House made of steel...some assembly required.

[AussieBoy]

http://www.bluescopesteel.com.au/go/bui ... se-framing

Started building steel frames back in 1974 using BHP Lysaght system same as Farang 1, back then it was 1.0mm or 1.2mm thick and only ever welded, now days its 0.75 and riverted or 0.6 for non load bearing, to seet he full scope of the system go to bluescope, they bought out Lysaght some years ago.

In oz the have a machine that makes up the frames on a continusly roll jig, and rivert machine putting out 2mt a minute pre made frame, so you can get the wall lengths up to 12mt in one piece , Zinalume and not gal is used, and dont put the steel frame on the raw concrete the acid eats the bottom plate away and causes rust, that will be 10 plus years down the track, you need damp proof course under the frames, that is the Oz buildcode standard.

Lastest cost in oz is timber is cheaper, a home just priced cost to make in steel frame roof frames, walls frames riverted system was AU$18,500 devilered, in timber frame roof was Au$15,000, the home was a 195Mt2, 115 linear metres of wall frame and trusses to suit

there is still a market for steel ,it is always straight, about $1200 extra in labour to erect and for all the trades to fix to, so the average home in steel is about $4000 more than timber, it has some good avantages listed on the Bluescope site, but less than 3% of homes are built in steel mainly due t the cost of the steel system, a fully welded frame allows some larges spans and in some cases steel framing is used, using plaster board on timber or steel its hard to pick the difference, now days timber studs have about 5 - 10mm camber in them, which you cant see when the sheeting is fixed,

They promote termite proof and fire rating, but timber has a dip coating for the temites and if you use a timber weather board for external cladding, makes no difference,if you light up the cladding, it still burns, such that the steel just bents and collaspes, but the timber frame burns and chars, the char helps protect further burning of the studs and will still be standing in a given fire test.

So its six of one and half a dozen of the other

As timber is expensive in thailand, a local frame plant would be able to build a cheapr frame than timber,
you can have 75 or 100mm frames made with the bluescope system.

I did a square metre an linear metre cost for my home back 18 months ago with timber trusss

Some may remember My Udon Home, must get around to finishing it, spent 6 months this year in Thailand, GF wants to visit me in oz for chrismas, so I wont be in udon till dec 2010, spent some time lifting the home up higher and doing the volunteer work in Chaing mai

Heres my cost for the frame Oct 2007 in dress timber
Costings for wall framing, material 75x40mm @B45mt x 550mt = B25,000 delivered
Nails bolts fixings, strapping screws----------------------------------B05,000
Plywood bracing 12 sheets 2440x1220 x 3mm b200x 12----------B02,500
Labour 3 x crew days b1300------------------------------------------B04,000
------------------------------------------------------------------Total B36,500

Costings 60mt2 per square metre floor area ---------------------Bt 600

Costing per linear mt wall-------------------------------------------Bt 900 @2.7 wall height

Costing per Mt2 wall @ 2.7 height----------------------------------Bt 360

Add about 15% more for material and labour now , that would put the Wall frame at about Bt 1100 a linear metre for a 2700mm high wall, with average 120 Lin mt of wall frame for a 200 mt2 home, thats about
Bt 245,000 for the timber frame nuts bolts and labour to erect it, using machine dressed and sized local timber. Thats wall frame not roof.

[Farang1]

dont put the steel frame on the raw concrete the acid eats the bottom plate away and causes rust

That was something that was never mention by anyone that I talked to before. What do you put down between the concrete and steel? Would it be to late to do something about it now?

you need damp proof course under the frames

Is this what you were talking about and what is it?

[AussieBoy]

Good to see some altenative system being used, I think steel frame is the way of the future for Thailand, in a light weight frame, just need some one to start to make them locally to take off, VERY fast system.

The rust /concrete is a problem, secondary class long term, some frames are bitumen painted on the bottom plate, others use Damproof course/ heavy plastic sheet, comes in rolls, the 150mm wide roll is best, yes if you forget to put it under the frames, you loosen the tie down blots and cut the barrier in short strips, use a pinch bar to lift the frame 2mm and slide the barrier under, generally 2 pinch bars will do the trick, as there is not much or a building standard, you wont hve to worry about some governmen inspector faling the frame, But play it safe and spnd a few hoursputting the barrer in place, even with a roof on you can still lift the frame. try Global house for the barrier, its less than a 1mm thick

When you do the wiring, make sure the frame is earthed a well.

