Hi R.C, The last time I was in Udon,(Aug./09) I visited a couple of places. One being Global House, and I can't recall the name of the other place, but it was just down and across the road from Global. I'm 99 per cent certain I saw styrofoam sheets in one or the other places. As for the glue, it can come in the cartridges you mentioned, in sprays, or in a can and then you would brush it on. Just be very certain that it's water-based or at least contains none of the oil based thinners that I mentioned before, and you should be okay. With regard to the reflective material you're referring to, I haven't used it myself. It sounds good in principle, but someone here posted that because it's foil it's conductive so I think I would want to find some way to ground it if I was going to use it.Ray.Charles wrote:Homer, where should I find the foam boards…..Global House, alternatives? For gluing, I am assuming that I will find glue cartridges and a gun.
Would you recommend using some reflecting material in addition to the boards, especially under the roof?
Insulation
Re: Insulation
Re: Insulation
Attached is a photo of the underside of a small outdoorsey restaurant roof up the road from our home. It's a rolled steel roof with a ?1/4"? of foam cemented to the underside of the roof. The foam has a foil base.
I go to lots of noodle stands.....some with thatch roofs, some with the long panels of cement tile (elephant), and some with plain tin roofs. I'd put the roof on this noodle stand in the same category as a grass thatch roof.......pleasant to sit under, even on a hot day. It doesn't come with air conditioning, but it will help keep you from sweating bullets while enjoying a bowl of hot, spicy soup
I go to lots of noodle stands.....some with thatch roofs, some with the long panels of cement tile (elephant), and some with plain tin roofs. I'd put the roof on this noodle stand in the same category as a grass thatch roof.......pleasant to sit under, even on a hot day. It doesn't come with air conditioning, but it will help keep you from sweating bullets while enjoying a bowl of hot, spicy soup
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Re: Insulation
parrot it really is interesting that such a small amount of insulation can block radiation. Although if that spicy soup is up to Thai standards you should be sweating bullets even with air conditioning one would think. 
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Ray.Charles
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Re: Insulation
“I visited a couple of places. One being Global House, and I can't recall the name of the other place, but it was just down and across the road from Global.” ...Homer. The other place was probably Home Pro.
Parrot, that insulation on the roofing sheet could be an option for me; but it looks like that it was sprayed (?) on to the sheets before they were installed. In my house, the roofing sheets are already installed. But, I may take a look at that roof.
Meanwhile,….
Compared to places in the colder regions, it seems to be an upside down world here. In the U.S. the foil faces the living space to stop the interior moisture from ruining the insulation of the fibre glass; trapped air is good, trapped moisture is bad. Here I learn that on the ceiling the foil is directed upwards to reflect the heat away from the interior space.
Anyways, I am almost there in deciding how to insulate my house.
If I do not hear a strong recommendation for reflecting paint for the cheap masonry wall downstairs, I will just use a light colour latex paint.
For the wood wall upstairs, between the studs I will use foam boards, if I can find them, and if they are cost effective; otherwise it will be fibre glass, preferably encased. By the way, in the U.S, there will be exterior grade plywood or flake board on the outside of the studs and then that would be covered by siding, vinyl, wood, or brick. Here the wood siding is directly on the studs, to save money, I suppose.
I will try to describe the upstairs roof/ceiling with as little country-specific building jargon as possible. Long pieces of wood (rafters) goes up at about 40 degrees to the horizontal from each of the long side walls of the house to meet at the centre line to support the pitched roof, putting the weight of the roof on the side walls. Then strips/slats of wood horizontal to the ground are nailed to the rafters. The steel roofing sheets are fastened to these slats. I got some photos, but do not know how to put them inside the post. Although the shape of the roof of my house is very different from the structure shown in Parrot’s post above, you can get some idea of the rafters, slats and the roof. There will be no flat ceiling below the roof to create an attic space. Unlike what you see in the photo, the bottom of the rafters will be covered by smart board or drywall/sheetrock/gypsam board, or by decorative strips of wood. This will create a finished pitched/cathedral ceiling for the upstairs living space.
This is an experiment for me. In colder climates, a cathedral ceiling will be inefficient for heating the living area as the hot air will be able to rise higher away from the floor. I am hypothesizing that here in Thailand as we would want to take the hot air away from the floor, the cathedral ceiling will be a good thing, especially in conjunction with a vent at one of the gable ends and an exhaust fan at the other end to extract the hot air away.
The material used to fill the space between the rafters to minimize the heat gain through the roof will be separated from the steel roof by the few centimetres of thickness of the wood slats between the rafters and the roofing sheet. Just like the material between the wall studs, foam boards would be my preference; encased fibre glass will be the second choice.
