Parrot it seems to me that if all is to be believed, the reds will actually have their own government following the next election sometime later this year (ie nearly 1 year before they are legally scheduled).
I therefore struggle to understand why, having lived under the conditions they have for many years, it is so important for those elections to happen in the very near future. I further struggle to believe that such an early election could be held in any atmosphere that even closely resembles free, open and fair in very large parts of Issan (and particularly around Udon).
Deaths in Bangkok
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
No disagreement from me, KP. The mentality of the villagers isn't going to change overnight....slip them a few baht and they'll vote for anyone. Until that changes, they'll not achieve much.
As for why now after so many years, perhaps the white folks in the US asked the same question in the early 60's when Martin Luther individual took to the streets of Mississippi and DC.
As for why now after so many years, perhaps the white folks in the US asked the same question in the early 60's when Martin Luther individual took to the streets of Mississippi and DC.
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jackspratt
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Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Perhaps they (the white folks) did, but you seem to have avoided answering my question. 
I also understand that Thai people in all areas of the country have the right to vote - that being the case for many years. =D>
I also understand that Thai people in all areas of the country have the right to vote - that being the case for many years. =D>
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
It would be interesting to find out what the standard Thai public education school provided to thai students on the meaning of Thai democracy. And does it provide education on the Thai Constitution.nkstan wrote: I would bet my jammies that those people couldn't specifically tell you want they meant when saying ''for democracy''!Anything other than their programmed response of majority votes should decide the gov't,irregardless whether they are fraudelent and not considering the fact that the Parliment system,means a majority of seated MPs decides the PM!
Saying that, my guess is that no two English-speaking Thai residents will totally agree on what democracy is, other than some citizens voting.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Excepting the usual denial of voting rights to the too young, the crimanal, the insane or feeble, the immigrant and the retired foreigner, and so forth and so on.jackspratt wrote:I also understand that Thai people in all areas of the country have the right to vote - that being the case for many years. =D>
Wonder how many of the northen Hill Tribe people are able to and did vote.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
First, the black slaves were freed and had all U.S. rights, including voting, in the mid-nineteenth century. A great many blacks were free and U.S. citizens for many decades before that. My guess is that you have been taken in by political lies and misinformion. What are you inferring?parrot wrote: As for why now after so many years, perhaps the white folks in the US asked the same question in the early 60's when Martin Luther individual took to the streets of Mississippi and DC.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Let me chime in a bit as remember ( not good ) women got the right to vote before the blacks. Both obtained through demonstration's. Bot neither with the use of weapons by then. The blacks certainly had enough used on them.
I too have thought the next scheduled would give them the opportunity, to vote and change things and they would win, The problem the vote buying use it again an the same thing will happen when it hits the election commission. One year is not going to endear the domocrate's to the Issan people. They change the pattern and not buy votes the EC won't have a way to get at them. So what has motivated the push?
If it was to make people aware they are done go home and get ready for the election.
So one has to wonder what or who gain by an early election?
I know Thaksin has came up many times. But is that really it?
That same year will get him what he wants as well.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Democrats were disolved by the Supreme Court. They can tie it up a year with legal challenges, But, still face election in a short time frame.
So where is the value in getting so many people injuried and killed.
That part I really don't understand.
I too have thought the next scheduled would give them the opportunity, to vote and change things and they would win, The problem the vote buying use it again an the same thing will happen when it hits the election commission. One year is not going to endear the domocrate's to the Issan people. They change the pattern and not buy votes the EC won't have a way to get at them. So what has motivated the push?
If it was to make people aware they are done go home and get ready for the election.
So one has to wonder what or who gain by an early election?
I know Thaksin has came up many times. But is that really it?
That same year will get him what he wants as well.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Democrats were disolved by the Supreme Court. They can tie it up a year with legal challenges, But, still face election in a short time frame.
So where is the value in getting so many people injuried and killed.
That part I really don't understand.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Quote...That part I really don't understand end quote..
Guess what neither do the majority either..........But as they say ...This is Thailand ............!
Guess what neither do the majority either..........But as they say ...This is Thailand ............!
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Thai politics is so wonderfully bizarre that it is fascinating to speculate on where things will go.
If I remember right, the poor people won the last election, but, lo and behold the Election Commission decided that they broke the rules and disbanded the party and that was that. Why the protestors think it will be any different with a subsequent election I don't know.
It seems all the parties break the rules and then the election commission prosecutes those who are not in favor with them. The threat to the Democrats is from violations alleged to have happened in 2005. I don't really think anything will come of it, as it is probably just a ploy to try and placate the protestors.