[arjay]

That was something that was never mention by anyone that I talked to before. What do you put down between the concrete and steel? Would it be to late to do something about it now?

Heavy duty PVC, (off a roll, - like rubbish bags are made of, but thicker), or something like roofing felt used in the UK under roof tiles, would surely work. I don't know what is available locally though.

[AussieBoy]

http://www.bluescopesteel.com.au/go/bra ... -brochures

Download the Technical Bulletin TB 34 - Steel House Frames 4 pages to see detail of the flashing barrier

DOnt forget the electric wiring, and other services when run through the frame, that a grommet be used so as not to cut the wiring, even if the wiring is in the wall the sound and wind vibration will cause the steel to cut through the wiring some years later, we had it happened when the electrican did just that and not use a gromet for the wiring, took 6 years for the wind sound vibration on the frame to wear the insulation away. same with coper or plastic,pipes ETC
HAVE A GOOD OF THE TECH NOTE TB 34

[bluejets]

Hi Kally,
Bushings we use here are black plastic lock-in type. Usually come in a few different sizes but common size we use is 25mm. Bore hole with hole saw and drop-in bush from the top. If not used, the cable will rest on the steel edge and if it doesn't cut through like you said with vibration, it will definetely eventually "melt" through the insulation. Not sure what causes this melting effect as it happens in light loaded circuits as well. Perhaps just insulation deterioration after years of resting on an exposed edge. (Even evident in plastic j-boxes)
Also we use about 300mm strip of the flashing barrier directly behind all GPO's and light switches where they are exposed to the sisalation on external walls. Definetely earth the frame, required practise here is also to run a mesh earth to bathroom.

[Farang1]

Thank you, gentlemen, for you info and advice. They had installed plastic bushings in the holes for the wires and plumbing. I am going to be needing more holes in other places so, will be looking for more bushing to install. It is going to be an interesting project to be lifting the frame to put the material under it.

2 issues I have to deal with are plumbing a electrical. Plumbing isn't to bad. I just need to make sure the drains have traps and are properly vented. The electric is another story. I am by no means an electrician but, I do understand the need for grounding and bonding. But, not being in counrty, how can I be sure the Thai electrician does and won't cut corners? Even if I was there, I wouldn't know if things were done right. I have heard of being energized by taking a shower.....

I am headed back to UTH in October for 2 weeks. Unfortunately, I arrive a couple days after the NM meeting. I need to learn to plan a little better.

Again, thank for your help.

[LoongLee]

Farang1,,,, I don't know what your schedule is but I absolutely would not let the workers close in/apply interior wall cover (sheetrock etc) if I was not in Udon. Make the time to find and hire a second good electrician to inspect/double check all electrical work.

[BKKSTAN]

Dropped by the site yesterday to fill my curiosity as I have absolutely no construction experience ,nor any good mechanical or building expertise!

It was a wet messy day,so no work was going on,but I could see your problems with the foundation work,as there were ''puddles'' of water on the foundation,showing some obvious low spots and unevenness.Alot of bricks shims around and the work crew laying about under tarps while raining!

with the rain and mud,it probably wasn't the best day for an inexperienced eye to visit a building site

One thing I noticed was there is no shade around the house and very little overhang from the roof to help with alot of openings for windows in place.Did see a few black grommets in some holes and what seemed to me to be alot of metal scrap laying about!

Kind of reminded me of a kids large erector project at this point

The project manager and 5-6 other persons were on site.The manager wasn't very talkative,so we didn't get much info from him other than this was house number 5 in Thailand for him,he seemed kind of bored,probably from waiting out the rain

Looking forward to further developments with your project and wishing you all the best!!!

Not only am I curious about the viability of the building,I keep wondering what the bottomline costs are going to be,so I look forward to your future posts as everything progresses along!

Thanks for sharing your project with us

[Farang1]

Farang1,,,, I don't know what your schedule is but I absolutely would not let the workers close in/apply interior wall cover (sheetrock etc) if I was not in Udon. Make the time to find and hire a second good electrician to inspect/double check all electrical work.

Yes, that makes much sense, I wasn't going to have them close it up until I had a look at it.

