To All Americans who want justice

[aznyron]

http://pepib.convio.net/site/PageServer ... e=homepage
indict GWB for crimes he committed in office do let this one slip by get involved if you agree with me

[tutone]

In principle I agree with you, BUT! I just think that "W" wasn't quite smart enough to know what was going on. There's a lot of people in his administration that kind of had him on a string. It's hard to prosecute someone for ignorance or indifference. IMO.

[jackspratt]

http://pepib.convio.net/site/PageServer ... e=homepage
indict GWB for crimes he committed in office do let this one slip by get involved if you agree with me

Ronnie, can Australians have a dog in this fight?

Love to see him spend 7 years in Guantanamo - not that that requires to to be guilty of anything. And a touch of waterboarding - which of course, is not torture

And then perhaps render him to one of the hell holes in Egypt or Uzbekistan, for a bit more useless torture, to extract the sort of information only he would be capable of giving ie brain dead. =D>

[aznyron]

jack I wish the world could vote on his guilt or innocence I would have no doubt he would be found guilty & hung before the world he disgraced the USA in many ways

[tigerryan]

It's not wise to to carry on like this.

I would never consider public office nor would most in a time where many think with a straight face feel that jail, hanging, death of some sort is a suitable outcome for you political adversaries.

I dislike President Obama politically but wish him and is family well. I believe the legacy he and his administration will leave on our country will be the economic enslavement of our children and the condemning of many of our oldest retired folks to raising inflation and certain poverty in a failing economy that is willingly being accelerated over a cliff.

[BobHelm]

I tend to agree with tutone. GWBs worse offence was the people he picked to aid him in his decisions. People who sadly failed both him, the American people & the rest of the world.
Despite all the rumours I do not believe that GWB was an evil man, just rather out of his depth (a little like Jimmy Carter before him).
Very magnanimous of you tiggeryan - condemning the new President after 100 days & no comment on the failings of the last President after 8 years - but I guess that will come as no surprise to regular readers of your posts....

[tigerryan]

Bob, I suppose you will need to drink the entire sea to know what it tastes like, for me just a mouthfull will do.

[BobHelm]

You are absolutely correct ryan I am a great believer in giving people an even chance before condemning them.
I have no idea if President Obama's home policy with massive bailouts is the correct one (I actually have a sneaking feeling that it is not - but he is following on from what GWB was doing on this front). In his foreign policy I do actually see a great many positives, and nothing of a negative basis. But - as I said before, too early to tell....

However, ryan, you & me both drank the full sea of 8 years of GWB & I have made my comments, I would actually be interested to hear your opinion of his presidency....

[tigerryan]

Ok here are my first stab at my problems and failures of the Bush administration.

For not pulling out of the Korean Peninsula (I would support maintaining a 100 year lease on Osan air base.)
For providing amnesty for illegal aliens and not completing a wall on the southern border something akin to the Berlin wall.
For not simplifying the rules of engagement for our wars allowing soldiers to modify and employ reasonable rules established in the field that accomplish the mission while protecting and holding the safety and welfare of our soldier at a level that is more important and virtuous than the enemy's and the enemy's civilian population.
Extremely disappointed in President Bush for not attempting to eliminate capital gains taxes and for not establishing a more regressive system of taxation the punishes under achievement in its citizens
For not eliminating the harmonized tariff schedule on imported goods.
I also would have appreciated a direct repayment program or confiscation of Iraqi oil revenues for investment in the capital infrastructure in Iraq not related to the war.
For supporting the governmental programs that allowed citizens access to funds or loan guranties for purchasing homes.
For not more aggressively pursuing tort reform as it related to medical malpractice and the repayment of legal fees for those that do not prevail in claims

[TJ]

Nice list tigerryan. But IMO Bush's major and most disastrous failure was his appointment of two liberal and statist USSC justices. Bush and the GOP politicians promised that his USSC justice appointments would only be those with a history and public commitment of applying constitutional law IAW the U.S. Constitution. This was THE promise that fueled hope in the hearts of most of his voters. As we know, neither of Bush's appointments were constitutionalists and were warmly accepted by statists and the extreme left .

Reagan's biggest failure was not accomplishing the promised elimination of The Department of Education and all related Federal policies, funding and regulations. That was THE great hope of his followers. This failure has had far worse consequences than his outspending Jimmy Carter and advancing U.S. involvement in the mid-east. Obama is part of those consequences.

[jackspratt]

Ok here are my first stab at my problems and failures of the Bush administration.
<snip>
For not simplifying the rules of engagement for our wars allowing soldiers to modify and employ reasonable rules established in the field that accomplish the mission while protecting and holding the safety and welfare of our soldier at a level that is more important and virtuous than the enemy's and the enemy's civilian population.
<snip>
I also would have appreciated a direct repayment program or confiscation of Iraqi oil revenues for investment in the capital infrastructure in Iraq not related to the war.
<snip>

That is pretty rich tiger.

