Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

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Irish Alan
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Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by Irish Alan » May 12, 2009, 4:46 am

I've been following this for the last few weeks. I thought our lot were good and I'm sure they are taking tips from their Westminster neighbours. My favourite is the MP that paid a hunter to catch moles in his garden. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Fury over lavish MP expense claims

By David Stringer, London

Saturday, May 09, 2009

PORN MOVIES. Horse manure. A chocolate Santa Claus. Expense claims by British lawmakers to pay for an array of items were exposed yesterday, stoking public anger over lawmaker excess amid the global recession.

Britain’s Daily Telegraph published details of claims related to 13 ministers and offered examples of hundreds of other bills submitted by lawmakers to parliamentary authorities.

The documents revealed how some lawmakers used lax regulations to accumulate hefty bills to pay for housing taxes and costs of furnishing homes, while others claimed for trivial amounts – including a packet of ginger snaps worth about €1, two cans of cat food and an ice cube tray.

One lawmaker claimed the cost of servicing the swimming pool of his country home, while another paid for a hunter to catch moles who’d invaded his garden, according to the newspaper.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown – then Britain’s treasury chief – paid his brother Andrew £6,500 (€7,200) for cleaning services between 2004 and 2006. Brown’s office said the leader’s brother had handled payments for a cleaner the two men shared.

Peter Mandelson, who claimed £2,850 for his home, before quitting as an MP and selling it, said the claims were for essential repairs. He reportedly went on to sell the property for a £136,000 profit.

The Telegraph revelations include Communities Secretary Hazel Blears claiming three different properties within a year were her "second home" – the first her Salford constituency, the second two in London. MPs can claim up to £24,000 a year towards the costs of their second home.

Figures released to Parliament show that the 646 House of Commons legislators claimed £93 million in allowances and expenses last year.

Under Parliament’s rules, legislators can claim expenses for a second home and expenses incurred when staying away overnight from their main home. They can claim rent, for example, or mortgage payments and furnishings, such as drapes, carpets and electrical goods.

The price for such furnishings were colloquially known as the "John Lewis list," named after the upscale British department store chain. The list is being axed under reforms of the system currently under discussion.

Lawmakers had long refused to offer receipt by receipt breakdowns of their claims for public money, until a ruling under freedom of information laws ordered them to make the details known.

About two million receipts for claims by legislators will be published in July under the ruling, but the newspaper said yesterday it had obtained the material ahead of its planned release.

Members of the public complain the expenses system is too generous, isn’t independently audited and follows rules drafted by the lawmakers themselves.

"There can be no greater proof of the need for urgent and wholesale reform of MPs’ expenses than the fact that so many people at the top of government have been making such dubious claims," said Matthew Elliott of the lobby group the Tax Payers’ Alliance.

Justice Secretary Jack Straw claimed the cost of housing taxes he’d never actually paid – though later reimbursed authorities. In a handwritten note explaining his mistake, Straw wrote that "accountancy does not appear to be my strongest suit".

Culture Secretary Andy Burnham urged authorities to speed up an expenses payment. He told parliament’s fees office "he might be in line for a divorce" if he didn’t receive the money quickly.


"The system doesn’t work," Brown told the BBC. "I’ve said it doesn’t work, it’s got to be changed."

Britain’s prime minister makes about £189,000 a year, while most lawmakers make about £61,000.

By comparison, US legislators in Washington earn a base salary of $174,000.

A key concern for critics of the system is how lawmakers routinely switched the house they called their primary residence. Those changes meant they could claim second home allowances – like the costs of furniture, decorating and repairs – on several different properties.

Other bills show how lawmakers were prepared to claim even small amounts, including a carrier bag that cost 5p, a chocolate Santa Claus-shaped snack priced at 59p and a tape measure costing 43p.

In March, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith acknowledged she’d claimed the costs of two pay-per-view porn movies watched by her husband.

Conservative leader David Cameron said: "I completely understand how angry the public are about this and we desperately need change.

"I have argued for a long time that we’ve got to cut the cost of the expenses regime..."

The Telegraph declined to say how it received the expense pay information.

It says it will publish MPs’ claims from other parties within days.

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, May 09, 2009

http://www.examiner.ie/world/fury-over- ... 91323.html



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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by beer monkey » May 12, 2009, 4:51 am

In March, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith acknowledged she’d claimed the costs of two pay-per-view porn movies watched by her husband.
Ohhh the embarrassment.... how i laughed when that story broke...and then them having to face the cameras :lol:

They are all at it and have been for years the cheeky monkeys..... :fryingpan:

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by seymourbutts » May 12, 2009, 12:49 pm

Yesterday it turned out the tories were as bad if not worse, and the ridiculous thing about is the commons are angry, very angry, not about the claims but about the leak to the press of the claims!! and want tax payers to foot the bill for a full police enquiry into the leak!!!!!

