Women: Here & There

[lee]

Women: Here & There
Udon Thani Magazine Issue 13 Quarter 3 2010. © udonmap.com

What do women want? One of the greatest inquirers into the human mind, Sigmund Freud, could never adequately answer this question to his satisfaction. Perhaps there is no answer. Or an answer would destroy the beauty and mystery of the enigma that is woman. Or perhaps the answer is so simple, so straightforward and obvious, that, like the purloined letter sitting on the mantelpiece, we look right past it.

Anthropologists believe they can understand the totality of human nature better by getting diverse cultural takes on it – through ethnographies – and then comparing the findings. Are there cultural universals? Essences of what it means to be human throughout the world? Or, is human behavior more culturally determined? With diverse local expressions?

For example, are Thai women really that different from Western women? Or is what lies beneath essentially the same, just wrapped in different, more elegant, packages perhaps?

There is a great and longstanding Western (male) fascination – sometimes obsession – with Asian women in general: their beauty, mystery, elegance, exoticism, and grace. But what are they really like when one peels off the onionskin layers? When one lives day in and day out with them for years, and decades?

Surely, shared lives yield up their secrets one by one, and in the end we are left face to face with a person – a genuine human being with basic human needs, desires, hopes, and dreams like all of us have – or at least have had at some point in our lives.

Obviously, we’re not comparing apples to oranges here; more like comparing Pacific Rose to Golden Delicious apples. Can some generalizations nonetheless be juiced out after years of having eaten both? I believe the answer is yes, though qualified by each individual’s personal experience. After all, just as no two orchards – or apples for that matter – are exactly the same, no two women are the same. In my experience, I’m tempted to say that no one woman is ever the same, as I’m sure some of you will appreciate.

But I beat around the bush, so to speak. In my limited experience, I’ve had occasion to live with both Western and Asian women (though never at the same time), and I’d like to tease out a few basic observations for consideration. What strikes me foremost is that one of them is fairly transparent, while the other appears quite opaque. Need I even tell you which is which? I think not.

Another salient difference that I’ve oft noted, related to the previous observation, is that the transparency exists, is made manifest, through speech – often a great deal of speech: a virtual river – nea, ocean! – of words; what I believe is called logorrhea. Although there are always exceptions, we largely know people first of all through their words, their speech, and only subsequently through their actions; thus, the opaque Eastern ones tend rather more towards reticence, diffidence, if not outright silence. Generally speaking, Westerners wear their heart much more on their sleeve, and things are often made quite explicit, rather than remaining implicit.

Name your poison, gentlemen: worst case scenarios: an hysterical diatribe, or a master stonewaller. Personally, I find silence golden. Although one lives in fear of the inevitable explosion.

Finally, we might touch on ambition. What do they want? What are their goals? And how will they achieve them? Ahh, there’s the rub, methinks. With a definite shortfall in the “opportunity department”, broadly speaking, Thai women must perforce embrace pragmatism, and do what needs to be done – to get what they need. On the other hand, the Western woman frequently has a variety of options, made available to her through her society, her state, and its economy.

Broadly speaking then, the Western woman will normally have what she needs, and be seeking what she wants. While the Thai woman will much more often be seeking what she needs, and getting what she might want would be only a by-product of this – or a bonus.

What they both obviously need is security. As for what they want, well… if Freud couldn’t figure it out, how the heck am I supposed to. It shall probably remain God’s private mystery.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

This is an old age question, I mean, a question that has been asked for centuries.

It was in one of an individual Arthur tales wherein an ugly old hag asks a knight to find the answer to this question. I forgot what his reward was if he found the answer. Anyway, he searched and searched and then realised the answer: women want whatever it is they want at that particular moment in time and space. This want can change within seconds.

That's all there is to it.

[arjay]

Well my starter for ten:

There is a great and longstanding Western (male) fascination – sometimes obsession – with Asian women in general: their beauty, mystery, elegance, exoticism, and grace.

I think that is very true, because westerners more normally view Asian people from afar, so that's only to be expected, at least until one gets to know one's Asian beauty's character. Asian women tend to be more attentive to their partners and somewhat more subservient, (less hung up on female equality etc), which also attracts us western men.

What strikes me foremost is that one of them is fairly transparent, while the other appears quite opaque. Need I even tell you which is which? I think not.

The transparency and opaqueness observed by the writer could be more down to style and (in)directness of communication. Thais are not usually as direct in their communications as westerners and as we know seek to avoid confrontation.

Broadly speaking then, the Western woman will normally have what she needs, and be seeking what she wants. While the Thai woman will much more often be seeking what she needs, and getting what she might want would be only a by-product of this – or a bonus.

I think a very succinct point. Yes Thais first seek to satisfy their more basic needs, and because they tend to have less than westerners tend to be more insecure, and thus more more pre-occupied with building up their security, which perhaps all too often runs over into or becomes an excuse to increase their material wealth, rather than being happy with what they have achieved.

Well those are a few of my thoughts!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I think I prefer the Tales of individual Arthur to that explanation Arjay. 55555

Women want what they want when they want it. It does not matter if they are Asian or not, the answer is the same.