I think Taksin is the only elected prime minister to ever complete a full term and the only prime minister to ever win a second term. Previously they were all ousted before the completion of their first term in one way or another. Elections haven't been able to create political stability thus far, and I don't see how an election will solve anything this time.
Nevertheless, elections may diffuse the current crisis and provide some breathing room until the next one.
If I remember right, the poor people won the last election, but, lo and behold the Election Commission decided that they broke the rules and disbanded the party and that was that. Why the protestors think it will be any different with a subsequent election I don't know.
It seems all the parties break the rules and then the election commission prosecutes those who are not in favor with them. The threat to the Democrats is from violations alleged to have happened in 2005. I don't really think anything will come of it, as it is probably just a ploy to try and placate the protestors.
I think Taksin is the only elected prime minister to ever complete a full term and the only prime minister to ever win a second term. Previously they were all ousted before the completion of their first term in one way or another. Elections haven't been able to create political stability thus far, and I don't see how an election will solve anything this time.
Nevertheless, elections may diffuse the current crisis and provide some breathing room until the next one.
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LoveDaBlues
- udonmap.com
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- Joined: December 30, 2005, 3:06 pm
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Break a Thai's rice bowl, get ready to pay in blood.
The (mostly) yellow shirt business owners that have been losing millions of baht in BKK won't stand for it much longer. They'll spread the money and buy the shootings of red-shirts in greater numbers. Then the big party and a few hundred baht a day payoff won't look so appealing to the farmers and unemployed from Issan.......they'll head back to the villages. The red tidal wave will look more like a red mud puddle.
The (mostly) yellow shirt business owners that have been losing millions of baht in BKK won't stand for it much longer. They'll spread the money and buy the shootings of red-shirts in greater numbers. Then the big party and a few hundred baht a day payoff won't look so appealing to the farmers and unemployed from Issan.......they'll head back to the villages. The red tidal wave will look more like a red mud puddle.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
"My guess is that you have been taken in by political lies and misinformion."
I think not. Glenn Beck wasn't around in those days. Man did walk on the moon, the CIA didn't cause 9-11, Blacks faced prejudice and discrimination in almost every aspect of life, from jobs and housing to education. Oops, Barrack Obama was born in Hawaii. It's all true!
Sorry, back on topic:
"then the big party and a few hundred baht a day payoff won't look so appealing to the farmers and unemployed from Issan.......they'll head back to the villages. The red tidal wave will look more like a red mud puddle."
They may head back to the villages, but that's not going to fix the problem.
I think not. Glenn Beck wasn't around in those days. Man did walk on the moon, the CIA didn't cause 9-11, Blacks faced prejudice and discrimination in almost every aspect of life, from jobs and housing to education. Oops, Barrack Obama was born in Hawaii. It's all true!
Sorry, back on topic:
"then the big party and a few hundred baht a day payoff won't look so appealing to the farmers and unemployed from Issan.......they'll head back to the villages. The red tidal wave will look more like a red mud puddle."
They may head back to the villages, but that's not going to fix the problem.
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LoveDaBlues
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- Joined: December 30, 2005, 3:06 pm
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
parrot wrote:"My guess is that you have been taken in by political lies and misinformion."
I think not. Glenn Beck wasn't around in those days. Man did walk on the moon, the CIA didn't cause 9-11, Blacks faced prejudice and discrimination in almost every aspect of life, from jobs and housing to education. Oops, Barrack Obama was born in Hawaii. It's all true!
Sorry, back on topic:
"then the big party and a few hundred baht a day payoff won't look so appealing to the farmers and unemployed from Issan.......they'll head back to the villages. The red tidal wave will look more like a red mud puddle."
They may head back to the villages, but that's not going to fix the problem.
If you're a yellow shirt it does. The money flows again and the slavery continues.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Well this one was not hard to verify at all, but on the evening news they said tanks were being prepared, this they are referring up amored Humvees. I got a bit scale of the tire walls they have built twice the higthe of the man walking in front of them. Either he was awfully short or that is a tall pile. A tank would make a much better choice. They don't seem to have anything that would harm one. And they could in fact move the tires without firing a shot. May look more drastic but in the end could be the best thing to do and limit injuries. Who knows
Breakingnews » Breakingnews
CRES: Armoured vehicles to be used
* Published: 3/05/2010 at 02:11 PM
* Online news: Breakingnews
Armoured vehicles are being readied for use in the dispersal of the prolonged anti-government rally at Bangkok's Ratchaprasong commercial district, spokesman for the government's Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said on Monday.
