NO MORE TORTURE

[BobHelm]

Combat is about protecting and saving your comrades in arms while trying to acheive a military objective,the war is about saving and preserving your Nation and your way of life against a threatening force!It is not a game of verbalizations,PC BS practiced by many and the BS UN!

So I take it that you have no issues with Al Qaeda using civilian aeroplanes as bombs and children as suicide bombers either then Stan??

[laphanphon]

man, i am playing catch up, haven't looked at this thread in a while.............and

The comments I attributed you to above re global warming were made by another.

think that was ME..........ME...........ME..............and no, personally i don't believe the problem is all that gloom and doom, and won't effect anyone i know living at this time. since my solution is the only practical solution, and the powers to be are simply destroying what they can as fast as they can for corp. profits, i really can't waste anytime or thoughts on something i have not control over. i'm not going to get a horse, or turn the ac's off. so if any of it is believable, i'm leaving carbon footprints all over, maybe i should by some alternatives, which do nothing and i'll really feel good about ME.

staying on topic, american intelligence community is now an oxymoron, pretty much making things up as they go along. i also believe most at Gitmo, were basically sold, or a competitor was removed. i'm sure a few are real freedom fighters, but with little knowledge worth torturing against the geneva convention. as it has made it's way thru the court system, most are being released due to no evidence, just have no where to go, so stuck in gitmo limble. some, too many innocent people been there for 7 yrs or so. welcome to america, land of the free, pursuit of liberty and justice.

conspiracy theory...........most know where i stand already, actually, i'm laying down now.........BUT, the 911 commission is about as good on investigating and getting the facts as the warren commission was.

it's against physics for a plane to bring down a steel/concrete building of the twin towers stature and construction, then 2 of them at basically the same time. lets see, the other 2 planes, yea, there were 2 more, sure. one flies an almost impossible trajectory, into one of the most secure buildings in the country, with more surveillance cameras in the area than most anywhere, and not one video, or even a pic. and the plane vaporizes, wow, that's good, and doesn't even hit one utility pole on the way. and number 4, hmm, again, crashes with no evidence of a crash, oh, that vaporization thing again.

where i have a problem, those planes flew around for 80 minutes, reported as possible hijack, and no military response, in one of the most restricted air spaces in the country. yet prior to that, military responses where less than 10 mins, and 100 % in the past. oh that's right, cheney was in the control room that day, running the exact same scenario as the so called attacks, as a military exercise. no coincidence there.

my other problem is, if the 2 planes didn't crash, where are they...............did they ever exist, if so, that's a big question and quite a few missing people.

911 commission..............follow the money trail, who profited..........sorry, not important, .....of, building 7 falls down by itself..........irrelevant......must of been a windy day...............and i saved the best for last, 2 planes bring down 2 buildings, so hot, they melt the titanium engines parts, but, at the bottom of the pile..............a passport of a terrorist, still intact, man thats good, and, he is still alive in his home country and hasn't got a clue how the passport got there, oops, guess they forgot to kill him first.....................sorry, just too many questions and no believable answers from the gov't. which leaves......................

who made billions of dollars, and what saudi family is represented by the bush family, and were allowed to fly out of the country when no other aircrafts were allowed in the air.

torture, i can think of a couple people i would love to torture to death.

[seymourbutts]

"Somebody already said it,''War is a crime'' and the war against relatively small groups of guerrilla terrorists that are probably on the verge of having WMD's at their disposal means that the ''goalposts need to be changed to suit'' the needs to combat and defend against this major threat!"

WMD That old chestnut!!!!!!!

"It is my belief that the info ''extracted''so far by whatever means has probably prevented massive amounts of 9/11 type attacks!I am and always be thankful for the Iraq and Iran actions taken by the last administration with the exception of the defense dept.leadership under Rumsfield.I would have liked to see a military specialist in charge of both."

No useful info ever was extracted from any prisoner so far!!!

"Either way the goals of preventing possible WMD's from reaching these terrorist cells was reason enough for the Iraq invasion and putting Al Queda on the back foot with the possibilty of demolishing them was a good enough reason for Afghanistan!"
WMD again!!!

"This is not a game,political ot theoretical!This is about defending against those who have no rules,those that are intent on inflicting as much ''terror'' as possible by any means possible!I say if they threaten us or attack us,take it to them in any manner needed to win! "

Yeah right!!! Take it to them alright, just give em 6 weeks head start first!! makes the game much more excitin and over dinner with his best mates mummy and daddy bin laden are saying "hes not a bad boy just mis-understood, thankyou for understanding georgie porgie!!!!

