EMS First Responder

[LoongLee]

Unfortunately Gents,,, the situation in Thailand places foreigners especially between a "rock and a hard place",,,,,,,,, both points are valid,,, the humanitarian impulse could place the financial well being of the farang and his Thai family in dire straits. sad ,,,, hope I'm never faced with that choice,,,,

Trubrit,,,, would it be possible to forward the concerns expressed on this forum to the course organizer and have the hospitals legal department start the course with an explanation of Thai law re those concerns? LL

[beer monkey]

Even if you attend and learn a few life saving tricks (in between coffee breaks)... , that can't be bad can it....they may well come into use one day if you *'choose' to utilise them on someone, could even be a close friend or family member..., but you could be anywhere in the world.....still useful knowledge imo....whether you use it or not at times.


*I used the term 'choose'....as we know you gotta think of the outcome in some cases..., its a jungle out there...tit and all that.

[trubrit]

Unfortunately Gents,,, the situation in Thailand places foreigners especially between a "rock and a hard place",,,,,,,,, both points are valid,,, the humanitarian impulse could place the financial well being of the farang and his Thai family in dire straits. sad ,,,, hope I'm never faced with that choice,,,,

Trubrit,,,, would it be possible to forward the concerns expressed on this forum to the course organizer and have the hospitals legal department start the course with an explanation of Thai law re those concerns? LL

Well for me there is no choice to make. I consider the fact of helping another human being far outweighs any financial consideration. I have seen many posts on here critical because a private hospital refuses treatment until payment is assured. Surely if you start worrying about liability you are no better than them.Human life is sacred. It has no monetary value, especially to the wife and kids of the unfortunate victim. You can never recover from death, but with prudence you can get over a financial lose.As for asking the Doctors the legal aspects . No one is forcing you to attend. No one is twisting your arm to learn how to help your fellow man. Its up to you. I hope you never have to say "thank you"to some one who thought differently to you .I am grateful for the Dr's and nurses time in teaching me to be a better citizen.

[LoongLee]

Trubrit,,,, I'm sorry if I touched a raw nerve,,,,,, I respectfully submitted my humble opinion regarding the situation there in Thailand. I don't see where I wrote that I wouldn't help a person in need,,,, I said I hope I'm not faced with that decision. Maybe your response was directed at the wider forum audience and not directly at me. I certainly don't see the harm in having the seminar/class address the issue so that folks attending can make informed decisions? What's the harm?
To your future health,, LL

[jimboLV]

Trubrit,,,, would it be possible to forward the concerns expressed on this forum to the course organizer and have the hospitals legal department start the course with an explanation of Thai law re those concerns? LL

Every EMS course I have ever attended has included a section on legal responsibilities. I would expect that is the topic of the first session listed "Emergency Medical Service In Thailand". The main thing they teach a first responder is what NOT to do, e.g. DON'T move the victim unless in imminent danger (trapped inside a burning vehicle).

From some of the posts, I think too much is being read into this. They are not attempting to qualify the trainees to perform amputations, emergency brain surgery or heart transplants in the middle of the road. They are merely trying to educate on the proper care until qualified help arrives. This includes reassuring the victim, keeping the crowds away, and keeping untrained personnel from attending the victim. That's why they teach about spinal boards, stretchers, KED, and other such equipment: so you will recognize what needs to be done and prevent it from being done improperly. I don't think they expect the trainees to drive around with a fully equipped emergency vehicle.

I once had a disastrous skiing accident resulting in a spiral fracture of both bones in my leg and severe lacerations and bruises. The first responders (ski patrol) fortunately were properly trained. They did not touch or move me, assured me that help was on the way, recognized that I was going into shock (if I had a gun I would have shot myself) and covered me with blankets. They also chit chatted, got my name, assured me that it wasn't all that serious (they lied, but it made me feel better). They then assisted the qualified medical staff, when they showed up, in getting me on a skid and getting me to the infirmary.

So i would strongly recommend this course. It could as a minimum save YOUR life or that of a family member, if it's anything like the ones I have attended. If nothing else, it reassures you in case you or your loved ones are ever involved in an accident or disaster.

[seymourbutts]

I think people are forgetting that the ultimate aim here is for farangs to help farangs in a medical emergency!! So that there is a native speaker at the patients side... Nobody has said this is to treat stupid idiot thai drivers and riders who dont have one ounce of road sense!!!! That is where i would suggest that you doubters and me decide wether to help or not, but helping a fellow farang, no contest!!!! and i would be very very glad to have a farang with a basic knowledge of cpr etc at the scene if i have a medical emergency..

[BobHelm]

Excellent post jimbolv.
Brings the course TB mentions back properly into perspective.
The 'not what to do' in order to help is undoubtedly as vital as the 'physical actions' undertaken.
I would think, if at an accident scene, telling others NOT to do the wrong things is vital until professional help arrives...

[rjj04]

Yeah, jai yen yeh I do think when you imply we civilians have a moral obligation to help another that is equal to a Doctor or a Nurse, well, that is a bit much don't you think? I personally would probably try and help somebody in need, despite the risk, but this is not a black and white issue, like most things in life. Anyway, I had not realised the possible backlash here was that bad, I know in the USA you are running a risk.

