Sahn Pah-poom

[mortiboy]

It's a small Buddhist shrine seen in many gardens.
Just interested on views.My Wife not interested but some are.People back of my house always giving offerings.
New year I was amazed it was so full of goodies.Even bottle of LOA KHOW ! and a big whole chicken!Loads flowers .
Looked a picture.
What I dont understand is the stray cat lurkes here often and gets in kitchen nicking food if forget door open.
YET it never attempted to have a go at the Chicken(Cooked)
But I never see any evidence of food or drink consumed...........Hello? you there?

[Fawn]

So it's not a spirit house then, something else? Maybe Uncle Tilo could enlighten us, or Stan.

[nkstan]

Some people have all kinds of religious beliefs,sometimes varies from area to area.

I don't have any organized beliefs,but I am persuaded to believe in Creationism and a God of the Universe!I don't think man will ever find the answers through science,although many spend much of their effort trying to do so!

Everyone has always tried to tell me I am a Christian as I am open to the possibility.But I hate the Churches and organized religion preaching absolute Dogma.

I tend to believe that there is a spiritual side of life that has power in my life and all other life,might even be all one thing,I don't know and don't believe anyone else has THE answer either!

Animism,praying to past relatives lives,trees,statues etc.etc,are some peoples beliefs that connect them spiritually!If it works for them,I think it is great!!Anything that focuses on the spirit,IMO,gets one outside his EGO,diminishes selfishness and makes everything better in the World than it would be with man as the intelligent force propelling life and continiously screwing up the World!

I think offerings given in gratitude without expectation are great!Don't like the ''merit'' for forgiveness unless there is contrition and and a repentive desire mindset!

Above all,the hypocrisy of doing any religious action for ''show'',really trurns me off!

[Aardvark]

At least these Spirit Houses etc don't impact on other peoples lives or views like mainstream Religions do. I think they can look quite attractive some times and there must be at least some Hungry Wild life that profits from it

[Laan Yaa Mo]

My first guess is that it is a baan phii (spirit house), but it would be great to see a photo to be sure. I have never heard this term, 'Sahn Pah-poom', before.

[mortiboy]

I agree with that Stan I was bought up a Christian,although family never want to church.
Until recent years I was apprehensive to admit I was a "unbeliever" in case I would be blacklisted when I POP ME CORK!
Now, I like Stan, truly believe in THE GOD! It is there!
Look around you? It is so obvious the whole environment is worked out!
So many religions ! Which one is the true one?........None! and yes Stan, we will never know.
Creation is long gone. It is evolution! I believe that, but that process was in itself processed all those millions years away.
To me, the Buddhists Shrine is a waste of time.But who am I to say.
It does good for people and maybe keeps them from being a bad person so be it.
As for praying to God, I look on it as having a few wishes. So when I really want something I wont "ask" because I dont think I am worthy of everyday problems to be cleared.
The odd times I HAVE asked God help me out ,(when in deep ----)....Always done!
So hopefully have a few wishes left for a rainy day!

[mortiboy]

My first guess is that it is a baan phii (spirit house), but it would be great to see a photo to be sure. I have never heard this term, 'Sahn Pah-poom', before.

Thai Spirit House (”san pra poom”)
Nah..." Phee" is a ghost!
They pray to Pra !( The Monk) hence San" Pra" Poom
Only Ghost house I know is at the fairground
Sorry it seems to be on it side ....To lazy change it! It's the one at back of my house (All the gifts are gone now)


When Buddhism first arrived in Thailand (Siam) over 2500 years ago, spirit worship, or animism, was already widely practiced throughout Asia. Today, many of these animistic beliefs are intertwined with Buddhism and it is here that the Spirit House makes its entrance. A spirit house (‘san pra poom’) is a small shrine usually found outside residential or business buildings in Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. In Thai’s beliefs the spirit house chosen to protect a dwelling will depend on which type of spirit is expected to live there.

