Deaths in Bangkok

[bumper]

Read in The Bangkok Post didn't see it in any other Thai news again this is outside of Thailand:

Link to the Post http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... ir-demands

Thai protesters brace for crackdown as compromise rejected
Posted: 24 April 2010 1932 hrs

BANGKOK - Thailand's anti-government "Red Shirts" said Saturday they were braced for a crackdown to end their protest movement, after the prime minister rejected an offer to compromise on demands for snap polls.

"Abhisit has ordered a crackdown on protesters within 48 hours, that is the information I have learned," said Reds leader Nattawut Saikuar.

Nattawut did not say where the information came from but other Reds leaders said earlier Saturday they had learned from sympathisers in the army that troops were being mobilised despite ongoing negotiations.

Nattawut said the Reds would strip off the symbols of their allegiance -- the red T-shirts and other garb they have sported for weeks -- to help them fight back against the government.

He said they would stick to a policy of non-violence, but other Reds figures speaking on a stage at their massive encampment in the heart of Bangkok's retail district promised a "guerrilla war" against the government.

One leader also threatened to storm a giant shopping mall that lies within their rally base, which has paralysed the shopping hub for three weeks, saying that soldiers and police are hiding inside.

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red," said Jatuporn Prompan. - AFP/vm

[bumper]

Observations Udon:

A group of people were gathered at the normal Red Shirt site for transportation to Bangkok. Not a large group as of yet 1100 Hrs Also saw a group in the back of a pickup going toward the Red Shir radio station. Not one was wearing a red shirt.

[trubrit]

Observations Udon:

A group of people were gathered at the normal Red Shirt site for transportation to Bangkok. Not a large group as of yet 1100 Hrs Also saw a group in the back of a pickup going toward the Red Shir radio station. Not one was wearing a red shirt.

The local radio are pronouncing this as the final showdown and asking all supporters to mass in BK but not to wear red as they may be targeted . They are getting inside information on both police and army movements, as this morning the local stewards were asking volunteers to mass at the X roads in Nong Wor Sor to stop police movements . Sure enough along came some mini buses, full of police from Nong Khai. There was no trouble as apparently they didn't want to go and were quite happy to turn round and go back .

[bumper]

This isn't close to home, it is home:

Reds block police from entering BKK

* Published: 25/04/2010 at 09:50 AM
* Online news: Local News

Groups of red-shirt protesters in the upper northeastern provinces on Sunday morning converged on Mitraphap road in Udon Thani province to stop 178 policemen from joining the security forces in Bangkok, reports said.

The 178 policemen from six police stations in Udon Thani were assigned to help the police in dealing with the mass anti-government rally of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Ratchaprasong intersection - one of Bangkok's main shopping and business areas. The rally started on April 3.

Earlier, high-ranking police officials told the red-shirts that the 178 officers would be working in shifts with the police in the capital but the demonstrators refused to let them pass through.

The protesters also slashed tires of all police cars and criticised the actions of police and soldiers who were involved in the violent clashes on April 10.

The clashes between the red-shirts and authorities resulted in 25 deaths and more than 800 injured.

[arjay]

They are getting inside information on both police and army movements, as this morning the local stewards were asking volunteers to mass at the X roads in Nong Wor Sor to stop police movements . Sure enough along came some mini buses, full of police from Nong Khai. There was no trouble as apparently they didn't want to go and were quite happy to turn round and go back

I trust the police in the mini buses paid their tea money to the BIR (Boys in Red)!

It seems farcical to me when one hears things like an Army boss saying what they will or won't do (e.g. they wont take action - that it must be a political solution), or of the BIB and Army taking sides. I may be being simplistic, but to me the Army and police take their orders from the government, not a group of protesters! Or to put it another way, the police and Army are a tool of the government.

[trubrit]

I trust the police in the mini buses paid their tea money to the BIR (Boys in Red)!

It seems farcical to me when one hears things like an Army boss saying what they will or won't do (e.g. they wont take action - that it must be a political solution), or of the BIB and Army taking sides. I may be being simplistic, but to me the Army and police take their orders from the government, not a group of protesters! Or to put it another way, the police and Army are a tool of the government.

Simplistic is not quite the word I would use in this situation. It is far from simple when members , including some top brass in both organisations do not recognise the governments legality. Before anyone comes in with talk about the election process and Abhisit getting a majority, let me say the reds are not disputing that. Their argument is. They had an elected government already and it was kicked out by the army, so a further election shouldn't have taken place .
I am not stating my viewpoint but as explained to me by the protesters .
Ray . your report is blatantly incorrect. I was there . There was no violence. No damage was done to the vehicles that I could see, other than letting the air out of the tyres.It did not result in any deaths or injuries . I suggest you are referring to the April 10th incident in your last two lines . Please be careful, there are enough stirring the pot , without confusing the issue .

