Reading & Writing Thai

[KHONDAHM]

Unless I can think of yet another reason to procrastinate again, I will finally go ahead and get serious about becoming proficient reading and writing in Thai (can do now, but s-l-o-w-l-y)...soon.

My motivation is my daughter and having to tell her to go ask her Mom for help all the time when I know she prefers to learn with me. I also do not want to be an illiterate for the rest of my life in Thailand. Works fine for some, but not what I want for myself. Frankly, I am tired and frustrated to always have to ask someone else to read critically important documents and forms to me. I have an advanced education, but feel really stoooopid when I have to always ask for such basic help.

I would have learned long ago except for the frustration with teachers insisting that I learn the Thai way (i.e. "Bor Bird", "Cor Cake", "Dor Dog", etc.). It drives me up the wall when all I want to know is the phonetic sound of each individual letter or letter combination - without the superfluousness always added. Those who have learned will know exactly what I am talking about - it may go over the heads of those who have not - so this post is directed at any of you who have learned and are proficient reading/writing Thai.

If I am reading (sorry no Thai keyboard right now) the word "ratabahn", and I point to a letter (for example the one making the "b" sound) and ask "What is the sound of that letter?", I'll get a response like "Oh, That is bor bing." Poof!, instant frustration. Tell me "b" (phonetically "buh") and I "get it" instantly and can continue reading the rest of the word. Tell me "bor bing" and my brain just rejects it as superfluous nonsense. I KNOW my frustration is because I am used to being taught the American way (i.e. We say the letter is "B", "C", or "D" OR we say the sound is "b" like "boy, "c" like "cake", or "d" like "dog". We don't say the letter is "Bor Bird", "Cor Cake", "Dor Dog" the way they teach in Thai).

I'm rambling.

Anyway, for those who have become proficient in reading and writing Thai, did you have the same frustration? If so, how did you overcome it (other than to just capitulate to learning letter sounds the Thai way)? What techniques/tricks did you use to help you associate sounds with the letters (other than the bor bing Thai method)?

[parrot]

My personal experience (FWIW): I was going to say, "stop trying to learn the stupid alphabet", but I'll try to tone it down.
Don't waste time learning the alphabet (at first, or maybe ever). Knowing your abc's doesn't help you read English and knowing your ก ข ค won't help you read Thai.
I finally broke the code with the Maani reader, available free on line at
http://www.seasite.niu.edu:85/thai/maan ... eaders.htm
Download lesson 1. There are only 7 characters in that lesson. Listen to the audio, then read it yourself a few times. Then break out the champagne, my friend, because now you've just read Thai! Go to lesson 2......it introduces a few more characters and continues on with the story. You can finish all 22 lessons and not be concerned with tones or alphabets or any silly rules. But you'll build up your confidence in breaking the genetic code of how some of the letters sound (without all the silly fuss about where that letter fits in the alphabet).
Once you get through 22 lessons, you can start to learn some of the simple tone rules. Go from there. If you can get through the first 22 lessons of Maani (not so difficult), you'll likely want to continue.
Maani was the basic reader for most Thais our age. You can ask most middle aged Thais about the lessons and they'll probably be happy to assist.
There's a wealth of info available on line, including audio files to help you along.
Also, rather than torture yourself with trying to spell Thai phonetically on your computer, download the free typing program at http://download.siamhrm.com/comment.php?dlid=2010 If you can type English with all ten fingers, you'll not have any problem learning how to type Thai. And it beats the pants off of trying to spell phonetically or trying to hunt and peck for Thai letters.
I have no illusions of becoming fluent.......but being able to read street signs, menus, store fronts, maybe even the political cartoons in Thai Rath newspaper....will make living in Thailand much more enjoyable.
Good luck!

[Texpat]

I'm rambling.

Indeed.

[Brian Davis]

No chimney, no Santa, no presents.
So I might as well get stuck into this now.
Do you think I'll be fluent by the end of the day?

Seriously, it would be nice to be able to read the basics.

[Khun Paul]

Thanks parrot for an illuminating post, i will certainly look at that.

[Paul]

When I took the plunge - I thought I will never do it

I related it to ABC's - in that the letter A sounds like a, the letter B sounds like b ....and so on

Once you recognise the Thai symbol and relate a sound to it - you are on your way and build up the words just as you do with D-O-G , or S-I-T

When you can read your first car number plate or road sign its the best feeling

Forget trying to spell and don't worry about the tones or tone marks - they come later

Reading will improve your language skills also as you can see the way the word is written and hence how it is spoken.

Don't bother with the karaoke style - in at the deep end is best

Get some kids books and learn from them - they're only a few baht at bookshops

I was one of those who though I will never be able to do this - I can read simple words only but I am happy and boy, does it impress the ladies

[parrot]

Every car motorcycle in front of you offers an opportunity to practice you letter recognition!

[Paul]

Every car motorcycle in front of you offers an opportunity to practice you letter recognition!

Yes, and you can learn what province the car is from (or was registered at)

Try reading the street name signs when sat at traffic lights too. If you have a rough idea of what it SHOULD say - you can slowly work out what it says in Thai and it makes the 'jigsaw' complete.

[Texpat]

Read cereal boxes, toothpaste tubes, shampoo bottles, sauce and spice containers, big print on TV commercials, signs in supermarkets ...