Our building schedule is, we build till we run out of money, let the account replenish. Then, build some more. After my October visit, I won't be back until April. Gotta be there for SongKran. So, I'll give them little projects to do to keep some activity around the site.

with the rain and mud,it probably wasn't the best day for an inexperienced eye to visit a building site

Sometimes an inexperienced eye is better by questioning what you are looking at.

Kind of reminded me of a kids large erector project at this point

Is how I've always looked at it.

probably from waiting out the rain

They are suppose to be putting on the roof. If they got it done, they could be out of the rain.

[BKKSTAN]

Well I don't know if they finished putting on the metal roof supports or not as there were bundles of them still on the floor!I thought they might be some type of small rain gutters until I looked up and saw them used to form the roof.

The roof tiles were outside still in ''neat stacks,looked untouched to me!

What is your plan for shade ?

[Farang1]

SHADE......

Maaaybee lots of banana trees around the house.

Haven't really thought that far ahead. I think I am doing good to get this far.

I'll see if they have some fast growing trees like maples that are indigenace to Thailand.

[laphanphon]

was there with Stan, can't add much, for shade, they do have one tree that grows rather fast, though haven't got a clue what the name is. eucalyptus grows very fast, but not much leafage for shade. they seemed to have filled in most of the shim areas under the metal.

as Stan, will be interested when project done and bottom line for basic finished construction, a great thread and please keep it going. thanks.

[parrot]

A wise man once told me, the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago. If you weren't able to plant then, then now's the time to start. I'd start with a few TohnKhun trees (the ones with yellow flowers in April). They grow fast and tend to be strong. Neem trees also grow very fast. You can get some fast growing palms....much better than banana trees. A jackfruit tree or two would be good for the yard. All depends on how much space you have.....but if you have the space, better to overgrow now....you can always cut back later. One hot season in your house (March-May) without any outside shade, and you'll regret not planting sooner.

[PeterBlythe]

Hi All,

I'm Peter Blythe, and I work for a company called FRAMECAD Solutions, the company who supplied the machine to the Philippines company who produced the walls and trusses for your job.

I really love the Blob that you have put together for your build.

The design looks great, and I'm looking forward to the final photos.

Farang1 I think I may have spoken to you on the phone and had a couple of e-mails back and forth from you in regards to the frame supply. I trust all is well now?

Anyway, if anyone has any questions about the Light Gauge Steel Frame in regards to engineering or applications, please feel free to contact me.

I'm happy to help out.

I'll have a good read through the whole blog over the next few days and see if there is anything I can add to the discussions.

Cheers
Pete

[Farang1]

They have started on the roof. Looks like they are attaching the facia and have some of the roof tile loaded.

A wise man once told me, the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago. If you weren't able to plant then, then now's the time to start. I'd start with a few TohnKhun trees (the ones with yellow flowers in April). They grow fast and tend to be strong. Neem trees also grow very fast. You can get some fast growing palms....much better than banana trees. A jackfruit tree or two would be good for the yard. All depends on how much space you have.....but if you have the space, better to overgrow now....you can always cut back later. One hot season in your house (March-May) without any outside shade, and you'll regret not planting sooner.

Yes, that is ever so true, Parrot. Thank for the info on the trees. That'll give me one more project to do when I am home. My father-n-law is a bit of a horticulturist. He has been asking when he can get started on our yard.

Neem trees, I hear are helpful to ward off mosquitoes. Someone told me that the tree behind our property in a neem.

[Farang1]

I have no idea what possesed them to encase the porch posts in concrete.

Looks like I am in for some trouble down the road.

[PeterBlythe]

Talk about extensive rio-bar work!!

[aznyron]

as retired carpenter who did some metal framing in offices back in the states I see no advantage in using it on curtain wall since you can use the 4" block for your curtain wall and metal studs for interior walls which it would not require so much floor strength and the walls would take up less space inside the dwelling
there could be a plus factor if you framed the metal studs over the 4" block walls for insulation such as a
R 11 2x4 wall would really keep the house cool but remember the ceiling needs a R 30 which is approximately
10" or 25 CM and don't forget to VENT it

[Farang1]

remember the ceiling needs a R 30 which is approximately
10" or 25 CM and don't forget to VENT it

Yes, They are going to rough frame for the vent while they are doing the roof. I was planning on having insulation blown in. Thank you for the R value. I wasn't really sure.