[jackspratt]

I have driven from Ban Dung to Cha Am today, via Highway 2.

If a few buses were held up in Udon, it is not going to make much difference. We passed probably 50-70 full mini-buses, together with about 6 large black police trucks in a several different convoys between Korat and Saraburi.

In addition, we went through probably 4 large police road blocks where all pickups with more than a couple of adults in the back (red shirts or not) were being searched, plus vehicle and drivers licence details being taken, and being input to some form of electronic device about the size of 2 iPhones. The road blocks were a mixture of police and army. In addition to the road blocks, in 3 or 4 places between Udon and Korat the road had been narrowed to a single lane, and army guys were noting and taking details of all "likely" vehicles which went past (without any search).

There was also a large red shirt road block just south of where the Kumpuwapi road comes out on Highway 2, but nothing after that.

Did not see any easily identifiable red shirts in vehicles heading south, but did pass two vehicles with red shirts between Kumpuwapi and Nong Han.

With a farang driving the car, we were waved through on each occasion - easily the most hassle free drive south I have had in 3 years.

[old-timer]

easily the most hassle free drive south I have had in 3 years.

probably quicker than a Air Asia flight, all in all, worth noting.

OT........

[bumper]

Thai Protesters Vow to Hold Key Bangkok Sites
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 25, 2010


Filed at 7:33 a.m. ET

BANGKOK (AP) -- Thai protesters occupying parts of Bangkok to press their demands for new elections vowed Sunday to fight on following a breakdown of negotiations and a televised appearance by the prime minister that offered no solution to the protracted, sometimes bloody crisis.

The so-called Red Shirts urged their supporters in provincial areas to confront the security forces, and many of them began setting up roadblocks outside Bangkok to prevent police reinforcements from entering the city.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva spoke in a nationally televised interview alongside the army chief Sunday, in an apparent effort to dispel persistent rumors that there is a rift between him and the military.

The broadcast came a day after Abhisit rejected a compromise offer by the Red Shirts -- who say the current government is illegitimate -- dashing hopes for a peaceful end to the standoff.

''We won't go home until we win,'' a protest leader, Khwanchai Praipana, told supporters following Abhisit's appearance.

He said many police and soldiers in the provinces sided with the protesters, and had even asked them to prevent fresh security forces from reaching Bangkok.

''Most police based in the provinces don't want to come deal with the Red Shirts in Bangkok,'' he said.

More than 1,000 protesters set up a roadblock overnight along a major highway, deflating the tires of 13 police vans and preventing police reinforcements from reaching Bangkok from the northeast province of Udon Thani, the government said.

Another 300 protesters set up roadblocks on the outskirts of the capital Sunday afternoon to stop hundreds of other police from entering the city, police officials said.

Protesters in the Nong Kai province also tried to block police from heading to Bangkok, but the security forces changed their route, the government said.

Clashes in Bangkok have killed at least 26 people and wounded nearly 1,000 since the Red Shirts began occupying Bangkok's commercial center more than a month ago, closing down five-star hotels and shopping malls, paralyzing daily life in the city and costing merchants millions of dollars a day.

The conflict has been characterized by some as class warfare, pitting protesters from the country's vast rural poor against an elite that has traditionally held power.

''The solution process is ongoing but may not please everyone. The government, and not only the military, is preparing to be ready for what would lead to the next level,'' Abhisit said in a short statement to the interviewer.

He did not specify whether the ''next level'' meant security forces would move to clear the Red Shirt enclave, but government and military leaders have said that the protesters cannot remain in the heart of Bangkok indefinitely.

The program went off the air briefly, with the prime minister later blaming the disruption on ''ill-intentioned people.'' Thailand's police force, army and other agencies are believed to be infiltrated by Red Shirt supporters, but it was unclear whether the opposition somehow disrupted the television signal.

Thai army chief Gen. Anupong Paochinda, who sat beside Abhisit, said the crisis must be solved by legal means and denied there were any significant divisions within military ranks.

''Being a huge organization, it's possible but the number isn't significant enough to say that the military is divided. More importantly, everyone strictly follows orders,'' he said.

''We won't use violence but as I've said earlier, the situation has escalated toward violence so the military will have to adjust its measures,'' the army chief said.

While stopping short of accusing the Red Shirts, Abhisit said that rocket-propelled grenades fired in Thursday's violence in the heart of the city's financial district were launched from a protest stronghold by ''terrorists.'' At least one person was killed Thursday, and 25 others died April 10 during clashes as soldiers unsuccessfully tried to clear the protesters from one of their camps.