How many idle minutes in a day (in traffic, in the shower, in the kitchen) where you could be practicing cerebral gymnastics rather than idle cluelessness? It takes about two weeks at two hours a day before you "get it." Once you can read a little, the mystery is gone. You're not genius yet, but it starts coming into focus.

(the shampoo bottles I read are my wife's)

I can't imagine being illiterate.

Thai fonts can be a real challenge.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I got three months of intensive training in spoken, written and reading Thai at the University of Wisconsin prior to joining their 'College Year in Thailand Programme' at Chiang Mai University for two years. We used the Thai method, thus, ror rua, daw dek, and so on. It worked fine. Six hours of lectures a day and four hours study on our own in the language labs.

I can write Thai much better than I can read it. Oh, I can read the words fine except I do not always know what they mean, in particular, government documents, edicts, legislation and so on. I really have problems with the 'new' form of written Thai that is used for movies, on billboards, cds, vcds and the like. In this form of written Thai the 'r' and 'k' sound is written as a three-sided box, and it is not readily apparent which is the correct sound.

You will note that there are many different sounds for words, and that Udon ends in the 'r' letter thus you get people saying Udorn instead of Udon or Udonthani (Udornthani, Udonthanee). When you see the 'r' or 'l' letter at the end of a word that will usually come out as an 'n' sound.

Well, what about the pronunciation for Udon and Ubon? It should be easy. I went to Ubon this past summer and my very good friend told me that I was pronouncing Ubon incorrectly when I had it rhyme with Udon. Ubon is pronounced something like Uboon (Ubuun). Ask a Thai to pronounce it for you. Ubon, by the way, is sometimes spelt Ubol so maybe this is the reason for the different pronunciation.

I am not 100% fluent in Thai. Maybe I am at 50% or a bit better. Nevertheless, I have spent the past two summers speaking only Thai and gotten around Isaan, Bangkok and the north without any problems.

At the University of Wisconsin there was never enough time to think about whether or not Thai was difficult to learn since we had to move on to the next lesson.

If you are having problems with tones, in general but not always, the first part of the word is rising while the last part is a falling tone.

The University of Wisconsin used the Mary Haas dictionary.

[Little Italian Udon]

If ratabahan (รัฐบาล) means government ,is very easy to read i think, there are words much more difficult than this one.This has R short A T another A (when the second vowel is not shown and the fist in an A, the second will be an A too) and then we have a B a long A and a L (which as last letter is pronounced N

[bumper]

Went back to winndows explorere just to say Thank You for the sites. I was surprised how much I coyuld read I would say about 60%. This is very simliar to how mmy tutor was teaching me. I finished the first grade for Thai children. Considering I had not read for five months, not bad retention.

I believe however learning the Alphabet and vowels is important. The sounbds alone certianly make it easier. But sounds alone can be decieving since many on the Constanents sound the same buit mean something else.

In the end whatever keeps you studying and gives you a bit motivation is worth it and this certainly does that.

I'll just keep plugging along each time I start studying I remember a little more. It adds up with time and really adds to the enjoyment of living here. Still can't do a serious conversation but I can have fun talking with the Thai's.

[Tigerick]

Thanks this has been most informative and I have already started the program Maanii

Even my wife is surprised to find it on the Internet just as she remembers it.

[parrot]

Tigerick
If you want to reinforce your Maani lessons, grab a notebook and write the lesson out.....or type them out. As the early lessons are short and not too many letters are involved, it's not too difficult.
There's another version of the lessons at http://www.learningthai.com/books/manee/characters.htm if anyone's interested.
And.....there are follow-on Maani stories that go up to the 5th grade......someplace on the web....just have forgotten where. I've got the 116 page pdf file (attached is one page), if anyone would like acopy, let me know.

[LoongLee]

To all,,, I've used learningthai.com for a long time and it's been very helpful for a number of things,,, ie,,, a virtual Thai keyboard to create documents or e-mails (just copy and paste) for those who don't have an actual Thai keyboard. As referred to above,, there is the Manee section also for those who prefer it.

[KHONDAHM]

if anyone would like acopy, let me know.

Please upload a copy. "Upload attachment" tab below the reply compose window. Thanks!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Yes, Italian restaurant, the word for government is easy to read, write and pronounce; however, the words in government and legal documents are not so easy to understand. It is the same in Canada. To fully understand a legal document, you need a lawyer, in most cases, to interpret the 'legalese' for you. I have the same problem in Thailand: 'yes, this says that, but what does it mean?"

[maaka]

buy a law dictionary if you get the chance, will help..

[parrot]

"Please upload a copy."

Well, I just looked at the file size and I don't think Lee would like that kind of attachment. It's no matter, as I've uncovered the website address:

There's a wealth of language info, including the full Maani series, available at http://www.karn.tv/thai.html

[Mr Natural]

Tell me "bor bing" and my brain just rejects it as superfluous nonsense.

What you are referring to as superfluous is the name of the Thai character. From your post it seem you think they are a learning aid.
You do need to learn them at some point if you want to be able to communicate Thai characters effectively (B-ee is not B to a Thai, it's Bor Bai Mai) and you do need to learn their alphabetical order if you ever want to use a dictionary!

What techniques/tricks did you use to help you associate sounds with the letters (other than the bor bing Thai method)?

Kiddy Thai flash cards with cute little pictures worked for me!