Deaths in Bangkok

[jackspratt]

Also note what might resolve this crisis within the next couple of weeks.. The courts have accepted the Democrat dissolution case.http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1 ... ocrat-case The Democrats have 15 days to submit a defense.. That's by the 12th. How soon could the court announce a decision?? Remember, the Red Shirt leaders have promised to turn themselves into the Police on the 15th of May... Could it be the Dems (and the Parliament) will be dissolved by then???

wheels within wheels...

The red shirts have been promising to turn themselves in for weeks - check Arisman's promise from February.

BTW, did you miss this?

Postby jackspratt » April 27, 2010, 9:42 pm
FDK yours is the only report I have read that the tyres were not placed on the BTS tracks at Chidlom.

Is yours a first hand report, and if so, can you give more details?

[thedude]

Which way will the wind blow? Anybody's guess?:

Some possible scenarios & the market reactions...

[bumper]

Amazing Thailand what stopped the clash today, rain of all things

[UdonExpat]

Here's an interesting take on the conflict. Probably a bit more accurate than most I've read.

It is not easy to see any way out from the present impasse in Thailand, which has seen successive governments at the mercy of mob rule while the security forces have failed to do their duty. Much of the international press and media has romanticized the events in Bangkok as some kind of grassroots democracy at work, in which the poor rural masses have come to Bangkok to confront the cruel ruling classes. This is utter nonsense. Thailand is being torn apart by gangs of hoodlums masquerading as democrats and pretending they are embarked on the pure quest for fresh elections.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 423a1.html

[Laan Yaa Mo]

UdonExpat, you might to check the accuracy of that accurate report you just supplied. Where, and who, are these hordes of hoodlums running up and down Bangkok? Rather than a serious analysis, the article is laughable.

[bumper]

I read in one article today what I thought might be a key phrase by the Military Spokesman, we are wearing them down. They blocked off all intersections to the site yesterday. Made an announcement that if anyone wanted to leave to do it then The Reds took that a a sign the crack down was to start. It didn't happen.

One thing that did happen yesterday was the Red reinforcements were stopped.

The Government really sweetened the pot yesterday with a huge loan program for the rural area

Is the Army taking on siege mentality ?

Timing could be good, rice should start very soon. I think the court will move fast on the Democrat case. The question in mind was the EC given enough time I saw what looked like 15 big boxes of evidence given to the court. I would think a case like this in following the money would be very complicated. Does the court have enough evidence to rule? I don't know The Reds pushing this may back fire. If the part is ruled against the reds get what they want an election. What will be the results, short time relief and a change of colors of shirts

What can go wrong Reds try a break out. That would be a blood bath, the seizure of grenades indicates they have a lot more then bamboo sticks, if it is true. one thing for sure somebody does, The guy who dropped them and ran was not identified but papers in the had the name of a Police Sgt's name on them . again if it's true

The smart thing fold up the tents raise hell in rural areas. Why don;t they do that the same reason they have such support. No one cares if it doesn't happen in Bangkok. If it effects Bangkok then things are taken seriously.

Don't take anything I have said to mean I support any group I don't it's not my business. But I live and pay attention to what happens around me. This was no more then thinking it through, as to how it will effect my family. So far I don't see anything that would effect us.

[UdonExpat]

Well, at least Tilokarat is having a good laugh because he doesn't agree with the opinion of the writer. I'm not in a position to determine the accuracy of the facts in the article. I guess Tilo is.

I tend to agree with the writer's opinion because I think he's fairly accurate in his assessment of the players in the dispute and their roles. The hoodlums are everywhere and at all levels of the conflict. The people in the streets are the pawns in a conflict that is over who gets to rip off the country. The power brokers don't want to share the pie; they want it all for themselves. Doesn't matter what color; yellow, red, pink, brown, green, black, or whatever. The corruption is nearly total. The idealists are cannon fodder on the front lines. My wife tells me the guy from Udon, leading the protest near Zee Plaza went to McDonald's for a happy meal when the fighting started, but then she may have been pulling my leg.

It's not my concern except for how it might affect my safety, but it is interesting to watch how conflict is dealt with here.

It does seem that the police/military have finally stepped up to the plate. Demonstrators with no food and replacements will probably wither. Sieges have been used for centuries with varied outcomes. Usually lack of food has caused one side or the other to capitulate. Sometimes those besieged had to give up, sometimes the besiegers couldn't keep their larger army feed. I suspect the red shirts will run out of food long before the police and military.

[trubrit]

. My wife tells me the guy from Udon, leading the protest near Zee Plaza went to McDonald's for a happy meal when the fighting started, but then she may have been pulling my leg.


