Recent Events Food for Thought

[bumper]

They have killed the Channel D coverage.

Pretty good coverage here in English

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/

Channel 44 cable

[trubrit]

They have killed the Channel D coverage.

Pretty good coverage here in English

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/

Channel 44 cable

Or online at www.dstation.tv

[bumper]

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

[bumper]

25 is back up with monks doing a chat at the site.

[Naam Jai]

Has anyone had their Man U ,Liverpool or Arsenal shirts pinched?
Watch out Chelsea fans, you may be next.
When do the Blues start ?

[BKKSTAN]

You know they will never take responsibilty for their mistakes - BKKSTAN

Well, this is a bit of a blanket statement isn't it?

Is this really true for all Thai people or are you referring to a certain segment of the population? If you just mean politicians, this is a trait shared by many around the world. Think Bush, Mugabe, the leader of North Korea, Castro and others around them.

If you mean ordinary Thais, academics, peasants, shopkeepers and so on, then you are sadly mistaken.

It is hard to believe a whole population can be condemned in such simple terms, but then again, I doubt you mean everyone in Thailand.

If farangs behave badly, they will come in for their share of criticism. And the innocent will be included just as some people in the west criticise all immigrants for their own problems.

You really can't be serious...can you?!?

What the potential fact that it happens in other places is immaterial to my point!

I live here in the present and my concerns are about myself and immediate family situation here!

If your point is rushing to the defense of Thais in general,you are wasting your time with me and again missed the point because to rant on with criticisms of my views is also a waste of time and space unless you like to see your colorful print!

You have your widely expressed views from your assimilated experiences in the past and I have my experiences and views from 12 years of non-assimilated falang perpective and whether you favor it or not,I would guess there are more here with my perpective than yours!

Hope you enjoy Canada and there is still a welcome for you when and if you come back to Thailand,I'm sure they will organize a Thai welcoming party for their falang hero that is so quick to criticize the expressions of a falang that doesn't seek nor want their applause!

[jackspratt]

Does Thailand have a history of "scapegoating" farangs?

Is there any rational basis to the proposition that this may occur?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Current events and developments in Thailand are very worrying, unstable and can lead to unfortunate consequences. Obviously, a solution will have to come soon either in the form of a coup, or a negotiated settlement between the main parties. One hopes that nothing more serious takes place. Good luck everyone, and be careful.

Dear Khun BKKSTAN:

To say that there are no Thais who will take responsiblity for their mistakes in a country of millions is totally absurd.

Can you be so sure that there are no exceptions? Not even one, ten, one hundred, one million?

To utter such a statement, sorry to say, shows bigotry and a few other not very nice traits in the extreme.

It is easy 'to defend the Thais' in this case because your view is so easy to prove incorrect. Common sense dictates you are wrong. Very few people could take your statement seriously. In addition, I would be happy to defend any group of people, be they Thais, Americans, Canadians, Burmese, Laotian, et al from the kind of prejudice that you expressed.

I never express information about this forum to any Thais that I know unless it is about business developments, such as the proposed complex, the opening of new stores and the like. It would be too embarrassing to inform them of some of the opinions that posters have about Thailand and Thai/Lao/Isaan people.

Yes, Canada is nice. It is warm and sunny and great weather for baseball this Easter Sunday.

Yes, from my understanding, there will be a few Thai people to welcome me back to that country in a few months time.

And please do not get your hair in a knot because I like the colour purple. It originates from the first time I flew Thai International and have associated that colour with Thailand ever since. Oh, and the colour of my university in Thailand, Chiang Mai University, is purple.

Take it easy and enjoy the fact that you are living in Thailand...and I am not! 55555

[bumper]

Might want to try PM's for personal meesages, this really eems to be between you two guys and not our buisness. Just a thought :-"

[cali4995]

Not really wanting to chose sides I actually think both of you are making valid points. It's hard to
deny that when "venting" takes place, often foreigners are the most convenient target. If you
understand the language, the whispered comments and words spoken under the breath not meant
to be heard can sometimes take your breath away. But then educated folks are not supposed to
generalize and an awful lot of Thais are uncomfortable and even embarrassed at the open conflict
and thuggish behavior displayed by all sides involved. There are so many factors all coming to a head
at once in Thailand, the faltering economy, this political chaos, the southern unrest, I'm not an
academic but average Thais seem stressed and unhappy to an unprecedented level. It's just sad.
p.s. Unfortunately I don't have enough hair on my head to tie in a knot, in truth I often must wear a
baseball cap backwards to avoid sunburn on my scalp and neck. If the professor insists on posting in
audacious magenta, we must endure.(truthfully, I'm rather jealous I didn't think of it first).

