Starting a business in Udon

[immortal1977]

Dear forum members,

I have been a member for some time, but never posted a topic here so I am still quite new
My name is Dave, 32 years, living in Holland and working in Dutch travel business. I have a Thai girlfriend for 6 years now and we are living together in Holland for more then 3 years.

Every year we go back to Thailand at least once and we are just a few days back from our last trip. I stayed some days in Udon as well like every year as my girlfriend comes originally from Ban Dung where we always stay at their farmhouse.

Every time we have to go back to Holland we feel sad and that makes us thinking what we can do to begin something in Thailand. As the business in tourism is not that good at the moment, it will be quite difficult for me to find a good job in the Thai tourism business. And because I am already 32, I know that they will prefer a Thai native with one third or one fourth of my salary. So what else can we do to make a living in Thailand ?

As Udon is quite close to my family in law we would like to begin some business in Udon. We saw that there is a new farang barstreet near the Charoensri Shopping Complex and there are some bars for sale there. We already called for information about one of these bars and I think the selling price and the monthly rent is quite reasonable. So at the moment we are finding out if it's possible to take over one of these bars. We know that it's low season now and that the economy is quite worse, but maybe that's a good thing to take over something now as the economy will going to attract again.

Besides only running this bar I also want to start organizing trips through the Isan and to Laos and Cambodia. As being a travel agent with a lot of travelling experience through all parts of Thailand and some parts of Laos this should not be a problem to set up. Laos will be booming in the future and more and more farang (especially the repeaters) would like to travel in the Isan. We have a Lao friend in Luang Prabang studying for a tourguide so we will cooperate with him to set up nice trips for farang.

I think that many farang already living in the Isan will tell me not to begin a bar, but I think it's maybe the last way for us to come to live in Thailand. When we have our own bar and live in Udon, it will be more easy to look for some other options.

I hope there are some Udon expats here on this forum to help us and give us some good advices.

Thanks in advance !

Dave

[BobHelm]

Dave,
Very good luck in starting a business here in Thailand.
Personally I would think that taking over a bar is a way of losing money & not generating an income. There are just far to many bars in Udon chasing far too few customers. To lease & rent a bar without living accommodation is, in my opinion, just a complete waste of money. If you have a place at a reasonable rent with good accommodation then at least any customers you do get will subsidise your accommodation costs.
Even when Thailand was buzzing there would not have been enough customers for the number of bars in Udon for them all to make a profit. I cannot ever see those days returning to Thailand - for a variety of reasons.
With the exception of a very few Farang run establishments in Udon I doubt if many even make enough to cover their expenses, let alone generate an income. The establishments that do probably make a living out of it are all well established & provide quality food as well.

[beer monkey]

Welcome Dave, Not easy making money from a bar/rest, but how about utilizing the same premises as a tour centre also.

[laphanphon]

if it was a successful business or bar, it probably wouldn't be for sale. on the bar scene, there are too many already and they are changing hands constantly. not the best idea, if only as a hobby. keep thinking though, but i would strongly recommend not investing in any bar.

[BKKSTAN]

Imo ,if you were able to take a poll of all retail type businesses that falangs are involved in,I would venture to guess that less than 5% make an income sufficient to support yourself!I believe that the majority actually lose a majority of their investment.
Are you sure that you have a good business model and understand how business is conducted in Thailand and the differences between doing business in Holland versus Thailand?Do you understand that competition is difficult here,the falang customer base is very small and fickle,Thais have ''face'' involved ,locals deal with locals,not foreigners!
Thailand is good for retirement living and inexpensive living,not for making a living!If at 32,your future is secure financially,want to come a have a hobby business to play with,fine,come on over and spend your money,otherwise you will probably waste your most productive years here and have a hard time in the future!

[aznyron]

Dave here is a opportunity for you I do not know how much income you can generate from this business but I can tell you you will be the only one and that is the dry ice business no were in Isaan you can buy it the closest that I know of is in Bangkok and there a place in Silom BKK that will sell you the machine to make it do a google search I did but my family is not interested other wise I would be looking more in to it
good luck and take Bob advice bars are a loosing business here

[Khun Paul]

Dave noted all the other comments, I agree a Bar is a no go area and you will lose money. Any business you start needs to have Thai as well as farang customers, as no business I know will survive on farang only customers. also you need to have Thai partners and the farang can only have 49%, setting up a company is not that hard, you need a Thai accountant who knows there way around the many offices, starting money and a good business plan.
As for travel agent/tour operator, we have a few, don't know how good/bad they are but you may be able to find out.
A business that WILL provide you with an income needs a good customer base not dependent on tourists be they Thai or farang.
Hope that helps sorry to be bearer of bad news, I am sure there are businesses here that could do well, me I would not know which ones would, but a bar is sort of bottom of anyones list.