It does seem that the police/military have finally stepped up to the plate. Demonstrators with no food and replacements will probably wither. Sieges have been used for centuries with varied outcomes. Usually lack of food has caused one side or the other to capitulate. Sometimes those besieged had to give up, sometimes the besiegers couldn't keep their larger army feed. I suspect the red shirts will run out of food long before the police and military.

Well I am sorry I can't guarantee the accuracy of this information but I am reasonably sure in my own mind .
Firstly the guy leading the protest. There are many but I presume you mean Khun Kwanchai, the owner of Radio 97.5 the red station here in Udon .It was rumoured he had been arrested as he was missing for over two hours . His explanation given personally on the radio last evening . He was in one of the lead trucks in the convoy going towards Don Muang, riding on top of a 10 wheeler operating the tannoy system , when he received a phone call that snipers were positioned ahead to take him out.He was immediately taken below, given a change of clothing and spirited away by his close associates .No one knew where he had gone except those who arranged his disappearance . His absence led to the arrested, rumours .Now any one who has met him knows he is a very large man so that was no mean fete .He didn't identify who the gunmen were, just simply , men in black .I am sure he wasn't getting a burger .
Now your point about starving them out .A bit like those women of old cutting off the men's conjugals aye .Think that might be more effective .
I posted yesterday about the 300 police who wanted to go home . Well one of their reasons was that they had only had boiled rice to eat for a week . As for the demonstrators. You obviously haven't seen the set up down there. Its virtually a fully fledged market on the site . In fact , the main reason for the convoy yesterday was to go and personally thank all the vendors at talad thaii, for their support in providing food .So I think your solution is about on par with Abhisits. I am sure he welcomes all further contributions though .He seems to have exhausted his own . :-"
Now further news. Supporters from Udon are being urged to join a convoy going to Bangkok on Sunday night. Monday being a holiday in place of Labour day , May 1st .I understand other regions are also arranging their own .So it would seem, rather than loosing heart the reds are getting more determined .
The check point at Nong Wor Sor has now been dismantled and the Mini buses given back to the Nong Khai Police . Intact and undamaged .

[bumper]

How the hell did this turn into a debate. I just hope they go home alive.

[UdonExpat]

trubrit wrote:
So I think your solution is about on par with Abhisits.

Actually, I don't have a solution, nor have I offered one. Abhisit also has not had a solution thus far, but is probably much better able to do so than I.

It's a shame the police don't take better care of their men. I hope they get home for a decent meal.

The meals at the demonstration site have been remarkable, but if their supplies are cut off that will end.

Time will tell if the reinforcements, from either side, make it to their destinations.

I also hope they all make it home.

[FrazeeDK]

Rajaprasong "choked" off.. not a chance..

I walked through Rajaprasong tonight from Ploenchit/Chidlom, down Rajadamri, and through Lumpini Park by an individual's statue. At around 1730, the Red Shirt commisarriat was issuing free food to hundreds and hundreds of people.. There was no impediment to entering into the Rajaprasong area. The Reds are giving cursory glances at entrances at Ploenchit/Chidlom and Sarasin/Lang Suan.. A steady stream of motorcycle taxis brings people in and out along with some trucks/cars. The division of Red control and Police control is clearly defined with about about 500 cops residing in Lumpini Park, some billeted only 75 meters from the SW gate near the Rajadamri/Silom intersection where hundreds of Reds are camped out. Outside the Park gate, totally Red city, inside the gate, perhaps 20-30 Reds in the park, a few standing by the cops billeting area chatting up the police.. The cops in the park were totally laid back.. I saw very few in uniform, most were in PT attire laying around on the grass, walking or jogging.. If the government has "closed off the Rajaprasong area" they must be setting up blockades much further out. I've been told by friends that there are large Police presences at Sukhumvit 19 and Asoke.. Now, how that would stop Reds getting into Rajaprasong considering the traffic now going in and out as well as the BTS still being open baffles me..

The tension is higher.. that's my observation and gut feeling as I walked through the Red areas.. Where a week ago I could give my goofy Falang smile and a nod to anyone and get a smile/nod in return.. Today, very few were nodding back or smiling.. Most were rather grim-faced.. I didn't hear any snide comments, just got some hard looks...

[jackspratt]

Kwanchai not getting a burger

http://twitpic.com/1j2pkd

[bumper]

Verified four sources:

Asia Pacific News

Thai hospital evacuated after protesters stormed in
Posted: 30 April 2010 1256 hrs

A Thai patient is evacuated from Chulalongkorn Hospital in Bangkok



BANGKOK : A hospital in the Thai capital evacuated most of its patients Friday after it was stormed by Red Shirt protesters who mistakenly believed troops were hiding there following recent violence.

