Reading & Writing Thai

[parrot]

"you do need to learn their alphabetical order if you ever want to use a dictionary"

If you're using a paper-based dictionary, that's true! But trying to learn 44 thai abc's before I could read ไก่ was pointless and didn't serve a purpose. For example, you'll learn that ล is lor ling, so it adds an L sound to words. EXCEPT, it doesn't add an L sound to words that end in that letter! Instead, it's an N sound.
I'm not discouraging learning the Thai alphabet.....but other than for using a Thai dictionary, it doesn't serve any purpose for me.

[patriot]

"you do need to learn their alphabetical order if you ever want to use a dictionary"

If you're using a paper-based dictionary, that's true! But trying to learn 44 thai abc's before I could read ไก่ was pointless and didn't serve a purpose. For example, you'll learn that ล is lor ling, so it adds an L sound to words. EXCEPT, it doesn't add an L sound to words that end in that letter! Instead, it's an N sound.
I'm not discouraging learning the Thai alphabet.....but other than for using a Thai dictionary, it doesn't serve any purpose for me.

I have to concur with Parrot, it is pretty pointless to learn the alphabet at our age parrot-fashion (excuse me ) Have the alphabet to hand if you're using a dictionary, you'll soon pick up the order.
I think it is far more important to learn the three groups into which the consonants fall.
Try making your own "flip-cards" with the symbol on one side and the phonetic sound and an indication of the High, Middle or Low group on the other. You can use them forever.

Above all, DON'T give up. When you grasp the tones from the combination of the consonant group, the length of the vowel and the ending it'll be like crashing through the barrier of being able to ride a bike or ski.

[parrot]

"learn the three groups into which the consonants fall"


Hint: start with the high consonants: there are only 11. 2 k sounds, 1 c, 2 t's, 1 p, 1 f, 3 s's, and the ***** hip h sound.

Or, start with the 9 middle consonants: 1 g, 1 j, 2 d's, 2 dt's, a b, a bp, and the awe-ang.

Everything else is low consonant!!!

Break it down into bite size chunks makes it a whole lot easier to swallow!
Good luck!

[Mr Natural]

Thanks for the tips parrot and patriot! I can see that going straight in to the Mannii reader is a good motivator because you will be reading Thai right away! I've taken a systematic approch because it made more sense to me, but it's taken a long time to get to the point where I can (somewhat) read!

I've learned all 44 consonants, inital and ending sounds, 32 vowels, monophthongs, diphthongs, short and long and extra vowels. So, I can sound out words but I'm not really reading if I'm not getting the tones!

Learning how to determin the tones is the next wall I need to get over.
So I still need to learn the consonant classes and the rules of how the combination of the initial consonant, tone mark, vowel and final consonant determin the tone!

Sounds difficult! Am I making this to complicated for myself?

[parrot]

Mr N.
There are some nice tools for helping with tones at

http://www.seasite.niu.edu:85/thai/self ... nes_FS.htm

Same same for tones....take it one step at a time........I suggest start only with the high consonants as they have a built in tone. Learn the tones associated with high consonants.
Benjawan Becker's Thai for Beginners gives a pretty simple explanation. Get a good handle on high consonant tone rules, then move on to another class of consonants.

If you know the consonants/vowels, endings, etc, you'll probably not have much of a problem with tones unless you overdose on all the rules at one time. Take it slow.....at some point (probably mid way through the consonant classes) you'll have one of those moments where it seems like it's all coming together. Don't stop now!!

[maaka]

oyiiiiiiiiiiiiii...its all going over my head already, and I speak two lingos, one with simliar tones and vowels. never mind, i really need to set time aside and do it properly like a school kid.this xmas palva is distracting...anyway dont let me put you fellas off, indeed, all the comments here are excellant, and helpful..

[Wisdom]

I think to learn to read Thai, would take me forever, and i'm too old now i feel. I use romanised Thai, i admit a pretty poor substitute to the Thai script but at least i can speak some Thai now. Blimey i used to struggle in school learning French, looking back, compared to leaning Thai, learning French should have been a walk in the park!!!

[KHONDAHM]

Thanks guys for all the helpful feedback on this topic. I will be following some of the good advice. I can read really basic Thai very slowly and with a lot of effort, but not a newspaper or government forms. Some of the tips should come in handy as I strive to get my headd around it. That breakthrough moment should happen soon. I hope.

[can123]

Please forgive me for "bumping" this thread but I was unable to find a recent thread in which a member asked for details of the Manee books. I am learning Thai and this address gives direct access to the Manee books and in much better definition that I have seen before.

http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/dow ... nee-books/

The parent site gives lots of information relating to the available web sources for those who wish to learn the language. I have finally learned the Thai alphabet and the tone rules and am beginning to read Thai, and not before time. It's hard for an old man to learn and it has taken me ages to get where I am now.

