OK, thought I'd ask where I've gone wrong in the past.
I've had a few relationships in the past. In each one I've said to them that they would always come first, but I need my own time to enjoy my sport.
In the past I've played football, cricket and golf. Due to old age football has gone out of the window now.
Initially, my partner has been happy with this arrangement. All I have asked for is half a day at the weekend to do my thing.
So, why is it, after about 12 months, they start to get moody and complain?
I've been open and honest from the beginning. I haven't changed. Why do they want to change me? Why do they expect me to go shopping on a Saturday?
Guess I'll never understand the fairer sex. To me they are a complete mystery.
Gary
Why do our partners try to change us?
Ahhhh, but surely as long as you can maintain the mystery, or they surprise you (this applys both ways girls, before I get the 
) the better it is.
They like shopping, I can sympathise actually about the golf (kidding Gary
) so its give and take.
"They" don't get moody....its normal settled life that sets in. We all get a bit bored with that.
John
) the better it is.They like shopping, I can sympathise actually about the golf (kidding Gary
) so its give and take."They" don't get moody....its normal settled life that sets in. We all get a bit bored with that.
John
From Denver, With Love
This is a very lengthy but extremely interesting piece on a group of six Americans who went to Thailand to find prospective wives. They eventually end up in Udon Thani, believe it or not, and are lectured by a Thai woman on how to treat the Thai woman they might fancy. Some eye-opening advice from that woman! But what caught my attention and got me reading this 10-page feature was the initial reference to the city of Udon Thani:
"The next stop is Udon Thani, a town famous for beautiful women and their marriages to farangs. Jum [a girl in Bangkok one of the men has met] knows all about Udon Thani and doesn't want Greg to go, but he's going anyway."
So like it or not, Udon Thani seems to have a unique reputation of sorts--not just in the world generally--but even amongst Thai women.
Here's the article:
http://www.westword.com/Issues/2006-03- ... ure_1.html
"The next stop is Udon Thani, a town famous for beautiful women and their marriages to farangs. Jum [a girl in Bangkok one of the men has met] knows all about Udon Thani and doesn't want Greg to go, but he's going anyway."
So like it or not, Udon Thani seems to have a unique reputation of sorts--not just in the world generally--but even amongst Thai women.
Here's the article:
http://www.westword.com/Issues/2006-03- ... ure_1.html
Garnet & Jack
-
iciodaverona
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 30
- Joined: July 5, 2005, 1:32 am
- Location: Verona - Italy
- Contact:
Perfect English Icio, we have the same saying.....iciodaverona wrote:In Italy, we say "your woman will try to change you at her wish, and when you'll changed, she will tell you aren't the man she knows" (sorry for my English).
The man that knows women hasn't born yet!
Your Icio
Although if you knew them entirely..how boring would that be...
Same Same as they say..women (and I guess men
) the world over-
Roadman
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 208
- Joined: November 27, 2005, 1:33 pm
- Location: Tauranga, New Zealand and Udon
No change or attempts to change in this house. Simple requirements were sorted out from day one like "I fart so you are also welcome to fart". 
That luxury has always been shared equally.
At times early on TW attempting to correct me up for things that one should not do, until I would give her a reminder that "this is Kiwiland culture we are currently living in not Thai darling".
Some of the basic rules of the article I agree with, many I could not, (the first golden rule is being broken by this lot) not only from my own view but also from how I know my partner, and her girlfriends think. An American and a Malay Chinese giving others advice on Thai women and culture, is perhaps why the article did not quite gel with me, or perhaps that I have little emphathy for "love tours" - obedient serving wife obtained before departure. Still, if both parties are happy then good luck to them both.
That luxury has always been shared equally. At times early on TW attempting to correct me up for things that one should not do, until I would give her a reminder that "this is Kiwiland culture we are currently living in not Thai darling".
Some of the basic rules of the article I agree with, many I could not, (the first golden rule is being broken by this lot) not only from my own view but also from how I know my partner, and her girlfriends think. An American and a Malay Chinese giving others advice on Thai women and culture, is perhaps why the article did not quite gel with me, or perhaps that I have little emphathy for "love tours" - obedient serving wife obtained before departure. Still, if both parties are happy then good luck to them both.
