Sin Sod, marry in udon

[pompui]

Who gets the dough when lesbians marry?

Probably the lady in the relationship,Tomboy should pay for everything including toys(rampant rabbit and the like)

And since they cannot marry in Thailand then Tomboy needs to pay also for flight tickets.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

That is my understanding too. Tom pays for Dee.

It seems they just start living together without thought of a marriage ceremony or trip to the amphoe muang.

Some academic wrote a book about Toms and Dees a few years back. You can always get it at Asia Books, or any other bookstore that sells English-language histories and studies of Thailand. However, I have not seen one of those stores in Thailand, maybe, the new guy, 'the Librarian', carries it.

[BKKSTAN]

My wifes oldest sister and the most productive worker,economically, in the family,is a lesbian tomboy.She has bought 3 houses in 3 different serious relationships,in the midst of building the third in Roi-Et at the moment.She finances all the kariokie parties with her group of lesbian friends and is the big spender showoff when she comes back to the village!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Gee BKKSTAN it seems that we are always in agreement...let's just not discuss various coloured shirts. 55555

Your sister-in-law seems to be a real go-getter with an ability to have a good and rich life.

In my above post I meant to write that you probably could not procure the book, 'Toms and Dees' in Udonthani. Obviously, it can be purchased in Bangkok and Chiang Mai, and possibly in other parts of Thailand too.

[BKKSTAN]

Gee BKKSTAN it seems that we are always in agreement...let's just not discuss various coloured shirts. 55555

Your sister-in-law seems to be a real go-getter with an ability to have a good and rich life.

In my above post I meant to write that you probably could not procure the book, 'Toms and Dees' in Udonthani. Obviously, it can be purchased in Bangkok and Chiang Mai, and possibly in other parts of Thailand too.

Now now,don't go over the edge You are more ''assimilated''in Thai culture,than I am or ever will be!!
I just got up early in the morning to watch NFL games,my posts are commercial time ''hiccups''!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Not a bad reason for rising early. I hope your beloved Buffalo Bills do well. You do follow the Bills, don't you?

As for assimilation, you are getting there, and you have a great understanding of the way people in Thailand, including farangs, think, act and react.

[BKKSTAN]

I am not a Bills fan.I root against Owens!I am a 49er fan,as I come from the bay area of California!They play Monday night,so that will be Tuesday morning for me!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Too bad the mighty Cardinals will win that division.

One of the greatest games I saw was many years ago featuring the Detroit Lions and the San Francisco 49ers. I believe John Brodie was the San Francisco quarterback. It might have been a playoff game, or at least the winner would go off to play the Cleveland Browns for the championship. The 'Niners were up by three touchdowns, I think, entering the last quarter, but the Lions came back to win a very thrilling game. As a resident of the Bay area, this might have been one of the more forgettable games in your chequered history.

In those days (late '50s) I liked the Chicago Cardinals and the Detroit Lions.

Are we on topic?!?

[maaka]

yea whats have gridiron got to do with lesbian tomboys..might be a joke coming there..hehehe

[Xircal]

Sin Sod came up in one of the discussions when my GF mentioned that if we were to marry, then I would be able to apply for an Extension of Stay which would alleviate the need to do border hops in order to renew my visa. The figure mentioned was 300K plus another 30K for the wedding party. It seemed reasonable at the time, but after reading this thread and others, my perspective has changed somewhat.

My GF comes from an impoverished background and worked as a bargirl for a while to support her family when her mother became ill. I don't blame her for that because the cost of medical treatment couldn't be covered by her parents meagre income at the time. Even so, 300K seems excessive, particularly in the light of the fact that her parents expect another 10K a month for life after that. And will it stop there even I ask myself? There has been mention of how much they would like a new pickup truck too. It need only cost me 10K a month plus a 100K down payment as has been explained to me. They didn't mention the fact that I'd be paying that figure for the next five years of course.

I read shrink's post @ http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/p ... c2#p171758 and what he mentions there has also given me food for thought. As much as I love my girlfriend, I don't see myself in the role of cash cow for the family somehow and am beginning to get cold feet.

Also, the bottom has dropped out of the Euro and the Baht's upward climb continues unabated in spite of the current political turmoil. Checking exchange rates this morning, I was appalled to discover that my income no longer meets the 40K a month minimum requirement necessary to qualify for a 'marriage visa' even. That figure of 40K would also jump to 50K if we were to have child.

It also worries me that Thai Immigration has a nasty habit of moving the goalposts without prior warning where it concerns income requirements. The fact that they scrapped the option to show 400K in a Thai bank account for two months in favour of a combined income of 40K back in October 2006 is a prime example of that policy.

By the way, if you applied for extension prior to October 2006, then you can continue to show 400K in a Thai bank account as a means of obtaining an extension. In that respect, the current ruling only applies to new applicants.

Is LOS = Land of Smiles turning into LOS = Land of Sobs I ask myself?

[jai yen yen]

This woman you are with is clearly after your money, get out now. There are good girls out there. I have been with my gf for 3 years and have never been pressured for money or gifts. Her family does not ask for anything as well. On top of that she is beautiful, smart, kind and possibly the nicest human being I have ever met. Keep looking. Also when I asked about sin sod her mother said she only wanted her daughter to be happy and cared for. One more thing, most bargirls will never make good wives or girlfriends.