[Shado]

Somebody is selling dry ice in Udon; I think. Everytime we buy an ice cream cake at Dairy Queen, they pack it in a box that has little "pockets" at each corner and are filled with dry ice. Perhaps the dry ice is a Dairy Queen exclusive, but it is certainly here. I would also say that I have seen it no where else, but then I've had no reason to look for it.

[trubrit]

Don't listen to the doubters Dave, you can make a lot of money in the bar business. Not running them, selling them. Ask a certain Aussie guy.Alternatively buy or lease a reasonable size plot of land, fairly central. Put up a not too expensive structure. Call it a bar complex. Sit back and wait for all the punters come running to give you their money. First for key money, which should recoup your costs up to then. Then look forward to a monthly income as they pay their rent. When they find they can't pay anymore, simply repossess including all those nice expensive fitments. Then you can find a new tenant and charge him a higher rent because its all been fitted out. Joking? Not likely. I know a man

[parrot]

[quote="trubrit"]Don't listen to the doubters Dave, you can make a lot of money in the bar business. Not running them, selling them. Ask a certain Aussie guy.Alternatively buy or lease a reasonable size plot of land, fairly central. Put up a not too expensive structure. Call it a bar complex. Sit back and wait for all the punters come running to give you their money. First for key money, which should recoup your costs up to then. Then look forward to a monthly income as they pay their rent. When they find they can't pay anymore, simply repossess including all those nice expensive fitments. Then you can find a new tenant and charge him a higher rent because its all been fitted out. Joking? Not likely. I know a man [/quote]

Sounds legit to me!

[aznyron]

Somebody is selling dry ice in Udon; I think. Everytime we buy an ice cream cake at Dairy Queen, they pack it in a box that has little "pockets" at each corner and are filled with dry ice. Perhaps the dry ice is a Dairy Queen exclusive, but it is certainly here. I would also say that I have seen it no where else, but then I've had no reason to look for it.

==========================================================================================
I will have to stop in there to see if they will sell it and who provides it thank you shado

[beer monkey]

But would there be enough Business to go round in Udon if someone is already providing it to the i-scream sellers... What is the demand i wonder.

I think you got to look at things that people need to buy also...like clothing or food etc.

Or a Travelling Go-Go bar...

[saint]

dave , maybe your just suffering from post holiday depression , and your G /F is feeling a little home sick . there is about a 5% chance of you starting a business and actualy making any money in udon . thats if you can come up with something original that both thais and farangs will patronise , and a bar or restaurant is a definate no no . your a young man , with i guess a decent job that includes benefits . are you really prepared to gamble that away on a dream .... because to be blunt dave thats what having a profitable business here is , just a dream . unless your exectionaly lucky . do you feel lucky dave ? i can count on 1 hand the farangs in udon who have been successful in business . im not talking about the people that play at business , im talking about the ones that have put their lives into it , and non of them are wealthy , and they all work their ar~es off . if you are absolutely adament this is what you want to try , then i suggest you set yourself a time scale and a budget , and stick to it . do not burn your bridges , so if you do fail , and the odds are you will , you still have time left to get back to holland and salvage what would be left of your career . think long and hard .

[Shado]

aznyron wrote:

"I will have to stop in there to see if they will sell it and who provides it thank you shado"


Ron: Try the Dairy Queen at Big-C. That is where we got the most recent ice cream cakes. I asked the wife if she knew of somewhere in town that sold dry ice but she didn't know.

(I think we are moving off topic. Sorry.)

[rickfarang]

Dave,

Consider two things:

1) How difficult it is to make a going business in your own country, where you understand the language and the culture, and

2) That you are getting advice from retired people. Personally, I believe there is money to be made in the hospitality field, BUT NOT THIS YEAR, and probably not next year either.

Your best chance of success will be in a business that you are familiar with and which relies on customers in your country of origin. Don't by somebody else's problem (such as a bar) and hope for the best. Do your homework!

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[Casper]

Dave,

I agree with RF do your business plan. Even talk to the company you work for now after you have done all your home work.

