude 97West. Read more and comments here.

Update: In response to questions and challenges in comments, I’ve added imagery above and have a desire to further explain why this paper is problematic in my view. The author of the paper himself (Steig) mentions the subglacial heat source in a response from “tallbloke” in comments. My issue is that they don’t even consider or investigate the possibility. Science is about testing and if possible, excluding all potential candidates that challenge your hypothesis, and given the geographic correlation between their output map and the volcanic map, it seems a reasonable theory to investigate. They didn’t.

But let’s put the volcanoes aside for a moment. Let’s look at the data error band. The UAH trend for Antarctica since 1978 is -0.77 degrees/century. In a 2007 press release on Antarctica, NASA’s describes their measurement error at 2-3 degrees, making Steig’s conclusion of .25 degrees Celsius over 25 years statistically meaningless.

Posted on 01/22 at 08:32 AM

enough of this. scam is shot to bits. make sure you read the last paragraph thoroughly. very telling. shows you how dishonest the whole scam is. what is most telling is the FACT that the vast majority of the BS comes from 2 sources. NASA GISS & the Hadley centre in the UK. India disowns it, the Russians call it as I do, the Chinese aren't really interested, the Isrealis have more Skeptics than scammers.
Then Google Fenton Communications. Then look up the Cub of Rome and read their book titled "limits to growth" as that is the genesis for what is going on.

http://www.green-agenda.com/

regards. :guiness:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by jackspratt » February 10, 2009, 5:36 pm

Haven't quite lost it yet nev, but some would say I am teetering on the edge. :D

I have no desire, nor inclination, to waste my time pointing to the numerous sources which establish a pretty strong case that global warming is having a severe impact on the earth - including Antarctica. And further, that global warming is being accelerated by the activities of mankind.

It is like trying to convince a smoker that smoking is bad for them. ](*,)

Even if Gore did get some things wrong, he has served his purpose by using his position and influence to issue a giant wake-up call to Joe Public around the world - and for that I applaud him.

As far as adhominem is concerned, I merely pointed people to the record of Mr Inhofe - if they are interested, they can read what has been said, and make up their own minds as to whether (no pun intended) he is a credible source or not.

I would consider Wiki to be a bit more dependable than Mr Inhofe :lol:

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

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Re: Global warming hits all antarctica

Post by rick » February 10, 2009, 8:03 pm

Personally, I do not really care if Antarctica warms or not - I do not live there, hardly any one else does and I always live far enough above sea level not to worry. And i do not eat penguins or krill.

But, the world as a whole is suffering. Ask an eskimo if there is global warming - he will tell you. In the UK a bit of warming would be welcome. But not being selfish, i know it will screw up more of the world than it will help. Whatever the cause, we need to try and do something about it. And we can, with some effort. One example - we are being encouraged to use low energy fluorescent bulbs - only use 20% of the energy. But now you can get LED bulbs - cost more, but last 25 years and only use 2% of the energy. so solutions CAN be found. Just try a bit harder.

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