The remaining issue I have is whether or not to place strips of some reflecting material over the foam board to reflect away some of the heat gain through the steel roof.
Parrot, that insulation on the roofing sheet could be an option for me; but it looks like that it was sprayed (?) on to the sheets before they were installed. In my house, the roofing sheets are already installed. But, I may take a look at that roof.
Meanwhile,….
Compared to places in the colder regions, it seems to be an upside down world here. In the U.S. the foil faces the living space to stop the interior moisture from ruining the insulation of the fibre glass; trapped air is good, trapped moisture is bad. Here I learn that on the ceiling the foil is directed upwards to reflect the heat away from the interior space.
Anyways, I am almost there in deciding how to insulate my house.
If I do not hear a strong recommendation for reflecting paint for the cheap masonry wall downstairs, I will just use a light colour latex paint.
For the wood wall upstairs, between the studs I will use foam boards, if I can find them, and if they are cost effective; otherwise it will be fibre glass, preferably encased. By the way, in the U.S, there will be exterior grade plywood or flake board on the outside of the studs and then that would be covered by siding, vinyl, wood, or brick. Here the wood siding is directly on the studs, to save money, I suppose.
I will try to describe the upstairs roof/ceiling with as little country-specific building jargon as possible. Long pieces of wood (rafters) goes up at about 40 degrees to the horizontal from each of the long side walls of the house to meet at the centre line to support the pitched roof, putting the weight of the roof on the side walls. Then strips/slats of wood horizontal to the ground are nailed to the rafters. The steel roofing sheets are fastened to these slats. I got some photos, but do not know how to put them inside the post. Although the shape of the roof of my house is very different from the structure shown in Parrot’s post above, you can get some idea of the rafters, slats and the roof. There will be no flat ceiling below the roof to create an attic space. Unlike what you see in the photo, the bottom of the rafters will be covered by smart board or drywall/sheetrock/gypsam board, or by decorative strips of wood. This will create a finished pitched/cathedral ceiling for the upstairs living space.
This is an experiment for me. In colder climates, a cathedral ceiling will be inefficient for heating the living area as the hot air will be able to rise higher away from the floor. I am hypothesizing that here in Thailand as we would want to take the hot air away from the floor, the cathedral ceiling will be a good thing, especially in conjunction with a vent at one of the gable ends and an exhaust fan at the other end to extract the hot air away.
The material used to fill the space between the rafters to minimize the heat gain through the roof will be separated from the steel roof by the few centimetres of thickness of the wood slats between the rafters and the roofing sheet. Just like the material between the wall studs, foam boards would be my preference; encased fibre glass will be the second choice.
The remaining issue I have is whether or not to place strips of some reflecting material over the foam board to reflect away some of the heat gain through the steel roof.
Re: Insulation
RC, the Reflective paint you talk about is made by Fuji Paints, here in Oz if that;s any help. Don't know if they sell the same brand in Thailand ??
Re: Insulation
R.C., Home Pro it was! God I hate getting old. 
Re: Insulation
"insulation on the roofing sheet could be an option for me; but it looks like that it was sprayed (?) on"
There's a light coating of ?rubber cement? sprayed on the underside of the panels and the insulation is glued on before installing on the roof. Ours has been on for 2.5 years with no problem.
Styrofoam sheets that are sold downtown are highly toxic if burned. They're probably effective in keeping things insulated, but I worried about having a fire at night.
There's a light coating of ?rubber cement? sprayed on the underside of the panels and the insulation is glued on before installing on the roof. Ours has been on for 2.5 years with no problem.
Styrofoam sheets that are sold downtown are highly toxic if burned. They're probably effective in keeping things insulated, but I worried about having a fire at night.
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Ray.Charles
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Re: Insulation
Where in downtown should I look for the styrofoam boards?
Re: Insulation
T\I think its called Star roofing not sure but if you go to the intersection of Honda and ring road, Khon Khan road and turn left towards Big C direction on the ring road just before the rail way tracks is a Bluescope roof roller factory, not 50 mts but about 80 mts before the rail tracks, there are 2 close by each other, has a good display out the front, they can roll your roof and install the foam backed foil insulation at the factory straight onto the sheeting, there are some displays inside the factory, delivered to site with the insulation installed
ChoW
ChoW
Re: Insulation
The underside of the roof in the new Tesco looks similar to the photo above....don't know if they have a steel roof on top.
Re: Insulation
The website at
http://www.sunsulate.co.th/index.php?op ... &Itemid=92
has all the info on the insulation mentioned in the photo above, as well as many other products, apparently all available in Thailand.
http://www.sunsulate.co.th/index.php?op ... &Itemid=92
has all the info on the insulation mentioned in the photo above, as well as many other products, apparently all available in Thailand.