"And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll"
LZ (Page/Plant)
The tune will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll"
LZ (Page/Plant)
Denouement
Roadman, my inclination lies in your direction. As well, everyone is an individual, and not necessarily able to be defined by someone else's rule. Still, there are generalisations that can also popularly fit in anywhere that anybody wants to insert them.
The item made me think, though. My wife might finally be here in Canada before Summer. She is as stubborn as a freaking mule, and easily set off. But she's never set foot outside of her country.
In Thailand, well, it's not always a smooth glide for this dude juxtaposed with her. And nor should it be, I expect. I'm there holidaying--not living my day-to-day Canadian lifestyle.
The roles here will be opposed beyond anything that I think that she can realistically imagine. I cannot even conjecture what's before us. I'm only hoping that her marvel of all that is so unknown to her will endure long enough for her to accomplish a firm enough grasp of what is required of me in every financial angle. She does fathom that I am not a "rich farang." She has had sufficient comparisons via other Thai female acquaintances (known or reported) to know it to be true. Soon, she will live this truth.
I know that she's a good girl, and loyal. She's just headstrong, outspoken, and less than demure where our relationship is concerned. She'd love to be calling every shot. But again, I'm not the flake on a Thailand holiday that she's going to find herself with here. Bedtime at 8:30 p.m. for me--up at 3:30 a.m. for work! Hey, the same guy who has beer with his first meal of the day in Thailand cannot possibly carry forth the same protocols with her that she has come to be familiar with.
Yes, I can Retire in less than four years--this won't be an unendurable span of time for us, I hope. We can cope. I am not inflexible, and neither is she. She knows my intent in regards to Thailand. I expect that the sole flaw may be that she might grow too accustomed to being here--she may become too facile in adapting to being Canadian. With two young sons back home in the family Non Soong village home, there's always the huge chance that her adaptation may compel her to logically want to bring them here, too. And thus forgo my Retirement to Thailand, as I have in mind.
Changes. They are by no means one-sided! Ask me to report more in nine month's or a year's time!
The item made me think, though. My wife might finally be here in Canada before Summer. She is as stubborn as a freaking mule, and easily set off. But she's never set foot outside of her country.
In Thailand, well, it's not always a smooth glide for this dude juxtaposed with her. And nor should it be, I expect. I'm there holidaying--not living my day-to-day Canadian lifestyle.
The roles here will be opposed beyond anything that I think that she can realistically imagine. I cannot even conjecture what's before us. I'm only hoping that her marvel of all that is so unknown to her will endure long enough for her to accomplish a firm enough grasp of what is required of me in every financial angle. She does fathom that I am not a "rich farang." She has had sufficient comparisons via other Thai female acquaintances (known or reported) to know it to be true. Soon, she will live this truth.
I know that she's a good girl, and loyal. She's just headstrong, outspoken, and less than demure where our relationship is concerned. She'd love to be calling every shot. But again, I'm not the flake on a Thailand holiday that she's going to find herself with here. Bedtime at 8:30 p.m. for me--up at 3:30 a.m. for work! Hey, the same guy who has beer with his first meal of the day in Thailand cannot possibly carry forth the same protocols with her that she has come to be familiar with.
Yes, I can Retire in less than four years--this won't be an unendurable span of time for us, I hope. We can cope. I am not inflexible, and neither is she. She knows my intent in regards to Thailand. I expect that the sole flaw may be that she might grow too accustomed to being here--she may become too facile in adapting to being Canadian. With two young sons back home in the family Non Soong village home, there's always the huge chance that her adaptation may compel her to logically want to bring them here, too. And thus forgo my Retirement to Thailand, as I have in mind.
Changes. They are by no means one-sided! Ask me to report more in nine month's or a year's time!
Garnet & Jack
Relationships and intercultural problems
well.. after being with the TW for over 32 years, I can say that times can be good or bad.. Of all the Thai/Farang marriages I've seen, I'd say over half resulted in split-ups for a variety of reasons, both from the male and from the female side...
what made it work for us...??
money; 50/50 always, joint accounts and equal decision making toward any major purchase and equal frugality as both of us came from relatively (for both U.S. and Thailand) poor households. We scrimped, we saved, but always had a decent life and gave our kids a good life too. I've seen many a marriage, not necessarily Thai/Farang go on the rocks due to money problems..