Illegally invade a country (Iraq) for completely spurious reasons, and subsequently:

- designate them as the enemy, and allow the invading forces to run amok pretty much as they see fit

- make them pay for the illegal and spurious invasion of their country (which is what I assume you mean by "direct repayment program")

Instead of focussing on Bush's multitude of failures, I would put forward one of his very few achievements - turning the US away from the hard-right nuts who had run the place for 8 years.

[laphanphon]

oh yes, the left nuts did a much better job. invaded a sovereign state for no reason, ruined a robust economy, sharing that with the rest of the world, and killing their own citizens to get the ball started, and sending so many others to the death, and somehow, getting the allies to follow.

sorry, i'll take the prior 8 yrs of right wing nuts any day. ......... morning Jack

[aznyron]

I am not going to debate the 8 years of GWB what I am going to say is he lied to the world to get us in to two wars I also hold him responsible for 9/11 two planes can not take down 3 buildings I will not go in to that debate on this thread but will gladly debate it on another thread the over whelming amount of
U.S. citizens who no longer trust him & his political party and many whom believe as I do that he is
a war criminal and should be placed on trial to defend his actions of killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of Iraq citizens who only crime is being a Iraq citizen as well as sending our troops in harms way and causing the lives of over 3000 U.S. Servicemen/women all for the sole purpose of looking like a war President and the oil for his cronies in his business adventures

[BobHelm]

Thank you for the comprehensive list ryan.
If this is still your 'wish list' then I can see why you do not expect Pres. Obama to set your world on fire... I think Pres. McCain would have struggled seriously as well...

[jackspratt]

oh yes, the left nuts did a much better job. invaded a sovereign state for no reason, ruined a robust economy, sharing that with the rest of the world, and killing their own citizens to get the ball started, and sending so many others to the death, and somehow, getting the allies to follow.

sorry, i'll take the prior 8 yrs of right wing nuts any day. ......... morning Jack

Morning LA.

Are you having a laterality disorder day? ie confusing your left and right nuts

[BKKSTAN]

My thoughts are that if the Clinton administration had not gutted the CIA,we might have had good intel on Iraq initially to know the Saddams actions were just blustering and that he did not have WMDs.

I do believe that Bush-Cheney were sincere in their efforts,although making many mistakes and many successes!

The biggest mistakes were allowing Rumsfield to make the the military decisions versus a competent Military person and not understanding the culture of the Mid Eastern region!

I agree with Cheney,the events aftert 9/11 called for extraordinary plans and actions.We now had an enemy that would be impossible to defend against under the ''normal rules'' of war.Immediate answers were needed from many enemy sources to seal up and prevent more of the same in the near term!
Since these perps are programmed to believe that martyrdom is the ultimate,shame embarrassment,mind alteration and fear instilation techniques were called for and necessary IMO!

The fact that no more attacks within the borders of the USA is proof enough for me! =D> =D>

[BobHelm]

My thoughts are that if the Clinton administration had not gutted the CIA,we might have had good intel on Iraq initially to know the Saddams actions were just blustering and that he did not have WMDs.

I am not sure if this was the case Stan....I think American Intelligence had, for quite a long time, relied on information supplied by the British Intelligence Service for information on the middle east. This was for quite a few reasons, one of which is that America had access to very few people of an Arab extraction who could work and supply 'ground information'. Sadly both the British & American Services came to rely on Arab 'dissidents' to provide information. Some of these people are undoubtedly honourable individuals, some are patently obviously not & were little better than Saddam himself. The one thing was for certain - they all had 'an axe to grind' against Saddam & it is doubtful that any of them would say anything to aid him, even if it was the truth.

[jimboLV]

Ron, I am surprised that you would fall for this obvious scam. Looking at the web page, the main thrust is SEND MONEY, just like the religious organizations that you rail against. They seem to have a well organized system for selling merchandise. Reminds me of the "Impeach Earl Warren" scam of the fifties, which was nothing more than a fund-raising scheme by the John Birch Society. It would be interesting to see who is behind this fund-raising movement. i would wager that you might find ACORN's sticky fingers somewhere. If you respond and send them your address, you will be flooded with SPAM from all sorts of interesting flaky sources. But somehow I suspect that you are already on most of those mailing lists.

[aznyron]

JimboLV no I do not send money and will not my reason are obvious I do not give any credit or debit info to any organization if I was to send money it would be in a check only. You know it funny I was watching Cspan few years back and the John Birch society was giving a seminar at some college and I found my self agreeing with them any way getting back to the topic I will watch & see were it go's if I do see some real action then I will send them a check. I got this in a email which was also sent to Attorney General as well as many prominent people in Washington DC along with the Secretary of State former first lady so it looks genuine to me but only time will tell and I am all for prosecuting the Bush administration as well as GWB to BKKSTAN he could not have gutted the CIA reason is the R. had control or both house for 6 years of his
8 years of his administration. it seem all you R. always go back to WJC to lay the blame. GWB is so deep in to lies & corruption as well as murder and you all keep defending him shame on you

[tigerryan]

Ron you are asking for a former president to be hung? Ron the shame is all yours.