Abhisit said he initially underestimated the protest movement. ''I admit, I didn't expect to see such a force ready to go this far,'' he said.

The protesters had previously demanded Parliament be dissolved immediately, while the government said it would disband parliament in six months.

The Red Shirts softened their stance Friday, offering a compromise of 30 days to disband the legislature in a move they said was aimed at preventing further bloodshed. Abhisit rejected that offer.

Meanwhile, six Red Shirts who had been camped at the protesters' increasingly disheveled stronghold in the streets of Bangkok tested positive for the swine flu, BMA General Hospital officials said Sunday.

The Red Shirts consist mainly of rural supporters of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and pro-democracy activists who opposed the military coup that ousted him in 2006. They believe Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments.


Times Reader 2.0: Daily delivery of The Times - straight to your computer.

[/quote]

[trubrit]

Okay a factual eyewitness report of the goings on in Udon district today .About 9am on the no2 highway to Bangkok at Non Sa Adt the village just past where the ladies sell sticky rice in bamboo at the roadside. A red shirt roadblock stopped 10 mini buses containing police recruited from all round this area, on their way to Bangkok. The buses were disabled and the police temporarily detained, no violence took place . Eventually , all but the chief of police were allowed to arrange fresh transportation to go home , escorted by red pick ups .At the same time word was received that another convoy was leaving Nong Khai and travelling out on the Loei road . A road block was hastily organised at the Traffic lights in Nong Wor Sor . Another five mini vans were detained . At no time was there any confrontation between the demonstrators and the police. The tyres were deflated and the junior police and the wife and child of the senior man , who was travelling with them were allowed to return to NK. At this moment he is still at the police check point enjoying some food and having a chat to some other colleagues.The atmosphere was generally more like a carnival than a serious political demonstration .
The road block is being maintained for a few more days on a 24hr basis in case further movements are attempted .Some photos taken today which should squash the more lurid, sensationalist reports we are getting .

Picture 012(2).jpg

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As well as the above there are reports of major troop movements being thwarted nearer to Korat but I have no details and cannot confirm them .

[bumper]

Good report

Thanks

[parrot]

Has Thailand officially entered a state of anarchy? Seems like a strong word to use, but how else do you describe the seemingly complete ineffectiveness of the police? Or are the police willing participants in the red shirt game?

[bumper]

Interesting. I can't think of another way to describe it.

[Khun Paul]

One person mentioned anarchy, well here we have a situation where the rule of law is being blatently flouted even against those who are supposed to uphold it.
Notwithstanding the legality of any Government, any infringement of freedom of movement is against the law, I have not as yet heard that all laws in Thailand have been scrapped therefore the Police and the Military are duty bound to enforce it.
Now that in itself is the problem, as the Police and the Military are political animals unlike other countries where police and Military do actually obey the government orders.

So not only do we seem to have the REDS/YELLOWS/NO SHIRT brigades completely thumbing their noses at all and sundryt we also have the Police and Military overtly making it impossible for any positive action to end this crisis.

So do we have anarchy or a collective heads in the sand and hope it goes away syndrome. Either way Thais are cleverly destroying their opwn country and all we can do is to stand on the edge and wonder. Wonder how come a people who are in the main peace loving get themselves into this farce, is it due to unintelligence or is it due to ignorance, the bhost is still out on that question. But whichever it is or both or even something else, it is a shame that it would appear that it will have to get worse before it gets better, I will say this, if this was the rainy season they wouldn't be there in bangkok that long as they would have to prepare the fields for planting and I am damm sure any Governemnt of any persuasion will do that for them.

[bumper]

Again interesting, the truth is if the Police or military wanted to go through they could do just that. Wonder if part of the problem is they don't know who they will be working for next week?

[bumper]

UDD takes battle to provinces
Police trucks blocked from entering Bangkok

* Published: 26/04/2010 at 12:00 AM
* Newspaper section: News

Red shirt protesters have stepped up their campaign against the government following Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's rejection of the group's proposal that the House be dissolved in 30 days.

Red shirt protesters block police vehicles from the central, northern and northeastern provinces at kilometre marker 36 on Phahol Yothin Road in Klong Luang district, Pathum Thani. The vehicles yesterday carried police for reinforcement in Bangkok. The blockade caused heavy traffic jams on Phahol Yothin Road. Surapol Promsaka na Sakonkanorn

The situation was relatively calm in the capital on Sunday, but tensions flared in Pathum Thani, Udon Thani, Phayao and Ubon Ratchathani where members of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) blocked police from entering Bangkok and led anti-government demonstrations.