Battles Royale but never about money.. Yup, tooth and nail, muay Thai/muay Farang but just too dang stubborn to split up.. A warped sense of humor in both of us usually led to raucous laughter after a dustup.. There's been many a times where one of us would demand divorce with the other refusing out of hard-headedness.. Yet in the long run, it's all worked out.
Trust.. unequivocal on both sides although the TW certainly can occassionally go out with her friends dancing or card-playing till 0300 wheras if I tried that, it'd be back to a Battle Royale.. I guess in balance it worked out fine.. She trusts me and I trust her..
Williness to give in for the big things on both sides.. 21 1/2 years in the military and she followed me around the world.. Now on the flip side I've stayed in SE Asia for the last 8 years and intend to retire in Udon.. Payback in kind for the young lady who traveled in 1976 across a very large globe to the States with no expectation of ever returning to Thailand. (no money back then!!).
No questions about previous lives, no finger pointing, look to the future always.. After we committed to each other and then later married, there has never been a time where either of us has dug up the past.. done deal, doesn't matter..
Of course, some folks run into that family support thing.. Perhaps I was lucky as the wife had only her mother who we sent money to, and a step-sister who's only benefited since we returned over this way.. Again, all expenditures were decided jointly with no secret sending/hiding of money. I never felt even back in 76 that the $50-100 a month we sent old Mae-Yai was much of an imposition, particularly when the wife worked too. Just part of any child's obligation to a parent who had no means of support.
What's to expect these days?? I'd say that even a girl form the lower classes in Thailand is far far more sophisticated today than 30 years ago. Better educated, more willing to travel and yes with higher expectations in life than my wife or I probably had back then.. I'd say that if anything, Thai girls these days would probably be more demanding than way back then. Actually, anybody that decides to get married can only expect stiff challenges when it's an inter-cultural marriage.. Expect problems, deal with them, solve them and don't give up..
what made it work for us...??
money; 50/50 always, joint accounts and equal decision making toward any major purchase and equal frugality as both of us came from relatively (for both U.S. and Thailand) poor households. We scrimped, we saved, but always had a decent life and gave our kids a good life too. I've seen many a marriage, not necessarily Thai/Farang go on the rocks due to money problems..
Battles Royale but never about money.. Yup, tooth and nail, muay Thai/muay Farang but just too dang stubborn to split up.. A warped sense of humor in both of us usually led to raucous laughter after a dustup.. There's been many a times where one of us would demand divorce with the other refusing out of hard-headedness.. Yet in the long run, it's all worked out.
Trust.. unequivocal on both sides although the TW certainly can occassionally go out with her friends dancing or card-playing till 0300 wheras if I tried that, it'd be back to a Battle Royale.. I guess in balance it worked out fine.. She trusts me and I trust her..
Williness to give in for the big things on both sides.. 21 1/2 years in the military and she followed me around the world.. Now on the flip side I've stayed in SE Asia for the last 8 years and intend to retire in Udon.. Payback in kind for the young lady who traveled in 1976 across a very large globe to the States with no expectation of ever returning to Thailand. (no money back then!!).
No questions about previous lives, no finger pointing, look to the future always.. After we committed to each other and then later married, there has never been a time where either of us has dug up the past.. done deal, doesn't matter..
Of course, some folks run into that family support thing.. Perhaps I was lucky as the wife had only her mother who we sent money to, and a step-sister who's only benefited since we returned over this way.. Again, all expenditures were decided jointly with no secret sending/hiding of money. I never felt even back in 76 that the $50-100 a month we sent old Mae-Yai was much of an imposition, particularly when the wife worked too. Just part of any child's obligation to a parent who had no means of support.
What's to expect these days?? I'd say that even a girl form the lower classes in Thailand is far far more sophisticated today than 30 years ago. Better educated, more willing to travel and yes with higher expectations in life than my wife or I probably had back then.. I'd say that if anything, Thai girls these days would probably be more demanding than way back then. Actually, anybody that decides to get married can only expect stiff challenges when it's an inter-cultural marriage.. Expect problems, deal with them, solve them and don't give up..