[Pakawala]

While enjoying life as an Udon-retiree yesterday, one of the guys got a call from his wife warning that, "all the streets coming into Udon have been blocked." She was concerned about her small business and what to do. After a while he told her to just close up shop and go home. She called back again and said she was going home but would stop off at Big C first to pick up a few things.

So... they really are taking it quite serious - but... TIT.

Back on topic, I don't see any problems that effect me personally... not even the ATM price increase since my money is directly deposited and I don't use a 'foreign' ATM card. The escape of the dignitaries from the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya means Thailand probably won't be getting any soft loans from China or Japan which will probably mean the economy will go a bit deeper into recession (and more quickly) but for me and the rest of the farang population it will mean more for our exchange rate. If you're looking to buy, wait a couple more months, prices will most likely start dropping for most major items (cars, housing, etc.).

The vast majority of Thai's do not realise (see there, I've been exposed to too many British Citizens - now I'm even writing like they do) - Thai's do not REALIZE the problems that they (both red and yellow shirts) are causing to the economy in the long term. They only seem to focus on their immediate goals, today or possibly tomorrow. This seems to be an attitude they share in all their dealings with life in general. IMO, it's just part of their belief in Buddha and his teachings. Of course, that's only an opinion and subject to change and/or error.

[aznyron]

let see what tuesday bring us as for the damage they are doing to there own country may be it time
for them to do it since they are being exploited in the job market working for 200 baht a day
which is less than 6 usd a day disgraceful and to ad insult to injury they hire illegals for less than
200 baht a day this is capitalism at it worst shameful

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Canadian newspapers are reporting that Thaksin has called for a revolution. If this is true, the situation is more than serious, it is going to reach a climax of sorts very soon.

Take care, and sawasdee phi mai.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

And here is the most recent story from Toronto's Globe and Mail. The violence has begun. Batten down the hatches!

AMBIKA AHUJA AND GRANT PECK

The Associated Press

April 12, 2009 at 8:14 PM EDT

BANGKOK — Thai soldiers unleashed hundreds of rounds of automatic weapons fire to clear rock-throwing anti-government protesters from a major intersection in the capital in the pre-dawn darkness Monday.

Forty-nine people were reported hurt in the first serious clash between the two sides in protests that have roiled this southeast Asian nation and came a day after the country's ousted prime minister called for a revolution.

While the government has declared a state of emergency, protesters controlled many streets in the capital Bangkok. They had earlier commandeered public buses and swarmed triumphantly over military vehicles in defiance.

In the starkest example of the chaos, a mob of the red-shirted protesters smashed cars carrying Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his aides.


Enlarge Image
Supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra attack the car of Niphon Promphan, secretary of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, at the Interior Ministry after they stormed it on April 12, 2009 in Bangkok, Thailand. (Athit Perawongmetha/Getty Images)

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00:01:12
Thailand in crisis

The capital of Thailand is in chaos as thousands of anti-government protesters roam the streets, attacking the prime minister's car. Security forces there are doing little to restore order.

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A summit of Asian leaders is cancelled after protesters stormed the venue

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Rioting follows state of emergency in Thai capital
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The clash began between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. Monday, as troops in full combat gear lined up and advanced to disperse the protesters, according to witnesses and television footage.

The soldiers fired hundreds of rounds from their M-16 automatic rifles as they advanced, though it was unclear whether they were firing at or over the protesters. Some witnesses said tear gas was also fired.

The official Erawan emergency co-ordination centre said 49 people were injured on both sides and taken to hospitals.

Protesters set fires that were still burning 1 1/2 hours later and retreated into side streets near the Din Daeng intersection, where there is an on-ramp to the main expressway leading north from the capital.

The clash appeared to be an isolated one, taking place several kilometres away from the main encampment of thousands of protesters outside the prime minister's offices.

Police General Vichai Sangparpai said up to 30,000 demonstrators were scattered around the city. Police vans at some intersections were abandoned and looted. Protesters used buses to barricade several major roads.

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, regarded by most of the protesters as their leader, called for a revolution and said he might return from exile to lead it.