[BobHelm]

By the same token Tilo...
Men want what they want till they get it

[trubrit]

Thought about this question and have come to the conclusion that I am too young and inexperienced to add anything to the subject .

[beki123]

There is always a certain fascinations for the unknown and the "exotic" (or: there has always been this fascination). And it is very common that men and women feel attracted to people from totally different cultures, this is nothing new.

[beki123]

I think that Asian women are the most beautiful women in the world. I basically like their hair because it is so straight (I never manage to get my hair so straight, even though I try) but also because of their eyes.

[pean]

asian women are really beautiful, they mostly have natural beauty not the fake one or artificial one.

[udonuk1]

What do women want from a man ?

Simple really,
ALL women want a sperm donor to give them babies, and a walking ATM to pay for their lifestyle. They look for the richest man they can get, so that they can have his power and wealth. They are histrionic creatures, inferior both mentally and physically. In general, the more attractive they are, the WORSE the above attributes

If you are willing to slave away to give them this easy life, Lao Tear Khun, more and more men are choosing NOT to, and thinking of their own lives.

When was the last time you heard of a woman worrying about "providing" for her family in case she dies , like most MEN do ?

[jackspratt]

Oh dear!

UM seems to have attracted another misogynist.

[pean]

you are 110% right man !!!

[udonuk1]

Oh dear!

UM seems to have attracted another misogynist.

Most women are MISANDRIST too, Thai ladies included.

Women have NO sense of honour whatsoever and anything you give them is now theirs, and they will NEVER EVER consider that in future. "What's your is mine and what's mine's my own" is the female mentality

That is my experience anyway, as long as you give them money and what they want they are OK, you only discover what women are really like when you stop giving them money !

Many men seem to think that women are unfathomable, but they are just simple emotional histrionic creatures, as i said before, at the whims of their monthly hormones . There ARE rules that can be applied to female behaviour, i like Briffault's Laws about women, a french philosopher who lived in New Zealand

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSu ... er5546.htm

I ask JackSprat again When was the last time you heard of a woman worrying about "providing" for her family in case she dies , like most MEN do ? Answer - NEVER NEVER NEVER

Men should stop being expendable and giving their lives away to females.

[udonuk1]

Why are 95% of workplace deaths male ?

Why do men retire much later than women, if women live much longer ?

Of the top 10 killer illnesses, men are in the majority, cancer, heart attack etc, but much more money is spent on women's health

80% of suicides are male, but nothing is done.

Men pay the majority of tax to the government, but the majority is spent on women

In Udon , nearly all of the shops are for WOMEN, hardly any are for men, who works and who spends ?

Men are still chivalrous to women and want to protect them , from the survivors of the Titanic, MOST women survived but MOST men died. More women than children survived. This is not chivalrous, this shows that men are expendable, at the same time as Women in England were wanting equality, men died , giving up places to females.

[LoongLee]

Wow, this old ember from April sure exploded into flame,,,,,,,,,,

I think some of the posters have made very very strong points,,,,,,,, I'm just not going to say which ones,,,,,, :-"

[jackspratt]

Yes, you are right u1 - the sinking of the Titanic was a watershed.

And you really haven't moved on since then. Bit sad really.

BTW, were women in the UK able to vote when the Titanic went down?

[udonuk1]

Women are incapable of using logic, so they resort to personal attacks and "shaming tactics", like saying men are "weak, woman hating, crazy" etc. They think that men are "agressive", but like to think that women are "assertive", they have emotional outbursts whereas men cannot . They are incapable of true empathy, because their view of the world is only in terms of THEIR needs. Men are natural protectors and providers for our families

You trivialised how men died giving their lives for women on the Titanic 97% of the First Class women survived, but only 8% of 2nd class men survived. That sums up women's attitude, THEY ARE NEVER HAPPY or GRATEFUL whatever men may do for them

BOATS not VOTES, working men only received the vote a few years before the Titanic.

Men are now reacting against them, and standing up to them, we know their tricks.

[old-timer]

women's attitude, THEY ARE NEVER HAPPY or GRATEFUL whatever men may do for them

Not entirely true udonuk1,
in OT's experiences anyway.

OT..............

[udonuk1]

All the "male heroism" was futile, is my point. It was the First Class women who survived and then demanded "equality" but they still EXPECTED to have female privilege. This female attitude is still the same today, women have little or no responsibilities for their actions. Men are treated as expendable, but some men are turning their back on all these entitlemnt princesses, and thinking about their own lives


Not for you OT ??

Tell me more OT !

[udonuk1]

Without sex, men have little use for females of course, they cannot chat about cars, beer, inferior at sport, keep their cars dirty . Sex is the strongest urge in the world, women condemn us "They are only after 1 thing", but without it they would all be slaves (or worse). They criticise men, but they dress as seductively as they can , in their attempts to find rich man.

Because of sex, men make many bad choices when it comes to women however, we do not really understand how nasty some women are, until it is too late.