Characteristics of spirit houses depend on the style of the spirit house crafter.

[parrot]

The term sanphrapoom (ศาล พระ ภูมิ) equates to:
san (ศาล) - shrine, joss house, abode of the spirit of a dead person

phrapoom (พระภูมิ) - guardian spirit of a house/community

A neighbor of ours, when we lived in town, had a very elaborate spirit house (easily twice the size of the photo above), laid out on a poured cement base, all decorated up in xmas lights (there was no Christ in her lights, I'm sure). Each evening, she'd go out to the shrine, prostrate herself with a variety of offerings, and pray for 10 minutes or so.

Along the highway near our home, people throw away their spirit homes.....hundreds of them, all in the same area. From time to time, I see people stop by the side of the road and make offerings. Many people blow their horns when they pass. Now the city is going to widen the road....I'll be interested to know/see what sort of ceremony (if any) they hold to clean up the site.

[SanukJoe]

My first guess is that it is a baan phii (spirit house), but it would be great to see a photo to be sure. I have never heard this term, 'Sahn Pah-poom', before.

Thai Spirit House (”san pra poom”)
Nah..." Phee" is a ghost!
They pray to Pra !( The Monk) hence San" Pra" Poom
Only Ghost house I know is at the fairground

San phrapoom and baan phii are the same, they are spirit houses.

They not pray to a monk, but to a guardian spirit/ghost as Parrot stated.

Spirit and Ghost have the same meaning, they are the disembodied part of a deceased person.

Mortiboy: that cat knows more about spiritual life than humans will ever do

Joe

[jorg]

Along the highway near our home, people throw away their spirit homes.....hundreds of them, all in the same area. From time to time, I see people stop by the side of the road and make offerings. Many people blow their horns when they pass. Now the city is going to widen the road....I'll be interested to know/see what sort of ceremony (if any) they hold to clean up the site.

I've seen that a lot, and I always wonder why they all throw them in to the same area. Did somebody just start there and other people follow, or is it a designated area (and if so, who did that?). Also, when do you get rid of it? What's the reason to throw it away?

Maybe one of you who knows more about Buddhism can explain this to me?

[FrazeeDK]

On the way to the Lao Friendship bridge on the Nong Khai by-pass road there is a large San Pra Phoom disposal area.. I've noted in my travels up there since 2002 that that the amount of discared spirit houses has grown tremendously. When I've asked the TW, "why are they doing this??" She has no idea....

[UdonExpat]

The spirit house is not a Buddhist belief. It predates Buddhism. The animism that Thais believe in has absorbed Brahmanism, Buddhism, and is in the process of absorbing Christianity. Fortune telling is also not a Buddhist belief and is considered a low art. Thai Buddhism seems to be a form of animism loosely based on Buddhism with a smidgen of Brahmanism. Mostly, it's a very profitable manly business. Although I have been to some temples that have a wonderful feeling to them.

The Buddha considered such practices as fortune telling, wearing magic charms for protection, fixing lucky sites for building, prophesizing and fixing lucky days to be useless superstitions and he expressly forbids his disciples to practice such things.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda09.htm

The wife thinks there are two things going on with the discarding of the spirit houses.

Some people discard them under a big tree, the kind of big tree that people sometimes pray to or throw talcum powder on the bark trying to discern lottery numbers. The type of tree you sometimes see with ribbons and material wrapped around them. Old spirit trees.

The other thing is someone just tosses it anywhere and then other people see it there and figure there is some good reason that one was tossed there and decide to follow suite. The lemming process.

[prae_mont]

Well, it's quite interesting to see you guy discuss this topic.

What we call "San Phra Phoom" is not really Buddhism. It's the mixture of Buddism, Hinduism and Brahmanism. San Phra Phoom, which we ofthen see, is a small house based on one column. It represents the place where Shiva lives. Thai people often have this San Pha Phoom in thier house, because they believe this will bring good fortune. And the god (Shiva) will protect the house and eliminate the bad spirits.