[aznyron]

man, i am playing catch up, haven't looked at this thread in a while.............and

The comments I attributed you to above re global warming were made by another.

think that was ME..........ME...........ME..............and no, personally i don't believe the problem is all that gloom and doom, and won't effect anyone i know living at this time. since my solution is the only practical solution, and the powers to be are simply destroying what they can as fast as they can for corp. profits, i really can't waste anytime or thoughts on something i have not control over. i'm not going to get a horse, or turn the ac's off. so if any of it is believable, i'm leaving carbon footprints all over, maybe i should by some alternatives, which do nothing and i'll really feel good about ME.

staying on topic, american intelligence community is now an oxymoron, pretty much making things up as they go along. i also believe most at Gitmo, were basically sold, or a competitor was removed. i'm sure a few are real freedom fighters, but with little knowledge worth torturing against the geneva convention. as it has made it's way thru the court system, most are being released due to no evidence, just have no where to go, so stuck in gitmo limble. some, too many innocent people been there for 7 yrs or so. welcome to america, land of the free, pursuit of liberty and justice.

conspiracy theory...........most know where i stand already, actually, i'm laying down now.........BUT, the 911 commission is about as good on investigating and getting the facts as the warren commission was.

it's against physics for a plane to bring down a steel/concrete building of the twin towers stature and construction, then 2 of them at basically the same time. lets see, the other 2 planes, yea, there were 2 more, sure. one flies an almost impossible trajectory, into one of the most secure buildings in the country, with more surveillance cameras in the area than most anywhere, and not one video, or even a pic. and the plane vaporizes, wow, that's good, and doesn't even hit one utility pole on the way. and number 4, hmm, again, crashes with no evidence of a crash, oh, that vaporization thing again.

where i have a problem, those planes flew around for 80 minutes, reported as possible hijack, and no military response, in one of the most restricted air spaces in the country. yet prior to that, military responses where less than 10 mins, and 100 % in the past. oh that's right, cheney was in the control room that day, running the exact same scenario as the so called attacks, as a military exercise. no coincidence there.

my other problem is, if the 2 planes didn't crash, where are they...............did they ever exist, if so, that's a big question and quite a few missing people.

911 commission..............follow the money trail, who profited..........sorry, not important, .....of, building 7 falls down by itself..........irrelevant......must of been a windy day...............and i saved the best for last, 2 planes bring down 2 buildings, so hot, they melt the titanium engines parts, but, at the bottom of the pile..............a passport of a terrorist, still intact, man thats good, and, he is still alive in his home country and hasn't got a clue how the passport got there, oops, guess they forgot to kill him first.....................sorry, just too many questions and no believable answers from the gov't. which leaves......................

who made billions of dollars, and what saudi family is represented by the bush family, and were allowed to fly out of the country when no other aircrafts were allowed in the air.

torture, i can think of a couple people i would love to torture to death.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[merchant seaman]

The American Gov't hijacked 4 planes flew them into the world trade center, the pentagon, and one crashed inPa. just to make money. YOU MUST BE OUT OF YOUR MIND!! Enough said to someone so ignorant. Move to Iraq.

[seymourbutts]

ok then how do you get a boing 757 into a 13ft diameter hole???? look at the pentagon photo's before the roof collapsed!!! then maybe you can tell me how they did it!!! the tail is 44 ft high and the wings span and the engines... i really dont think so!!! aslo a book on a chair still open in clear view afetr the collapse, the windows close to the hole are not even broken??? Do you wonder why people question the truth here??/ its obvious to anyone that you cannot get a plane that big into a hole so small!!! when 2 planes just took out 3 buildings this plane couldnt take out a window pane of the building it hit!!!! Why is it you people rubbish us for merely questioning these facts!!! what are you scared of???
oh yes they find the dna of every passenger within 24 hours but they forgot the hijackers dna!!!

out of maybe 50 cameras at the Pentagon only one working at a petrol station!!! why is it wrong to question this???
How does a terrorist fly a plane into the pentagon and make it look like a cruise missile hit it??? Very mischieveous i think!!!

So you take the mickey out of Ron and the like but reality is you dont know the truth here and you wont ask because like JFK for instance you just accept it (like a sheep)and ridicule anyone that questions it!!!

[seymourbutts]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm

All you believers i was too until i saw this video.... now it just needs one thing not right for the whole day to be an inside job!!! really where is the plane??? The same size as hit the towers and this one never even took out the windows or burnt a open book not 10 feet away from the impact!!!! The "Pentalawn" pristine after the incident????? videos confiscated and covered up!!!

Is it wrong or looney to ask these questions??? i think its looney not to ask!!!