Take the course (if interested and you are allowed to), and make the decision at the moment. It might be a loved one you need to save, and then certainly there is no choice in the matter.

[banpaeng]

I would like to present a different side. Most of the falangs are taught tCPR/First Aid in ones home country. It is not something taught all around in Thailand. My wife knew nothing of CPR until we came to the US. If this is true of your spouse then I would suggest you attend so that your spouse could help YOU or a family member in times of distress.

Weather you use this on the general populace is your own choice. I will not even go to the legal issue as I do not know.

However I do want to help my family, so would take the course to make sure my spouse could assist me when in trouble.

[wazza]

Sorry been in transit from Kazakhstan. I'm skeptical as I have taught trauma medicine to the thai emt system . Not even worth starting cpr unless from time of collapse to arrival in er is more than 10 min. Why ? Coz they don't carry defibs and if they did nurses by law can't defib. Basic stuff like haemorrgage control is worth it. What is the qual cert ? And who issues it ? Or is it a cert of attendance only.. I might pop in and have a look . Ps I have ACLS . ITLS and a couple of other cents etc.

[Bandung_Dero]

It's not only the legal aspect, you guys have lived in Thailand long enough to know that the Farang will get blamed for ANYTHING at the first chance they see of extorting a Baht.

Sad inditement, all I'm saying is tread very carefully.

Me, my 1st year and very naive came very close to getting stung trying to help a couple of motorcyclists. Long story but the bottom line was an old lady grabbed me by the arm and near on threw me into my car whilst yelling at the gathering crowd, told me in no uncertain terms to get out in a hurry.

[papaguido]

It's not only the legal aspect, you guys have lived in Thailand long enough to know that the Farang will get blamed for ANYTHING at the first chance they see of extorting a Baht.

That's exactly my point. I have received plenty of first aid or EMS training during my 20 plus years of serving in military, but as I stated in my earlier post it depends on the circumstances . I would be very cautious and selective on what actions I would take should I decide to render any kind of medical assistance. Whether moral or immoral I wouldn't put myself in a position that's going to come back on me.

With that said I also believe that basic EMS training for anyone is invaluable in the following circumstances:

I would like to present a different side. Most of the falangs are taught tCPR/First Aid in ones home country. It is not something taught all around in Thailand. My wife knew nothing of CPR until we came to the US. If this is true of your spouse then I would suggest you attend so that your spouse could help YOU or a family member in times of distress.

Weather you use this on the general populace is your own choice. I will not even go to the legal issue as I do not know.

However I do want to help my family, so would take the course to make sure my spouse could assist me when in trouble.

[seymourbutts]

So let me see....... Doubters understandably worry that if they help a thai it comes back on them i see, me and others want to help another faramg in need...

So doubters is this ems training worth doing, or are you saying dont do it just in case?????
Wazza you are going for a looksie, so afetrwards and maybe you decide its not so bad they are teaching basic sensible stuff.... too late for the doubters to get it as its finished... mmm

i reckon just go if you learn one thing its worth it!!! with the added security that wazza im sure will point them towards any errors in a very face saving way of course!!!

really there is no debate on whether to go or not its just whether you have the time!!!

[trubrit]

So let me see.....


really there is no debate on whether to go or not its just whether you have the time!!!

and of course the inclination.

[Bandung_Dero]

......
So doubters is this ems training worth doing, or are you saying dont do it just in case?????
..............

Grow up Seymour!
You might have noticed a few of the doubters are ex military including myself and have probably had much better training than YOU will ever get here seeing the way these so called professional EMS guys work. Hope your newly found medical skills serves you proudly and doesn't turn around to bight you on the arse!

[trubrit]

Here we go again .Can anyone explain to me how a simple invitation to attend a couse on EMS can degenerate into a slanging match. Other than that seems to be the norm on here these days. Actually I have just heard that with the ones that were interested from the forum added, the course is full . Maybe its time to lock it ?

[laphanphon]

so, i'm guessing your vote would be to keep mods around...............

very nice heads up though Val, somewhere down the line you may have saved a life. =D>

[banpaeng]

Per the OP request.

[RALPHCUSENS]

I attended the course yesterday, but due to the low attendance, it was cancelled, (only two of us turned up).

To clarify the point a lot of posters have identified as a worry if they stopped to assist at the scene of an accident,that they could be held responsible in the event of a lawsuit, the following is the response I received, on asking the question to Dr Prachaksvich Lebanak, the Deputy Secretary General of the Emergeny Medical Institute of Thailand.

The Emergency Medical System Act 2008, states that persons having attended and passed a EMS First Responder Course and holding a current Certificate, is given full protection under this Act!

This course is being re-arranged, and hopefully, more of us will attend, from what I saw, this appeared to be an extemely well organised event,and conducted in English, and I believe that it would be benificial to all, even those of us that have had previous first aid training, and its Free, and an International Buffet Lunch is provided each day! And there is no strings attatched!!!!!!

Sorry mods, I have posted in the wrong thread, maybe you could move to the EMS First Responder thread, cheers!