With local elections coming up on 4th june theres gonna be some serious heartbreak me thinks!!! It could easily be that people vote for mp's by their expense bill and not their party!!!!

Sinn Fein who dont attend parliament collectively claimed 500,000 grand for second homes in england!!!!! Talk ahbout taking the p1ss..

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by Irish Alan » May 15, 2009, 4:11 am

I wonder at what point this becomes fraud... :-k :-k :-k

If you stole money then paid it back would the CPS say oh that is okay anyone can make a mistake... :-k
Tory MP quits post over expenses

Conservative MP Andrew MacKay has quit as parliamentary aide to David Cameron over what the party said was an "unacceptable" expenses claim.

He claimed most of the second home allowance on his London home, while his wife, Tory MP Julie Kirkbride, claimed the full amount for another address.

Mr Cameron has said all Tory MPs must be able to defend their expenses.

In a separate development Gordon Brown announced that ex-minister Elliot Morley has been suspended from Labour.

And the Conservative former minister Douglas Hogg has said he will repay £2,200 in expenses - the cost of clearing a moat at his Lincolnshire estate.

He argued the costs were included on paperwork submitted to the fees office but were not claimed. But on Thursday he acknowledged the clearing was "not positively excluded" from the claim.

'Unacceptable'

The Conservatives said Mr MacKay had voluntarily submitted his expense claims to party officials and these had revealed "an unacceptable situation that would not stand up to reasonable public scrutiny".

Mr Cameron told BBC News: "It is not enough just to say the system is to blame. Consequences have to follow."

In 2007-8 Mr MacKay claimed £22,575 of the second homes allowance while Ms Kirkbride claimed £23,083 - the maximum permissible.

Mr MacKay said they had both claimed the allowance on two separate properties "for eight or nine years".

"Although Mr MacKay maintains that those arrangements were agreed by the fees office, he resigned this morning with immediate effect," said a party spokesman.

He said he had followed the advice of the Commons fees office but he now realised the arrangement did not pass Mr Cameron's "reasonableness" test and he felt it was "wrong" to remain in his position.

He told the BBC: "Due to an error of judgement in accepting advice from the fees office I have let a lot of people down.

"I passionately believe in Parliament, in our democracy, and I think it is very important that members of Parliament are held in high regard."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8049614.stm


Report reduced
Brown suspends mortgage claim MP

Former minister Elliot Morley has been suspended from the Parliamentary Labour Party after claiming £16,000 expenses for a mortgage he had already paid off.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the decision was taken because of the "serious" nature of the allegations.

Mr Morley said the claim had been a "mistake" due to "sloppy accounting" and said he had paid the money back.

Conservative MP Andrew MacKay earlier resigned as aide to David Cameron over an "unacceptable" expenses claim.

Another Conservative MP, Douglas Hogg, is to repay £2,200 in expenses after admitting the clearing of his moat was "not positively excluded" from a claim as he had said.

Fellow Tory Greg Barker - the shadow climate change minister - has said he will pay capital gains tax on the sale of both properties he has owned in London since becoming an MP.

He said his claims and tax affairs had been "scrupulously within the rules" but he said "what counts" was "the trust and good opinion of my constituents".

It comes after the latest round of revelations in the Daily Telegraph about MPs' expenses.

Mr Brown said he was "very angry about what has happened" on MPs' expenses.

In a speech as he launched Labour's European election campaign, he said: "Where there is irregularity now it has got to be dealt with immediately. Where standards have been transgressed and the evidence has been shown to be there, action has got to be taken.

"Where disciplinary action is necessary, it will and will immediately be taken."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8049096.stm

Report reduced
Last edited by Irish Alan on May 15, 2009, 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by westerby » May 15, 2009, 4:13 am

Irish Alan wrote:I wonder at what point this becomes fraud... :-k :-k :-k
Fraud to me is when you pay off your mortgage but continue to claim up to £16000 from the State.

The Press are loving this.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by Irish Alan » May 15, 2009, 4:20 am

Exactly, seems pretty fraudulent to me.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by BobHelm » May 15, 2009, 8:50 am

In any company I have ever worked for claiming expenses that you are not entitled to has always resulted in instant dismissal. No "pay it back if you are caught, because Oops I am sorry it was a mistake" - the sack & no compensation. These people (politicians) have the responsibility for millions of Pounds of taxpayers money. If they cannot be trusted & are caught in this manner then they should instantly be de-barred from politics for the rest of their lives & all their pension perks removed!!

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by JimboPSM » May 15, 2009, 9:33 am

BobHelm wrote:In any company I have ever worked for claiming expenses that you are not entitled to has always resulted in instant dismissal. No "pay it back if you are caught, because Oops I am sorry it was a mistake" - the sack & no compensation.....
Bob, in general I agree with that, however the interpretation of what one may be "entitled" to could often vary substantially according to the level an individual occupied in an organisation.