Another "San" shrine that we have is "San Chao Tee" or "Baan Phee". The difference from San pha phoom is, it has 4 colomns. San Chao tee is often built for the ghosts or the spirits who used to live in the area where the house is. It's like a compensation for that ghost who was chased away after the house was build. And people will know that if the spirit or the ghost needs a new house or not after moving into the house. Some people say they feel it, they feel that the ghost are angry. Some people can't sleep at night or always have a nightmare.

And what Mr. Parrot said "Along the highway near our home, people throw away their spirit homes"... I don't think people do that. These are also the ghost houses, for the people who were dead from the car accident in that area. We Thai believe that some spirits can't find thier way to go to heaven or hell and just stay there where the accident happend. So we build a house for them.

We may see that some thais blow their horn when they drive pass this area. This is to pay respect for the ghost and god (if there's also a San Phra Phoom), so that people will be protected by god and ghost for the whole journey.

If you wish to have a san phra phoom in your house, you have to consult the monk or the Brahma. Because you have to find the right location for it, and the time when you build that shrine is very important. The monk or the Brahma can organise a ceremony for you.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Thanks for that explanation prae_mont, it is very helpful.

There are many baan phii just outside Lampang on the way north to Chiang Mai (mentioned previously in True Brit's thread about travel to Chiang Mai). There is a curve on the highway where there have been many accidents. Buses and trucks and some car drivers honk their horns on their way past this site. I can remember the vast amount of San Chao Tee back in the mid-1970s, and there are many more now.

Buddhism in Thailand is a syncretic religion that contains many elements (animism, Brahmanism and even the Kwan Yum [Goddess of Mercy cult from China]. But, this is true in other Asian countries where Chinese religion consists of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism; Indonesian Islam on Java, which is composed of Islam, adat (traditional beliefs), Buddhism and Hinduism.

[trubrit]

Thanks Mortiboy for opening an interesting topic and thanks to prae_mont for enlightening us on the subject.
I have also been told by my Buddhist Adjun that if one of these shrines are broken or have to be moved for any reason, they are normally deposited around a large old tree in the belief that the spirit occupant that has been displaced will then take up residence in the tree and not go back to the former land and bring bad luck to the human occupants .This would account for some areas being literally a graveyard for broken shrines and Buddha images. I think the relationship between the roadside shrines and accident black spots is because many motorists go off the road on sharp bends and inevitably wrap themselves round the tree, thereby entering it in an extremely physical manner .As to what happens to the tree if road widening is carried out? Well ex Pattaya residents will have a good example at Naklua market. There, a very large old tree , bang in the middle of the road has become a roundabout .I am sure there are many more examples of the priority involved .

[mortiboy]

Why thanks TB ! Nice see you again.Yes thanks Prae_mont Good knowledgeable info there!
But Why do they throw these shrines there to break them? Why are they not placed erect as before ?
There is one in front of Big C. Whats that all about!
Is it the house of the Big C ghost?

[trubrit]

Why thanks TB ! Nice see you again.Yes thanks Prae_mont Good knowledgeable info there!
But Why do they throw these shrines there to break them? Why are they not placed erect as before ?
There is one in front of Big C. Whats that all about!
Is it the house of the Big C ghost?

I think you misunderstood Morti. They are put there if broken or displaced. They are not erected as the purpose is to encourage the spirit to leave them and enter the tree as its new home .As for Big C. Most businesses will conform to local customs and as the belief is that the land they are developing is already occupied (By the spirits). They will erect the shrine to encourage them not to leave(that would be bad Karma) but to take up residency in the new home, where they will be regularly fed and watered by the staff and customers .I think the most famous example of this is the Erawan shrine in Bangkok which was erected when a new hotel was built on the site. It is not dedicated to the Lord Buddha but to the 4 headed elephant deity associated with Brahmanism. It is however worshipped at by thousands who hope it will bring them good fortune especially near the lottery due dates .You can even sponsor a troupe of traditional Thai dancers to perform and increase your chances of receiving good luck .An amazing sight .