[d p meijer]

you want to learn Thai ? start at the bottom like a thai child .that is how i do it .
learn the alphabet . and then go up . like in school.
i have a perfect private teacher.

i use Benjawan Becker and use every day Maani books . now up to book 4 .
and after 1 year of hard study can read and write and understand the thai writing and exceptions.
74 years old now.

have 12 Maani books . so 8 to go . but still . i am on the way and it is the right way .
it takes time and you must have a strong will to succeed .
but it can be done . interesting and rewarding.

[parrot]

No question about it, I learned to read Thai thanks to Maani and gang. Back when I was just beginning with those books, I liked to boast, "I can read Thai"....albeit lesson one of มานี มานี มี ตา กา กา มี ตา.....but still, I was reading and I didn't have to learn the alphabet first (although I can use a Thai dictionary, I found there was no need to recite the Thai alphabet....the way we do the English one).
The greatest joy I get out of reading Thai is being able to understand all the signage along the highways or in the stores or menus. For me, it was and still is very liberating.
I was fortunate to have a good teacher (she wasn't a formal teacher but her mother was and taught her children all the rules). When it came time to learn tones (only after 20 or so Maani lessons), she was able to help me crack the tone-code.........I tried Becker's books alone, but couldn't decipher the tones on my own.
All that said, while I'm able to do most anything I want on my own (banks, gov offices, restaurants, etc), I get lost if I'm not in control of the conversation. That's okay.......I can chalk that up to my hearing aids if I need an excuse.

[d p meijer]

it is a joy reading / learning with the Maani stories . they keep me interested and am Always looking to be able to start with the next one in the book .
tone code is no problem any more for me . thanks to the Becker book and the guidance of my fabulous teacher .
in the beginning i thought i would never learn to speak thai using the right tones . but i understand the code, the logic and system and now i can use it in the right way.

like said , it is such fun to be able to read signs , messages and write in thai .

i think mastering the thai alphabet , knowing the thai names , was and is for me important when learning thai.

[parrot]

Sometimes my teacher would go easy on me.....but then I'd find myself not understood when speaking with others downtown. Example: part of my phone number is 213. I'd be at a bank or store and the clerk would ask for my phone number.......they'd often write down something other than the 1 in the number.
I confronted my teacher......she reminded me of the clinched teeth/nasal way of saying words with ึ. Problem solved.

The best advice I could give to someone wanting to learn Thai....reading/writing....would be to stay away from any transliterated books. Unlike Chinese, there's really no surefire way to transliterate Thai....even the government can't seem to agree on it.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

You should find learning Lao easy. I picked it up quickly first by learning to read destinations on bus signs, and then through conversations with local people. I can get by in banks, hotels, restaurants etc. with a basic understanding of how to read, write and speak Lao. It is useful in Isaan too.

As a sidenote, Isaan did not exist until the 1950s when the government stopped calling the people in this region Lao and invented 'Isaan'. This was to educate the 'Lao' people that they lived in Thailand, and their loyalty should be in that direction and not to Viang Chan.

[parrot]

Yesterday while returning from the Nongwahsaw market, I noticed a sign alongside the highway.....ตัดผมชาย - หญิง. Just what I was looking for and only a km from my home.
I stopped by today to test it out.........perfect. 100 Baht for a scissor cut.
It's the sort of thing I'd never have known about if I couldn't read a bit of Thai.

[parrot]

When you see the word ห้าม you usually think about things that your mother might have told you........don't put your elbows on the table, don't talk with your mouth full, don't get that girl pregnant!, etc.

It's not much different in Thailand.....although there's a very short phrase that you'll see from time to time.......ห้ามพลาด that is more of an invitation than a prohibition.

Anyone? Anyone want to take a stab at the tone(s) of those two words (without looking it up)?

[can123]

I don't think there is any guessing involved. Without the tone mark the first syllable would be a rising tone. With the tone mark, it becomes a falling tone.

The second has a low class consonant, no tone mark and a long vowel and is a falling tone.

[parrot]

Falling tone, falling tone. Right. พลาด has a falling tone, not really because of the long vowel, but because of the long vowel together with a dead consonant at the end . At one time (while learning consonant classes, tones, etc), I knew all the rules by heart. Over the years, though, I can no longer recite the rules, but still know how they work. It's sort of like knowing that you spell the past tense of stop stopped and not stoped without knowing why it's that way. At least for me.

What I can remember is that when I was learning all the tones/consonants/vowels/rules, I wished my brain was running on 8 cylinders rather than 4.

[can123]

The vowel length is important because if the vowel was short the tone would have been a rising one.

[parrot]

The vowel length is important because if the vowel was short the tone would have been a rising one.

yep!