It has always been part of the accounting rules at companies that I have been at that expenses should go through an authorisation and payment system where the management can clear any questionable areas before payment is made.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by saint » May 15, 2009, 10:03 am

i really dont know what all the fuss is about ..... polititions dishonest , scamming the system , false accounting on their expenses ? been happening for years people !!!! and you can bet your ar~e that when the dust settles on this one , they will have another scheme in place to pick up the slack . i do like bobs post though . can you imagine that happening in thailand ? they wouldnt have any politicians left !!!!!!!! one of us would have to run the country !!!!!! but having read some of the suggestions by members on a similar thread a while back about what they would do if they were in charge . ill go with a bent politician every time .

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by seymourbutts » May 15, 2009, 4:59 pm

So if i robbed a bank today, and for some reason got caught!!! Then its ok to pay the money back and get off scot free!!!

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by old-timer » May 15, 2009, 5:18 pm

seymourbutts wrote:So if i robbed a bank today, and for some reason got caught!!! Then its ok to pay the money back and get off scot free!!!
seymourbutts, ..yes i'm afraid so, in certain places that is it, to fight aids and malaria the global funds for Uganda was 212 million dollars, the ministry for health ate this money.they are the people running around in gulfstreams !

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by saint » May 16, 2009, 7:46 am

that would be flying around in gulfstreams !!!! but alas mr butts you are incorrect with your assumption , you will only get away with it , if you are in a position of power and trust !!!!! if you are a peasant like most of us , you will pay the highest penalties under the law , laws that are made and enforced by people in positions of power and trust !!!!!! nobody said life was fair did they ? so my advice to you would be , do not get caught . :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » May 16, 2009, 8:19 am

Saint, over the past few weeks your posts have been right on the money, to the point and thoroughly entertaining and funny. Great stuff to read.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by westerby » May 16, 2009, 3:47 pm

Irish Alan wrote:Exactly, seems pretty fraudulent to me.
Fat Al, I don't know if you're still Blighty side or not but 'Have I Got News For You' really went to town on this subject last night, it was like manna from heaven for satirists. Alan Duncan took a particular pasting for saying the things he said on the show two weeks ago and then fessing up to the bill for his garden.

As they inferred on the show, MPs were quite happy to submit expenses for dubious claims until a time they were exposed when they changed their tune by stating that the system was wrong all along. I wonder whether the public will indicate its displeasure by voting for other Parties in the Euro elections, such as UKIP. This is something that Norman Tebbit has urged voters to do this week on Radio 4.

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by BobHelm » May 21, 2009, 9:41 am

Well this one seems to be going to run and run.
The Speaker of the house has resigned - something that has never happened before in English politics - because of his constant obstruction to releasing the MPs claims.
The abuse of the system includes many prominent members of parliament from both of the major political parties and has shown the House of Commons to be full of the sleaze bags that many already believed were there.
The result in the Euro elections will undoubtedly favour UKPA as voters react to the established parties.
Here is a blow by blow account, along with the 'excuses' given...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8039273.stm

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by Zidane » May 21, 2009, 11:07 am

westerby wrote:
Irish Alan wrote:Exactly, seems pretty fraudulent to me.
Fat Al, I don't know if you're still Blighty side or not.
I didnt know you knew Alan,westers......Oh dear,is the regular supply of Guinness at Temple Bar taking its toll ? :D

But,back on topic.....this is fraud.If the ordinary man in the street did it we would be charged and prosecuted.We certainly wouldnt be told dont worry just pay it back and youll be OK.
A fair proportion of these MP's have commited blatant fraud.....will they be prosecuted.....no way !
Just like the PAD protesters who occupied Suvarnabhumi in December wont be prosecuted.
So the UK isnt too disimilar from Thailand really,is it ;)

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by trubrit » May 21, 2009, 4:56 pm

In the UK we do have a "Proceeds of crime" act. Introduced initially to claw back the vast amounts accumulated by drug dealers, and subsequently enlarged to include the proceeds of any criminal act. So the law is already in place for a successful prosecution and sentence for the crime, then an order to repay in full the proceeds of that crime. This can include the seizure of ALL assetts, houses, cars and money in bank acounts wherever in the world it is. It excludes only the suit of clothing worn at the time of arrest.
Failure to pay this forfeiture notice automatically brings a further period in jail of 5 years without remission on top of the original sentence, for amounts exceeding 500k sterling.
Now that could get interesting. :-"

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Re: Fury over lavish MP expense claims. (British Politics.)

Post by beer monkey » May 21, 2009, 5:10 pm

Daily Telegraph reports...
Sir Peter Viggers has become the third veteran Tory MP to announce he will quit over expenses claims, reported to include a £1,645 taxpayer-funded floating "duck island" for his pond.

The former minister was given a quit-or-be-expelled ultimatum by party leader David Cameron on Wednesday night after his second home gardening bills were among the latest claims to be published by The Daily Telegraph.
Some Ducks.

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