[laphanphon]

just to make money

we invaded a country, responsible for killing over half million people, for no reason, on false intelligence, not mistaken intelligence, and made billions 'rebuilding' it............somebody did, was that for money, or to keep america and the rest of the world safe. i feel safer. with record profits, a couple oil companies has just knocked a couple big boys off the top list of fortune 500, instability creates fear, which creates high profits for oil company's...................hmm, oil companies, a couple names and countries come to mind. imagine that. the middle east will never be stable, and has never been more unstable than it is. saddam actually was a good balance. keeping the sunnis in control of iraq, why do you think we supported him for so long. new game plan, money to be made. change regimes, shiites, hmm, and iran is run by ........................... can you spell more 'instability', more 'war mongering' more 'profits', when was the last war that wasn't about money. not in my life time. vietnam, the size of california, and we couldn't even keep one city in half the country safe, for over 15 years, think anyone made money prolonging that mess. armaments are expensive and paid for. iraq, piss small country, 20 mill people, been there how long, how much money, and can't even keep the green zone safe. any money being made there..................billions.

nah, nobody would thing of doing anything like destroying the economy, bailing out millionaires, creating a never ending cycle of deficit that feeds itself, and the central bank is making billions, just printing and lending the money to whoever is dumb enough to take it. billions of dollars is no motivation at all.

everything is done for god and country................and you call me ignorant.

torture, the only people are being tortured, are the idiot taxpayers allowing the big boys to F 'em, again and again and again. never be afraid to ask questions, but be afraid of the answers to them.

because what they are shoveling isn't the truth. not even close, believable, or physically possible.

ah............seymourbutts.............well said =D> =D>

[seymourbutts]

Yes LA but without the 9/11 billions and billions would have been lost in these contracts!!!! So step back and ask why did we invade iraq, was it something in any way to do with 9/11??? would iraq have been invaded without 9/11????? Was 9/11 a stroke of luck for these big defense contractors mainly bush/chaney allies or even owned!!!!! what were these contractors doing before 9/11??? were they still viable as there were in reallity no big customers out there...

i know what my answer is!!!!!

[aznyron]

Haliburton = Cheyney oil = Bush family some how that picture does look rather suspicious
especially when they refused to go under oath and be questioned alone and the great 9/11
commission allowed that but WJC had to go under oath over a B/J some how that disturbs me

[seymourbutts]

Haliburton = Cheyney oil = Bush family some how that picture does look rather suspicious
especially when they refused to go under oath and be questioned alone and the great 9/11
commission allowed that but WJC had to go under oath over a B/J some how that disturbs me

Hey ron, this is a series of 15 films of about 10 miniutes all about 9/11, i believe they add up to evidence of an inside job, just too many coincedences, too many questions etc etc anyway have a look and tell me what you think!!! and i suggest anyone else would be interested in these films so you can put it to bed!!!!

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm

[arjay]

I see this topic is about Torture!

One more off topic question - which is stronger, steel reinforced concrete or airplane wings?

[westerby]

I see this topic is about Torture!

One more off topic question - which is stronger, steel reinforced concrete or airplane wings?

It depends on the load you apply to either and how you define 'strong'.

Lock it up, no use in talking about 911, we've done that to death.

[laphanphon]

what were these contractors doing before 9/11

the numbers are staggering. pre and post iraq. revenue increases, political donations/contribution, lobbying, then more contracts, and then billions of dollars worth. really is amazing, then the fraud, overbilling, deception, caught red handed stealing one way or the other...............and nothing.

also some recommended viewing, iraq for sa'le', 'zeilgeist' (try to get past the groovy music and light show in between segment), 3 parts, last 2 are excellent, 1st one deals with religion, a bit boring, but can be an eye opener to those that don't know. and if you really want to appreciate the war on terror, 'AKA, tommy chong' too funny, and sad, what resources are wasted in the quest for a high profile arrest.

[arjay]

I have to say it's torture reading this, primarily due to the fact that it meanders over so many different topics, as usual.

[westerby]

I have to say it's torture reading this, primarily due to the fact that it meanders over so many different topics, as usual.

I'm happy to counsel you once you've locked this one up, I'm actually a very understanding person.

[westerby]

What's wrong, have you lost the LOCK button?

[arjay]

Seriously, as this thread is now a mess of material spanning so many different topics, I do think it best to lock this one and then any members who wish to continue to discuss any of the following, and keep their posts on topic, can do by starting an appropriately named topic for whichever one:-

The arguments for torture e.g waterboarding
American Politics XXI
9/11 revisited
9/11 a conspiracy
Political Donations
The war with Al Queda
Was the invasion of Iraq a mistake

[Irish Alan]

To any newcomers Conspiracy Theories was covered a while back: http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/c ... t9558.html