P.S. I have not seen any farang travel/tourist agents in Thailand. Last I heard they were trying to stop the farang dive instructors taking people out around Phi Phi.

Good Luck.

[BKKSTAN]

I have known 2 falang travel agents in Thailand,Peter,who had been in the Travel agency business in Bangkok for many years before I came to Thailand>I don't know anything about his business ,but I know he was networking and connected to many of the owners,managers of Several GOGO bars in Bangkok which gives me thought about several possibilities as far as his business was concerned!

The second is a German,Carston,in NK.He has had a small resturant for many years in NK,well known by all the local expats and I know many people book airflights with him.There are a few ''Travel to Teach'' programs centered here that use him for their client bookings!

In Chiang Kahn,I know about a European man,Dutch or Belgiam I believe,whose wife runs a guest house and he arranges or does tours out of Bangkok for Europeans,according to her,I have never met him !

[Al]

Have you considered an online travel agency similar to ebookers, expedia etc. one where you can actually search book and pay for your flights, hotels, car hire etc. online.

Not that I would have a clue what is involved personally.

Al.

[immortal1977]

Thanks for all your reactions, I had expected these kind of reactions and I really appreciate your honesty.

laphanphon, it was a beauty salon before, but because this owner already has a bar opposite this beauty salon, she wants to get rid of this former beauty salon.

bkkstan: I know that locals deal with locals and not with foreigners. But my girlfriend will run the bar en she is a real local (amphur ban dung), speaking Thai, Lao, English and Dutch.
In Holland I've just a small salary but life is same every day and I don't want that until my 65th or something. With all the high living expenses in Holland, there is not much left at the end of the month so I won't be rich in Holland as well.

And yes saint, I am suffering from a post holiday depression....it always begins at the moment I leave Thailand and it stops at the day when we arrive in Thailand again
No,seriously, before our holiday we were already thinking about moving to Thailand, so this not just came up after our holiday.
Several times I already applied for a job in Bangkok, but to be honest I don't prefer BKK as my future location. As said before, Laos will be booming in the future. Many tourists to Asia, especially the repeaters, want something else as Thailand, they've seen all the highlights already, and they want to discover the Isan. So I think there might be a possibility here, first arrange a trip through the Isan (Ban Chiang, Ban Kamchanot, Nakhon Phanom, Phimai, Phanom Rung, Thai homestay) and then to Laos (e.g. Udon => Vientiane => Vang Vieng => Luang Prabang) or Cambodia.

I don't expect much, don't need any luxury in Thailand, we just want to live in Thailand, because it's my girlfriend's home and I feel home there. And yes, I know it and I realize this, holiday in Thailand is not the same as working and living in Thailand. But now I'm still quite young, I have to try something now, when it's not working, we can always come back to Holland and find a job.

I know some Dutch travel agents in Thailand, like Greenwood Travel, Vieng Travel, Win-Win Asia, Bangkok Biking, Special Journey. As far as I know they are all under Dutch management.
Al, thanks for the idea, maybe I have to start an online bookingsite like ebookers. I will find out what my chances are if I set up a website like this. In Holland I currently work for Vliegtickets.nl, a similar website and an easy online tool to book your online plane ticket, hotel, car etc.

A lot of people have dreams and would like to follow their dreams and change their lives. Most of them are too afraid to really do so and give up everything they have, some of them follow their dreams and will find out if they're successfull or not. If you not try anything, you will never come far at all. Sometimes you've to try something in your life......

But I see that a lot of you are living in Udon or around. Can I ask you then....are you all retired or having good jobs in/around Udon and earning at least 60,000 Bt nett per month ?

If we've our own business in Udon one day, you're all welcome to drink a Singha or Chang with us, I would like to meet you and hear all your stories about living in the Isan.

Thanks again for your advices and your time,

Dave

[Roy]

Dave,
I think many of us could guess the location of the beauty salon and as the others have said, it's a dead duck.
The internet business is also very had to do here as I am led to believe that Thailand based websites find it very hard to gain approval from the major credit card companies as they have to guarantee the transaction and Thailand is on their risk list. Can't do much business unless you get paid!

But on a more positive note I believe if you really want to give it a try then do it. If you find a bar with accommodation then, as previously suggested, any sales will reduce your living costs but just don't bank on it making a profit or even covering your costs.

If it all goes wrong you are young enough to return to Holland and start again and you won't be sitting there wondering about what could of been for the rest of your life.

Just my humble thoughts.