About 400 UDD members had blocked the inbound lanes of Phaholyothin Road in Pathum Thani's Khlong Luang district starting at 3.30pm yesterday to prevent vehicles carrying police from Nakhon Phanom, Nakhon Sawan, Chai Nat, Sing Buri and Lop Buri from entering Bangkok.

Thirty-five vans carrying 500 police officers and 15 prisoner transport vehicles were barred from entering Bangkok, as it was believed they were on their way to the capital to crack down on UDD protesters.

The UDD maintains a makeshift checkpoint in Pathum Thani, which UDD co-leader Natthawut Saikua said would be an important site to block government forces from entering the capital.

In Udon Thani, more than 200 UDD supporters from several districts gathered on the Friendship Highway in Non Sa-at district at 11pm on Saturday to stop 178 police officers in 10 vans on their way to Bangkok.

Pol Col Dusit Thongwiset, the police chief Udon Thani's Sang Khom district who led the forces, explained the officers were on their way to replace those already in the capital so that the first batch could return home.

The red shirts were unconvinced and refused to let them go. As the stand-off went on, about 150 additional protesters from nearby provinces such as Nong Khai, Nong Bua Lamphu and Sakon Nakhon arrived and joined the blockade.

The stand-off ended at 3am yesterday after the police agreed to abandon their plan to travel to the capital.

Also yesterday, Udon Thani red shirts set up another makeshift checkpoint at an intersection linking the province with Nong Bua Lamphu. The protesters stopped two vans carrying about 20 police officers from Nong Khai and a truck carrying five soldiers.

UDD leaders in Bangkok yesterday renewed their warning that a government crackdown on demonstrators would further erode Mr Abhisit's legitimacy to run the country.

"Please revise your plan [to use force to disperse the red shirt protesters]," said Mr Nattawut Saikua.

"Mr Abhisit should ask himself if he really wants to see Ratchaprasong intersection turn into a killing zone," he said.

If a violent crackdown on Ratchaprasong happens, it would add fuel to the fire add strengthen the anti-government movement.

"You can demolish the Ratchaprasong protest, but you can't root out the red shirt movement. We will come back even stronger," he said.

UDD supporters would no longer use red as their theme colour as part of a new strategy to prevent demonstrators from being inspected by security forces, who reportedly tried to prevent red shirt demonstrators from joining the protest at Ratchaprasong intersection.

The red shirts had anticipated a military crackdown after the prime minister declined their request that he dissolve parliament in 30 days in exchange for an end to the protests which began in mid-March.

Mr Abhisit reiterated that he would not call for fresh election until the situation returned to normal and conditions are in place for a fair and safe election campaign.

The government also has the duty to pass the state budget for the next fiscal year in parliament, he said.

"We have to discuss all problems including creating an atmosphere conducive to fair elections. The next election must not be a bloody one.

''All candidates must be able to campaign freely as should be the way in a democratic society,'' he said in his weekly programme, Having Confidence in Thailand with Prime Minister Abhisit.

The prime minister said a political situation must not be limited to settling the dispute between the government and the red shirts. "Other groups have started their rallies. They have the same rights as those [in the UDD]. I must listen to all parties," he said.

[trubrit]

Again interesting, the truth is if the Police or military wanted to go through they could do just that. Wonder if part of the problem is they don't know who they will be working for next week?

Well I don't suggest I can answer that question but here are some facts to ponder.
The initial road block on the A2 road was set up the evening of the day before. There were calls for volunteers to man it all of the previous day . How do you think I knew about it in advance? The encampment in Nong Wor Sor was being erected during the night .So either the reds have some spot on insider information or they were informed by the police themselves .Now I would go with the latter. Having watched the arrival of the vans transporting the police, it was as though they knew the blockage would be there .Watching them exiting the vehicles, there was no annoyance or frustration, rather an apparent sense of relief that they would no longer be going .Not at all the reaction one would have expected from any officer prevented from doing his duty .To understand this a bit better you must look back at happenings in Udon just a couple of years ago when Abihisit and his cronies came to power .Most of the Provincial governors who were perceived as Thaksin men were replaced. The Chief of Police who was accused of being too lenient with demonstrators was sacked.I know for myself that many top jobs in City Hall changed hands for political expediency .
Now this sort of carry on can only build resentment in those displaced. In fact it reinforces, not replaces their loyalties .
On top of that the vast majority of lower ranking staff maintained their original allegiances. Now maybe they see a chance to reassert themselves. What better way than to give the reds all the help they can .
Just my thoughts .

[parrot]

"Watching them exiting the vehicles, there was no annoyance or frustration, rather an apparent sense of relief that they would no longer be going ."

Interesting perspective, Trubrit. Thanks for the first hand account.

[santa]

parrot how do I get in contact with you?

[Aardvark]

You could use the PM button !!