Mr. Thaksin fled the country last year, before a court convicted him in absentia of violating a conflict of interest law.

“Now that they have tanks on the streets, it is time for the people to come out in revolution. And when it is necessary, I will come back to the country,” he said in a telephoned message to followers outside Mr. Abhisit's office.

The message was broadcast over a video link projected on giant screens and relayed on supporters' Internet sites.

Political tensions have simmered since Mr. Thaksin was ousted by a military coup in 2006 for alleged corruption and abuse of power. He remains popular in the impoverished countryside for his populist policies.

His opponents — many in urban areas — took to the streets last year to help bring down two pro-Thaksin governments, seizing Bangkok's two airports in November for about a week.

The emergency decree bans gatherings of more than five people, forbids news reports that threaten public order and allows the government to call up military troops to quell unrest.

Army spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said soldiers and police were being moved to more than 50 key points in the city, including bus and railway stations.

He said the military presence was not a sign of an imminent coup — a common feature of Thai political history.

Mr. Abhisit, speaking in a nationally televised address just before midnight, called on the public not to panic and to co-operate to end the crisis.

“In the next three to four days, the government will keep working to return peace and order to the country,” he said.

Protests were also reported in several provinces of northern and northeastern Thailand. The protests could prompt the military to intervene — a high possibility in a country that has experienced 18 military coups since the 1930s.

In an apparent attempt to dispel speculation of a breakdown in the security chain of command, Mr. Abhisit was flanked by Cabinet members and top military and police officers during the address.

“They have tried to spread the rumour that there is no unity in the operation of [security] officials,” he said. “We will try to continuously communicate correct information to the public.”

His government suffered a major humiliation Saturday when it failed to stop hundreds of demonstrators from storming the venue of a 16-nation Asian summit, forcing its cancellation and the evacuation of the leaders by helicopter and boat.

There were signs Sunday that the government might again not be able to contain the protesters.

Demonstrators swarmed over two armoured personnel carriers outside a luxury shopping mall, waving flags in celebration. An old lady atop one of the vehicles screamed “Democracy!”

Outside the Interior Ministry, a mob attacked Mr. Abhisit's car with poles, a ladder and flower pots as it slowly made its escape. At least six people were injured, including two security guards for Mr. Abhisit. Police in riot gear did nothing.

“The government can't do anything,” said Lada Yingmanee, a 37-year-old protester. “We will show them what tens of thousands of unarmed civilians can do. The people will finally rule our beloved Thailand.”

Demonstrators from the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship say Mr. Abhisit's four-month-old government took power illegitimately and want new elections. They also accuse the country's elite — the military, judiciary and other unelected officials — of undermining democracy by interfering in politics.

Parliament appointed Mr. Abhisit in December after a court ordered the removal of the previous pro-Thaksin government for election fraud, sparking Thaksin supporters to take to the streets. Their numbers grew to 100,000 in Bangkok last week

[UdonExpat]

The minimum wage in Udon is 157 baht per day. In Bangkok it's 203 baht per day. In Laos it is 348,000 kip per month (1,447 baht/mo or 48.25 baht/day). Capitalism at its best, Ron. That's what capitalism is all about. Making money, not paying a living wage. Unions help to provide a living wage. I agree it's shameful, but profitable for the business owners (yellows).

It's easy to see why the Thai's have an ample supply of illegal workers from Laos willing to work for less than the Thai. There are also many illegal workers from Vietnam in this part of the country.

It's always easier to blame someone else for your troubles than to take responsibility for them yourself. The Thai are no different than any other nationality in that department.

Short term damage may be worth the potential long term benefits in the eyes of the various interests competing for control of Thailand. Benefit from political change may be more important than short term inconvenience. You can easily see this point of view in the way demonstrations are organized here. Additionally, the rural populace (reds) have little investment in the tourist industry (yellows) and they (reds) can live in their villages with very little money. The middle class and above (yellows) are more dependent upon the economic system. Damaging your enemy's infrastructure is a tactic that may pay off in time.

I just hope that the legal immigrants don't get trampled on in the rush to judgment that invariably follows major political upheaval. Historically, I know of nothing recent where that has happened. Even when the Thai were killing each other in the past there didn't seem to be any blame directed towards legal foreigners.