[parrot]

Thanks for the info, Prae! Very interesting.

There's a photo of a spirit house graveyard at
http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/200 ... ses?blog=5 if you've never seen one.

We were recently in Bangkok with our visiting daughter. Just outside the Novotel at Siam Square there's a shrine that's been there for many years. Whenever we're at the hotel, I usually go down to the shrine in the early morning and have a cup of coffee. My unofficial spot check this past trip showed about 5 out of 10 Thais (even those on the other side of the street) will wai as they pass by. Periodically, people will stop by and leave an offering of food, flowers, drink, incense, etc. The same shrine-keeper has been maintaining the area for more than 10 years.....probably much more than that!
On our last morning in Bangkok, I had my ceremonial coffee and happened upon a rather elaborate ceremony. A van drives up with four elaborately dressed dancers and 3 musicians. A BMW drives up with a good looker (sitting to the left in the photo) with two of her ?friends?. A wide variety of food, fruits, and drinks is set out by the 3 girls.....and the BMW driver offers incense and candles. They take their seats and the bands strikes up the music with the 4 dancers make a series of chants and then a dance. All this is done while the daily pedestrian traffic passes by. I've been told the girl making the offering may have won the lottery or had her prayers otherwise answered and the ceremony is the way of repaying for her success (much as Udon people do at the statue circle by running around it int he evenings when their prayers are answered).
And finally, for those of us who think we understand how things work here....there's this interesting piece in today's Bangkok Post concerning the interaction of spirits and daily life at http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... ble-whammy . If you want more, google 'Warin Buawiratlert' (without the quotes) and read up on his links to the military.

[prae_mont]

Well, I'm not the expert in San Phra phoom topic. I don't even have that at home...lol
The Erawa Shrine is the biggest kind of spirit houses. It's build for Phra Phrom or Brahma (the hindu god with 4 faces, the one who creates the uniververse, the world and everything). San Phra Phrom are often built in the street conjunction, in front of the shopping center or factory plants. It's not suitable for the house. What we have in the house is San Phra Phoom. (it's quite confusing)

We may see in some places, that there are 2 shrines located near each other. One is bigger and one is smaller. The big one as I said before is for Phra Phoom or Phra Phrom (the hindu god). The smaller one is for Chao Tee (the good spirit, who has the power to protect the house and has lived in this piece of land for a very long time). We call that San Chao tee, or San Taa-Yai (Grandparents shrine).

So the next question, why people throw away the shrines?
Maybe people feel that the god is not there anymore or they don't belief in this kind of god. For example when you buy a house from someone, and there is a San Phra Phoom in that house, but you don't believe in that god. So you throw it away. Very easy, isn't it?

And where people can throw thier old San Phra phoom away?
People used to throw in the river or just leave them in the temple. But this is not allowed anymore.
So some people just put the old san phra phoom in the remote area, near the highway under the tree. Because they don't know where to throw it away. And when other people see it, they will do the same. If there's a beginner, there will be follower....lol

Und why under the tree? We thai believe that some gods, angels or good spirits live in the tree. So they can protect old the san phra phom or san chao tee. Or maybe they can be friend. By the way, I found this answer in pantip forum.

And thanks for reading. It's not easy to write these things in English. My English is not that good. I'd better write in German next time

[jorg]

And thanks for reading. It's not easy to write these things in English. My English is not that good. I'd better write in German next time

Thanks for answering, not only you but also the other forum members. Your English is perfect for me, and i think we all understand it a lot better than German .

Earlier there was mentioned that the place/location where these houses are dropped might have to do something with accidents, but i know one on a dirt road and i don't believe so many accidents happened there. So the explanation that somebody just starts there and the rest will follow sounds most logical to me. I will go look if there is indeed a tree there, because before i just noticed the place and never really had a good look (in the picture from a previous post i also don't see a big tree).