Chulalongkorn Hospital also stopped receiving outpatients following the Thursday night incident, in which some 100 Red Shirt guards searched its buildings for troops they feared were readying a crackdown.

Tensions are high in Bangkok following the worst political violence in almost two decades which has left 27 people dead and almost 1,000 injured this month in a series of bloody confrontations.

The 1,400-bed hospital sent most of its patients to 10 other facilities in Bangkok and was considering how to cope with the protesters occupying a large part of the city's nearby commercial district, a spokeswoman said.

"For outpatients, if their symptoms are not serious we asked them to postpone treatment," the spokeswoman said.

The Reds, who have occupied sections of Bangkok for over a month in their bid to force snap elections, have alleged the hospital was used in a grenade attack on a pro-government rally last week that killed one and wounded dozens.

The government said the grenades were fired from inside the Reds' camp -- an accusation the movement has denied.

The Reds publicly apologised for the storming of the hospital, saying guards told demonstration leaders that they saw soldiers inside the facilities, which are located near one of their main barricades.

"On behalf of all leaders, I apologise to the public and Chulalongkorn Hospital for the incident," Red leader Weng Tojirakarn said. "The situation got out of control.

"It is not our policy to obstruct hospital operations."

Thailand's Medical Council slammed the storming and asked protesters to respect medical personnel, while police said they would deploy 100 officers to the hospital to ensure neither security forces nor Reds use the grounds.

Many of the Reds come from Thailand's rural poor and urban working classes and seek the return of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and now lives overseas to avoid a jail term for corruption.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva vowed to prosecute those who were involved in the hospital incident.

"What happened last night was a shock to hospital management," he said in a television address. "Those who violated the law must be prosecuted."

The Reds confronted troops Wednesday on a highway in Bangkok's northern suburbs, in a clash that left one soldier dead and injured 18 people.

Troops fired into the air and also directly at the Reds, and Abhisit said Friday that his government would no longer allow the protesters to move out of their main rally site and disrupt Bangkok, which is under a state of emergency.

The premier also announced that authorities had made an arrest in connection with a grenade fired at the defence ministry last month, but did not give further details.

"We will move ahead aggressively but some of our work cannot be disclosed," Abhisit said.

Police said Friday they had arrested and charged a 37-year-old Red Shirt sympathiser for allegedly insulting the kingdom's royal family on Facebook.

Internet content seen as overtly critical of Thailand's individual -- who enjoys a semi-divine status among many citizens -- has been under close scrutiny since the Reds began their campaign in 2006.

More than 6,200 Web pages have been removed since 2007 for insulting the royal family, according to officials.

an individual Adulyadej, who has been a stabilising force during six politically turbulent decades on the throne, has been in hospital since last September.

- AFP/fa/ir

[bumper]

Verified three sources

KHON KAEN REDS
Dr Tul cancels campaign in Khon Kaen
Dr Tul


Leader of multicoloured campaign decided to return to Bangkok on Friday after a group of red shirts in Khon Kaen province blocked an exit road near Khon Kaen airport and searched for him.

They stopped every vehicle going out of the airport and searched for Dr Tul Sitthisomwong.

Tul is a leader of the multicoloured protests organised to counter the red shirts protest and to show their opposition to the reds' demand for PM Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the Parliament.

The doctor arrived at Khon Kaen airport by TG 044 at 1.30pm. He was scheduled to attend a campaign organised by multicoloured people in Khon Kaen at 4pm.

Seeing the red shirts outside the airport, organisers of the campaign had an urgent meeting with Tul who arrived and waited inside the airport, suggesting that he cancelled his plan and returned to Bangkok.

They informed Tul that leader of the red shirts in Khon Kaen who led the searching was Sunya Simma, who led red shirts in seizing military trucks and detaining soldiers in the province recently.

Tul then decided to take TG 045 at 2.20pm to return to Bangkok. The activity in the province started as scheduled.

[FrazeeDK]

embarrassed Reds clear road in front of Chulalongkorn Hospital (Rajadamri Rd)
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/thaksin ... f-hospital

So, throughout the nearly 3 weeks of Red occupation of the adjacent boulevard the hospital has stayed open.. the public address systems blaring, grenades launched down Silom, violence at Silom/Rajadamri intersection didn't seem to bother hospital management. Yet last night's "inspection" of the facility by Reds looking for non-existent soldiers "scared" the patients so all were evacuated. Another article I read said the initial Red incursions were stopped when the hospital administrator negotiated to let 5 Red leaders and journalists "inspect" the facility.. Of course, as the PM ratchets up the rhetoric of an impending "crackdown" and "blockade" of the Reds' zone, what better way to ensure fewer innocent by-standers are hurt than by evacuating over a thousand patients from beside the prospective engagement area.??