There is a recent crackdown on illegal workers from neighboring countries. On demand visa times have been shortened and returns have been limited. Much as the on demand has changed for us. This is making it more difficult for Laotians and Vietnamese to illegally work here while having a valid visa in their passport. Now they have to stay here illegally and risk arrest when discovered, and then deportation.

Sorry for venturing all over, but the forces involved in the current turmoil are so varied and interesting that it's easy to get off the main track.

In the meantime, so far, the demonstrations have not inconvenienced me, but when I see a songtaew loaded with red shirts I try to stay ahead of them in case they decide to jump out and block the road.

[BKKSTAN]

Maybe it would help you Tilokarat,if you simply added majority,most or generally speaking as I obviously neglected to do!

I think I have made enough posts using those words for you to assume that is what I meant,but if you are looking to criticise,correct a lay a claim of bigotry,have at it!

[jackspratt]

The minimum wage in Udon is 157 baht per day. In Bangkok it's 203 baht per day. In Laos it is 348,000 kip per month (1,447 baht/mo or 48.25 baht/day). Capitalism at its best, Ron. That's what capitalism is all about. Making money, not paying a living wage. Unions help to provide a living wage. I agree it's shameful, but profitable for the business owners (yellows).

It's easy to see why the Thai's have an ample supply of illegal workers from Laos willing to work for less than the Thai. There are also many illegal workers from Vietnam in this part of the country.

It's always easier to blame someone else for your troubles than to take responsibility for them yourself. The Thai are no different than any other nationality in that department.

Short term damage may be worth the potential long term benefits in the eyes of the various interests competing for control of Thailand. Benefit from political change may be more important than short term inconvenience. You can easily see this point of view in the way demonstrations are organized here. Additionally, the rural populace (reds) have little investment in the tourist industry (yellows) and they (reds) can live in their villages with very little money. The middle class and above (yellows) are more dependent upon the economic system. Damaging your enemy's infrastructure is a tactic that may pay off in time.

I just hope that the legal immigrants don't get trampled on in the rush to judgment that invariably follows major political upheaval. Historically, I know of nothing recent where that has happened. Even when the Thai were killing each other in the past there didn't seem to be any blame directed towards legal foreigners.

There is a recent crackdown on illegal workers from neighboring countries. On demand visa times have been shortened and returns have been limited. Much as the on demand has changed for us. This is making it more difficult for Laotians and Vietnamese to illegally work here while having a valid visa in their passport. Now they have to stay here illegally and risk arrest when discovered, and then deportation.

Sorry for venturing all over, but the forces involved in the current turmoil are so varied and interesting that it's easy to get off the main track.

In the meantime, so far, the demonstrations have not inconvenienced me, but when I see a songtaew loaded with red shirts I try to stay ahead of them in case they decide to jump out and block the road.

It seems to me from this post that only "yellow shirts" own businesses, or employ people. How naive and simplistic.

What was it that the leader of the "red shirts" did before and after he went into politics?

[UdonExpat]

As a generalization, the yellows shirts are composed of the middle class, the business people and the royalists. The red shirts are the rural majority.

I know this is a generalization and doesn't cover all possibilities.

The man who many red shirts support was among the top businessmen in Thailand and became richer after entering politics.

You are welcome to draw whatever conclusions you wish.

[bumper]

Well Lee was kind enugh to post photos yesterrday in Udon. Seems Bangkok is active today. Has anyone any news concerning Udon? Sorry sick last night not much sleep so bit behind.

A friend called me yesterday and you know one of those sick puppies who reads and never posts He told me that this has effected him in one way, he is sad for Thailand. You can put me on that list as well ENOUGH SAID [-o<

Never mind got my report on Nam Prajak the fights on with water guns and buckets just like it should be =D>

[saint]

if its true that taksin asked his followers for revolution ,which was reported on the B B C this morning . whichever scumbag country he is holed up in , should deport him back to thailand , where he should face charges of high treason . followed , if found guilty by a swift execution . the man simply does not care one little bit about thailand or its people , but is quit happy to stir the pot for either revenge , or financial gain , quit happy to exploit the uneducated masses , irrespective of who gets hurt . i got caught up in a road block on the main road into town yesturday , the mob , and thats all they can be discribed as , certainly not demonstrators , where all liquered up and waving clubs about , the police were stood around scratching thier heads , even incapable of sorting out the traffic chaos . about as much use as a chocolate teapot !!!!!!!