The armoured vehicles would protect soldiers from attack by the protesters, who could be armed, and would help avoid violence, Col Sansern said. The vehicles had not reached Bangkok yet.
Col Sansern used the term รถหุ้มเกราะ (rod hum gror) -- which generally refers to armoured humvees.
He said there were an estimated 6,000 to 8,000 UDD protesters at Ratchaprasong.
"There are fewer protesters, thanks to the officials who have set up more checkpoints," he said.
"The number of demonstrators is not the main determinant for the government to decide when it will begin the crackdown. We need to take into account the safety of people, especially the elderly and children in front of the UDD stage," the army spokesman said.
He said the anti-government leaders should allow reporters to ask people at the rally whether they want to continue the protest or return home.
He said the protesters were being overseen by the UDD guards.
Col Sansern said the CRES wondered whether the UDD leaders were hiding weapons in Lumpini Park, as they refused to retreat from the area.
"The CRES also would like to affirm that no troops have been deployed in Chulalongkorn Hospital," he said.
Troops were stationed around the hospital to maintain security, but had never used the hospital grounds as a hideout, as claimed by the UDD.
Breakingnews » Breakingnews
CRES: Armoured vehicles to be used
* Published: 3/05/2010 at 02:11 PM
* Online news: Breakingnews
Armoured vehicles are being readied for use in the dispersal of the prolonged anti-government rally at Bangkok's Ratchaprasong commercial district, spokesman for the government's Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said on Monday.
The armoured vehicles would protect soldiers from attack by the protesters, who could be armed, and would help avoid violence, Col Sansern said. The vehicles had not reached Bangkok yet.
Col Sansern used the term รถหุ้มเกราะ (rod hum gror) -- which generally refers to armoured humvees.
He said there were an estimated 6,000 to 8,000 UDD protesters at Ratchaprasong.
"There are fewer protesters, thanks to the officials who have set up more checkpoints," he said.
"The number of demonstrators is not the main determinant for the government to decide when it will begin the crackdown. We need to take into account the safety of people, especially the elderly and children in front of the UDD stage," the army spokesman said.
He said the anti-government leaders should allow reporters to ask people at the rally whether they want to continue the protest or return home.
He said the protesters were being overseen by the UDD guards.
Col Sansern said the CRES wondered whether the UDD leaders were hiding weapons in Lumpini Park, as they refused to retreat from the area.
"The CRES also would like to affirm that no troops have been deployed in Chulalongkorn Hospital," he said.
Troops were stationed around the hospital to maintain security, but had never used the hospital grounds as a hideout, as claimed by the UDD.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
and the latest!!! Let's used armored cars to clear out Rajaprasong!! http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... -a-roadmap
OH yes, this will work great!!! And of course note that the article says, "The armoured vehicles would protect soldiers from attack by the protesters, who could be armed, and would help avoid violence, Col Sansern said. The vehicles had not reached Bangkok yet." I could have sworn I saw Armor Branch insignia on that guy.. The absolute worst thing you can do is send out armored vehicles by themselves into an urban environment to clear protesters without having infantry support.. And waiting for the Armored HUMMV's (so the article implies) to come from where?? Probably down south and taking them away from down there is just endangering the troops that would use them....
What story will come next?? Will the Thai Air Force use their F-16's?? Will they sail their aircraft carrier up the Chao Phya??
I'll let you know if I hear the rumble of tracks on Ploenchit.. It's about 75 meters from my apartment..
OH yes, this will work great!!! And of course note that the article says, "The armoured vehicles would protect soldiers from attack by the protesters, who could be armed, and would help avoid violence, Col Sansern said. The vehicles had not reached Bangkok yet." I could have sworn I saw Armor Branch insignia on that guy.. The absolute worst thing you can do is send out armored vehicles by themselves into an urban environment to clear protesters without having infantry support.. And waiting for the Armored HUMMV's (so the article implies) to come from where?? Probably down south and taking them away from down there is just endangering the troops that would use them....
What story will come next?? Will the Thai Air Force use their F-16's?? Will they sail their aircraft carrier up the Chao Phya??
I'll let you know if I hear the rumble of tracks on Ploenchit.. It's about 75 meters from my apartment..
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
gag gag.. Too much salt and it still won't go down.. From the previous article:'
'
"He said the anti-government leaders should allow reporters to ask people at the rally whether they want to continue the protest or return home.
He said the protesters were being overseen by the UDD guards.
Col Sansern said the CRES wondered whether the protest leaders were hiding weapons in Lumpini Park, as they refused to retreat from the area."