As with most media articles from either side, I'll take a little salt with it when reviewing them...

wheels within wheels....

[bumper]

So do I. It seems like both sides enjoy mud slinging. In all honesty the removal of the workers bothers me that is akin to kidnapping. But, I wasn't there maybe the workers thought it was a good break. Who knows. One thing for sure the news is making a very big deal out this. The simple fact is they are breaking the law I see no need for the mud slinging. The other fact the Government is not enforcing the law.

I see comments from the reds saying they were amazed they were met with force the other day. Although they were told that was what would happen . I think I would be surprised to as there have so many threats never followed up on. If there is going to be a cause for major injury I think the failure to follow up will be a big part of it. They simply don't believe what they have been told. Can't blame them for that under the circumstances.

What was the solution when the no color leader showed up in Khan Kean, go back to Bangkok. So I guess it's a fight for a certain people to have Democracy and the right to protest. But, not for the rest of the people in Thailand. Has the Government acted on the No shirts gathering with more then five people No. Yes there is double standard and it comes from both sides.

I'm relieved I don't have to make a decision about who is right or wrong. I don't think I could do it.

These are my thoughts on the matter.
I like your description wheels in wheels

[FrazeeDK]

further wheels within wheels. The participation of security forces in the current political unrest shows illustrates the reason why the whole mess is tied in knots.. Cops and soldiers doing what they've always done behind the scenes; acting in a mafia-like manner to support the side(s) they see as benefiting them in the long run... How can the Abhisit government cut this Gordian Knot when the entire security apparatus appears to be involved..

here's the Polcie Sergeant Major who was carrying the 63 M-79 rounds.. He also had "two barrels" of M-79 rounds, M-16's, M-16 ammo and other items at his house... He said he's neither Red nor Yellow but was merely selling munitions to a "client".. If you watched the Thai news yesterday morning they interveiwed this handcuffed, smirking a--hole.. Of course, no questions were asked as to who were the "clients" and what police station does this yutz work at that would allow him to roam around selling "war weapons".. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/securit ... ar-weapons

another story that popped up today was the alleged RPG attack upon the Temple of the Emerald Buddha.. More cops (or perhaps after the incident "former cops)involved.. Again, who do they work for and how could they wander around doing RPG attacks when they're supposed to be at the station...http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... dha-temple http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28366.html The DSI says a Police LTC paid the suspects 500,000 Baht to do the deed. Have they grabbed that LTC yet???

and here's "Seh Daeng" MG Khattiya still out and about.. How could an "inactive" yet serving general be allowed by the military to engage in these activities. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28375.html

and the irony of all of this is that while the government accuses the Reds of harboring "terrorists" a constant daily stream of stories are in all Thai media of deaths, injuries and destruction in the south.. I'll wager that there have been more deaths in the south since the riots on 10 April than the 27 or so deaths from the current civil unrest in Bangkok, yet, since it is "not in Bangkok" it doesn't get the local or international media splash that the Reds occupation of Rajaprasong gets...

what a mess........

[Khun Paul]

Now according to news reports ( which I may add I take with a pinch of salt ) the red leadership is fragmented. barricaides or no barricades and still we hear of the Red leadership wandering around bangkok unimpeded by anyone, when in fact we have maybe 20,000 odd security forces in various uniforms who just seem powerless to act in concert.
No wonder the Govt is losing patience, yet all I can gather is now the Thais are reaping what they sow, and I say Good Riddance.

[Texpat]

Thai cops acting exclusively in their own self interest.
Selling weapons to anyone who will buy them -- even if the same police will be charged with maintaining peace among the buyers later in the day.

Clever, huh? Gotta look after yourself first, I suppose.

IMO, police corruption is the single biggest problem in Thailand. Fix his one problem and a whole array of social ills disappear.

[nkstan]

Thai cops acting exclusively in their own self interest.
Selling weapons to anyone who will buy them -- even if the same police will be charged with maintaining peace among the buyers later in the day.

Clever, huh? Gotta look after yourself first, I suppose.

IMO, police corruption is the single biggest problem in Thailand. Fix his one problem and a whole array of social ills disappear.

ow do they fix that problem?