Dave
Why do our partners try to change us?
I've seen two tenets hold true over the years:
1. Our strengths, taken to the extreme, become our weaknesses (and
usually show up under stress).
2. What attracted you to someone in the first place usually becomes what
drives you crazy about them later on (see #1).
Who we are and what we are -- good and bad -- is so inextricably tied together that it's difficult to change a characteristic without affecting something else. Changing a behavior out of consideration for a request should be fairly easy, but changing a fundamental personality characteristic, or value, goes too close to the essence of a person.
And still, people get married carrying a fantasy in their heads that "close enough" can eventually be molded to "perfect."
SHARA
1. Our strengths, taken to the extreme, become our weaknesses (and
usually show up under stress).
2. What attracted you to someone in the first place usually becomes what
drives you crazy about them later on (see #1).
Who we are and what we are -- good and bad -- is so inextricably tied together that it's difficult to change a characteristic without affecting something else. Changing a behavior out of consideration for a request should be fairly easy, but changing a fundamental personality characteristic, or value, goes too close to the essence of a person.
And still, people get married carrying a fantasy in their heads that "close enough" can eventually be molded to "perfect."
SHARA
Re: Relationships and intercultural problems
Sorry for clipping your post Dave, but agree entirely...FrazeeDK wrote:She trusts me and I trust her
Anybody who can meet a Thai woman outside the "tourist" exprerience, has the opportunity to meet somebody who is fiercely loyal to death, will put his needs ahead of her own..... but is certainly not the "little wife" that some alpha males from the west want and expect.
We argue, and I lose morally because I have never, ever, seen her get angry. She is far smarter than that (and she will laugh when she logs on here and sees this) And she is from an Issan poor village.....with the advantage of education and a good brain.
Its just WE...as Brian says, and that holds true despite my past mistakes.
No disrepect to farang woman Shara.... I would have easily married one or two if circumstance had not sent me this way
Why do ur partners try to change us?
I agree completely on the health of this discussion.
In the end, really, don't our relationship questions go to our commonality as humans? Not falangs, not Thais, but men and women finding our ways to each other (and around in other, and through each other). Admittedly, this is harder in a Thai-falang relationship, but many of the fundamental issues that crop are the same everywhere. I do think there is a cultural bias in our countries to attribute Thai-falang relationship issues around money and finances, sexual fidelity, and communication to the wife being Thai, when frankly those are issues that are at the top of the list for falang-falang marriage difficulties also.
[BTW, it would be very difficult to "offend" me as a falang woman. I've lived and/or worked in too many cultures around the world to consider myself the stereotypical falang woman. In fact, I doubt Stephen could have loved me again (still) had I not been capable of connecting as deeply as I did with Thailand and been capable of loving the Thai aspect of his children's lives.]
Here's what I connected with most, in establishing my own new relative relationships with Thai women:
1. As mentioned before, their fierce loyalty and sense of family and belongingness. Stephen's ex-wife's family had no intention whatsoever of letting him leave their family, and they immediately brought me into that special, protected circle. This was true of our in-laws, also, and they expected that we would enfold our new daughter-in-law in the same circle as she came to the U.S.
2. The joy of children. This is, quite simply, a universal language of women everywhere. A baby to cuddle, a child to admire -- this will transcend language difficulties anywhere, anytime.
We share many more similarities than differences.
SHARA
In the end, really, don't our relationship questions go to our commonality as humans? Not falangs, not Thais, but men and women finding our ways to each other (and around in other, and through each other). Admittedly, this is harder in a Thai-falang relationship, but many of the fundamental issues that crop are the same everywhere. I do think there is a cultural bias in our countries to attribute Thai-falang relationship issues around money and finances, sexual fidelity, and communication to the wife being Thai, when frankly those are issues that are at the top of the list for falang-falang marriage difficulties also.
[BTW, it would be very difficult to "offend" me as a falang woman. I've lived and/or worked in too many cultures around the world to consider myself the stereotypical falang woman. In fact, I doubt Stephen could have loved me again (still) had I not been capable of connecting as deeply as I did with Thailand and been capable of loving the Thai aspect of his children's lives.]