The implication is that the UDD guards are holding people in the rally site against their will.. Utter and total crap.. I've walked the entire Rajaprasong area and seen numerous people walking in and out without hindrance. A constant stream of motorcycle taxis takes people in and out. In fact, there are numerous alleys and side streets into the area which are not guarded nor blocked in any fashion.
On Col Sansern's allegation of "hiding weapons in Lumpni Park".. that too is utter twaddle. There is a very tiny presence of Red shirts in Lumpini in the NW corner.. However, the Police are now billeting over 500 cops between 3 buildings in the park.. It is completely impossible to "hide" weapons in Lumpini Park with the current police presence. Now perhaps Sanserm is referring to the West side parking lot area of Lumpini and Rajadamri avenue immediately outside Lumpini.. Could there be weapons hidden there?? Perhaps and likely.. That said, I find it beyond belief that if indeed there are weapons there that the government doesn't have dozens of operatives keeping an eye on the whole scene...
'
"He said the anti-government leaders should allow reporters to ask people at the rally whether they want to continue the protest or return home.
He said the protesters were being overseen by the UDD guards.
Col Sansern said the CRES wondered whether the protest leaders were hiding weapons in Lumpini Park, as they refused to retreat from the area."
The implication is that the UDD guards are holding people in the rally site against their will.. Utter and total crap.. I've walked the entire Rajaprasong area and seen numerous people walking in and out without hindrance. A constant stream of motorcycle taxis takes people in and out. In fact, there are numerous alleys and side streets into the area which are not guarded nor blocked in any fashion.
On Col Sansern's allegation of "hiding weapons in Lumpni Park".. that too is utter twaddle. There is a very tiny presence of Red shirts in Lumpini in the NW corner.. However, the Police are now billeting over 500 cops between 3 buildings in the park.. It is completely impossible to "hide" weapons in Lumpini Park with the current police presence. Now perhaps Sanserm is referring to the West side parking lot area of Lumpini and Rajadamri avenue immediately outside Lumpini.. Could there be weapons hidden there?? Perhaps and likely.. That said, I find it beyond belief that if indeed there are weapons there that the government doesn't have dozens of operatives keeping an eye on the whole scene...
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
From the other thread apparently red shirts form this general area are in route there tomorrow. They better get those tires down in a hurry or this is going to be a mess. That is of course if the government really acts this time. This becoming like cry wolf.
What gets me they make an announcement every time well in advance. That is nuts they want to take them out make the announcement at the site give those who want to leave and get out of harms way go and then proceed.
What have they done now make sure there will be more people there.
What gets me they make an announcement every time well in advance. That is nuts they want to take them out make the announcement at the site give those who want to leave and get out of harms way go and then proceed.
What have they done now make sure there will be more people there.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Can someone please explain to this ignorant English person, what the HELL has the black vote given to American blacks got anything to do with this post of for that matter to Thailand, it has absolutly nothing to do with this farce currently being played out in Bangkok.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Well I think it stated out as a comparison to a protest and what we see today, which in most countries would be treason the over throw of the government. A lot of difference between the two.
Re: Deaths in Bangkok
Looks like a realistic deal hope they accept it. If they do they have accomplished a lot. Where it may fall apart trust. Control of the media that is shakey. It's a beginning and I think a lot more work needs to be done, But, better done at the confrence table. I think they can hold their heads high and say they won. They have proven they are force to be reconized and therefore will not be ignored. Follow the EC rules and win the election, pretty simple stuff. Gives them six month to campaign. Aren't the TRT group at the point they can run again?
PM announces next election will be held on Nov 14
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced Monday night on TV that he will hold the next election on November 14 if if his roadmap to solve the political problems is not interrupted.
He said the road map has five elements as following:
1) All parties concerned must join forces to uphold the monarchy.
2) The government will carry out national reform to do away with injustice in the economic and olitical structures.
As part of the process, the government will provide good social welfare, education, health etc, as well as other things to people suffering from other plights.
3) The government will ensure that the media will function as a constructive tool.
4) The government will set up an independent committee to investigate the deaths and injuries in clashes between troops, police and protesters on April 10, at Silom and on Vibhavadi Road.
5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.
The Nation
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Laan Yaa Mo
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Re: Deaths in Bangkok
I am not so sure that this is fair, and realistic. Other than having all parties join to uphold and support the monarchy, everything else starts off, 'the government....' Where is the red shirt voice? It might be better for the government to work with the red shirt politicians to devise solutions to problems in consultation with the 'people' rather than have the government lead everyone to the goal. As it stands this is a programme by the government, for the government and led by the government.