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Ray.Charles
- udonmap.com
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- Joined: July 14, 2008, 7:13 am
Re: Insulation
Upstairs space of my new house is 5m X 8m, basically a single room with small spaces set aside for the stairs, bathroom, and closets. Walls are wood studs/posts with wood siding. Roof is steel; there would be no ceiling under the roof, or in other words the room will have a cathedral ceiling.
I am still undecided, and quite confused about how to insulate this space.
I will not use fiber-glass, unless it is fully encased, looking like a comforter. I have found this type with R-value of 7 or 9 and 60cm in width. If I stuff that into the 43cm space between the studs, they will lose a portion of its R-value.
So, I went searching for thick foam insulating board, very common in the States that can be cut to fit. I have not found foam insulating board anywhere. Some foam boards I found in a children’s store; no idea about its R-value.
What I found was thin (5mm and 10mm) foam boards covered either on one or on both sides by aluminum foil. They claim to be of R-value between 16 and 21. These I can perhaps use, but first I would like to understand the physics behind the claimed R-value, and trust the claims. The boards are too thin, and aluminum is not an insulator. Aluminum’s contribution to the R-values has to be in reflecting some of the heat away. But does it work when placed behind wood siding? Aluminum reflects, but how well it reflects the ‘heat waves’ at infra-red frequencies?
The same material I can use under the steel roof; but not in the same way when the roof is not yet installed. Look up at the ceiling the Carrefour and the new TESCO also, I think.
I am still undecided, and quite confused about how to insulate this space.
I will not use fiber-glass, unless it is fully encased, looking like a comforter. I have found this type with R-value of 7 or 9 and 60cm in width. If I stuff that into the 43cm space between the studs, they will lose a portion of its R-value.
So, I went searching for thick foam insulating board, very common in the States that can be cut to fit. I have not found foam insulating board anywhere. Some foam boards I found in a children’s store; no idea about its R-value.
What I found was thin (5mm and 10mm) foam boards covered either on one or on both sides by aluminum foil. They claim to be of R-value between 16 and 21. These I can perhaps use, but first I would like to understand the physics behind the claimed R-value, and trust the claims. The boards are too thin, and aluminum is not an insulator. Aluminum’s contribution to the R-values has to be in reflecting some of the heat away. But does it work when placed behind wood siding? Aluminum reflects, but how well it reflects the ‘heat waves’ at infra-red frequencies?
The same material I can use under the steel roof; but not in the same way when the roof is not yet installed. Look up at the ceiling the Carrefour and the new TESCO also, I think.
Re: Insulation
Here are a couple of sites that helped me get a handle on the aluminum foil/radiant barrier thing when I was trying to decide what to do when I built my house. The first one is a short PDF that gives a good overview of how it works and some things to think about when installing it. The second is a much more detailed discussion and gives the results of some tests they ran in Florida on existing homes.
They talk about one of the things you were worried about with putting it behind the paneling -
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications ... /index.htm
They talk about one of the things you were worried about with putting it behind the paneling -
http://www.southface.org/web/resources& ... rriers.pdfOne critical point in installing a radiant barrier for any location is that the shiny surface must face an air space for the product to work at all. This air space should be at least an inch deep. Placing the reflective surface directly against a material with no air space eliminates any energy savings.
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications ... /index.htm
Re: Insulation
We replaced our cement panel roof a few years ago with rolled steel. The roof has a 1/4" or so of foam with foil backing attached to the roof. The foam is the part attached to the roof (glued). The technique seems to be very popular in our village. I don't know the r value but sure seems much better than the older roof.
If you haven't selected a color for your roof, recommend a light or white color. If you need convincing, go out to one of the parking lots in town on a sunny day. Find a white car and a dark car parked next to each other. Put your hand on both. No contest!
When we lived in Texas, the Air Force was rehabing old wooden buildings by attaching 2" blue foam sheets to the outter wood. Then they added stucco and paint. The buildings looked new and I'd guess they were much cooler afterwards.
If you find the better quality foam in Thailand, please let us know!
If you haven't selected a color for your roof, recommend a light or white color. If you need convincing, go out to one of the parking lots in town on a sunny day. Find a white car and a dark car parked next to each other. Put your hand on both. No contest!
When we lived in Texas, the Air Force was rehabing old wooden buildings by attaching 2" blue foam sheets to the outter wood. Then they added stucco and paint. The buildings looked new and I'd guess they were much cooler afterwards.
If you find the better quality foam in Thailand, please let us know!