Here's what I connected with most, in establishing my own new relative relationships with Thai women:
1. As mentioned before, their fierce loyalty and sense of family and belongingness. Stephen's ex-wife's family had no intention whatsoever of letting him leave their family, and they immediately brought me into that special, protected circle. This was true of our in-laws, also, and they expected that we would enfold our new daughter-in-law in the same circle as she came to the U.S.
2. The joy of children. This is, quite simply, a universal language of women everywhere. A baby to cuddle, a child to admire -- this will transcend language difficulties anywhere, anytime.
We share many more similarities than differences.
SHARA
My My Shara, How you can say we are all alike. I think if a few more folks would back up and view people, they will agree with you also. I have said before you look around in any village, town, city in any country and the people will be alike. Good and bad they are all there. You wanna find good you will, if bad you can find that also. Sometimes it is difficult to look that far, but if you do you will find some good.
It is funny but one aw s--t will trump twenty atta boys. People are the same way. One bad will trump twenty very good folks. Why do we remember the bad so vivid. Why not remember the lady that cooked your meal at the outdoor resturant that did an extra good job of cleaning your table as she saw you are falang or guest? There are many good people we meet every day. Just need to look.
I think if a few more folks would back up and view people, they will agree with you also. I have said before you look around in any village, town, city in any country and the people will be alike. Good and bad they are all there. You wanna find good you will, if bad you can find that also. Sometimes it is difficult to look that far, but if you do you will find some good. It is funny but one aw s--t will trump twenty atta boys. People are the same way. One bad will trump twenty very good folks. Why do we remember the bad so vivid. Why not remember the lady that cooked your meal at the outdoor resturant that did an extra good job of cleaning your table as she saw you are falang or guest? There are many good people we meet every day. Just need to look.
On the toughness of Thai women who leave Thailand
A little off the string, but related to relationships between Thai and Farang.
Over the years, I've had many Farangs tell me how "lucky" I am to be married to an Asian.. "Oh, they're so submissive and docile".. My response is "Bwahahahahahah!!" Seriously, how introverted, submissive and docile could somone be to voluntarily marry someone from another country/culture, leave their homeland with no dream of coming back, and successfully build a family, have kids, and adapt not just into one country's culture but another one within two years when the husband moves. The viewpoint of many Farang that Asian woman and particularly Thai are truly "geisha-like" in the most misogynistic sense is to me, hilariously ignorant..
My interactions with numerous Thais outside of Thailand over the years make me believe that those who can make the leap into another culture successfully, or even not so successfully, certainly have much more moral fiber, spunk, stick-to-it-tevness than me.. My wife is, in colloquial terms, hard as woodpecker lips yet manages to maintain a sweet side too....
How many Farangs over here do you know that have made the total cultural immersion with language, life, et al, that most Thais who live in other countries have no choice but to do? Yes, there are a few, but despite my merely fair proficiency in Thai/Lao I don't think I could cut it..
I guess I'm just too spoiled from my upbringing in a western culture..
Over the years, I've had many Farangs tell me how "lucky" I am to be married to an Asian.. "Oh, they're so submissive and docile".. My response is "Bwahahahahahah!!" Seriously, how introverted, submissive and docile could somone be to voluntarily marry someone from another country/culture, leave their homeland with no dream of coming back, and successfully build a family, have kids, and adapt not just into one country's culture but another one within two years when the husband moves. The viewpoint of many Farang that Asian woman and particularly Thai are truly "geisha-like" in the most misogynistic sense is to me, hilariously ignorant..
My interactions with numerous Thais outside of Thailand over the years make me believe that those who can make the leap into another culture successfully, or even not so successfully, certainly have much more moral fiber, spunk, stick-to-it-tevness than me.. My wife is, in colloquial terms, hard as woodpecker lips yet manages to maintain a sweet side too....
How many Farangs over here do you know that have made the total cultural immersion with language, life, et al, that most Thais who live in other countries have no choice but to do? Yes, there are a few, but despite my merely fair proficiency in Thai/Lao I don't think I could cut it..
I guess I'm just too spoiled from my upbringing in a western culture..
Dave