[wiking]

never pay more than the wedding cost - simple
if she is a secondhand with kids you has to take care - ask how much she pay you
but there are these old men who pay a lot for a young girl and this young girls mama don t care if her daughter is happy or not with this old man, she want money. she tell her, you can go out 2 weeks after the wedding and find one more mann
sorry but there are to many stupid farangs here. off course they will ask, thats human

[Xircal]

This woman you are with is clearly after your money, get out now. There are good girls out there. I have been with my gf for 3 years and have never been pressured for money or gifts. Her family does not ask for anything as well. On top of that she is beautiful, smart, kind and possibly the nicest human being I have ever met. Keep looking. Also when I asked about sin sod her mother said she only wanted her daughter to be happy and cared for. One more thing, most bargirls will never make good wives or girlfriends.

It seems like you've found a real gem jai yen yen. I take it she's never been involved in the bargirl scene and that her parents are reasonably well off.

If thats is the case, then I don't think one can make a comparison with a girl who has grown up in a virtual shanty town. I've already been to the 'family home' and it's comprised of a wooden frame with a few sheets of rusty corrugated iron sheets nailed to it. There's no furniture, just wooden planks to sit on, no running water and your veritable squat toilet which also functions as the family bathroom.

never pay more than the wedding cost - simple
if she is a secondhand with kids you has to take care - ask how much she pay you
but there are these old men who pay a lot for a young girl and this young girls mama don t care if her daughter is happy or not with this old man, she want money. she tell her, you can go out 2 weeks after the wedding and find one more mann
sorry but there are to many stupid farangs here. off course they will ask, thats human

You make a very valid point wiking. I think my gf is basically good natured, but seems to be totally dominated by her mother, so much so that any criticism I level at her parents immediately leads to heated arguments between us. This in turn leads to taboo subjects being created in our relationship which can never be discussed unless I happen to feel in the mood for a flaming great row.

Also, her mother has already suggested what you mentioned, namely that if I can't come up with the goods so to speak, then her daughter can go look for another farang in Patong. That doesn't exactly endear me to the woman who my gf wants me to love as if she were my own mother. And yet I can't seem to get across to my gf that she's just being used by her mother for her own personal gain. Her family seems to be totally sacrosanct in that respect and this is the primary reason for the doubts which are creeping into my mind right now.

She doesn't have any kids though, so at least I don't have that burden to contend with as well.

But I would like to find a way to rescue her from this situation she finds herself in. She's a sweet kid and has a great sense of humour and a reasonably good command of English and I don't want to give up on her without a fight somehow.

[luangtom]

There many good responses relative to "sin sod" and some not. My wife and I understood it was up to me as to how much or if there would be sin sod, some 37 years ago. No demands. It was a simple affair in her village near Sawang Daen Din and now we stay there part-time as much as we can, so I guess our understanding seems to have worked out.

My wife gets many questions about "sin sod" from American women in the USA. They ask if it is true that farang men "buy" their Thai wives? My wife asks, "What do you mean 'buy' a Thai wife?" They explain to her what they have read or heard and then she explains sin sod from a Thai or Isaan perspective. She tries to get it across that if it is true love and they foresee a future together for many years, it will be an unspoken agreement to not go overboard and impress the village. Her next speech is directed to them. She asks, "Would you marry a man in the USA if he did not provide you with a diamond-ring?" The overwhelming majority tell her NO. She then asks why this is different than sin sod? They have no real explanation. She then mentions withholding sex for material things in the USA and how is that any different than prostitution. That does not go over very well.

My wife goes on to tell them that sin sod goes to the parents for basically reimbursement for getting their daughter to this point of her life for marriage. She understands that the woman gets the diamond and the brides' parents, in the USA, get the bill for the gathering. Most have no more questions for her and hopefully have a better understanding of Thai culture. So, do whatever you feel is best concerning "sin sod" and supporting wife, family and village.

[rick]

Part of the problem is the social standing of the family and if she is a virgin or not. When you are a virgin and your sisters went for big sin sod, huge loss of face to go for little or nothing. But 300,00 more middling rich village family. And the gold for display. Also, 30,000 does not buy much of a wedding - remember, family is big here. 300 people - well, thats your 30k gone on food alone. So proper village weddings ain't cheap. If i had known how much it was going to cost, i think i would have done a runner when the matter of marriage was first brought up.

But if you are lucky, you might find the girl (probably divorced) who will settle for just 'take care'.

[KHONDAHM]

@Xircal
We feel ya, but trust that most of us have been in your shoes. I've been here over 10 years, 3 as a strikingly handsome, young, and single lady's man living in the bowels of Pattaya and known locally as the Yoda of BGs/TGs and relationship matters. Any TG that has a such a controlling mother is bad news and your relationship is doomed to fail eventually if not immediately. There are plenty of other sweets in the candy store we call Thailand.

Let this Bambi burn in the forest.

[Xircal]

There many good responses relative to "sin sod" and some not. My wife and I understood it was up to me as to how much or if there would be sin sod, some 37 years ago.

Assuming you're 60 years old now, that would make you 23 years old when you decided to tie the knot. Back then, the exchange rate was probably much more favourable than it is now. Couple that with general attitudes towards marriage with a foreigner back in 1973 and I suppose I'm not surprised the question of sin sod didn't crop up. The tourist industry in Thailand was virtually non-existent in the early 70's and therefore Thais weren't exposed to the concept of seemingly wealthy foreigners in the same way they are today. Presumably you were in the military back then and possibly based in Thailand? I'm only thinking of the ongoing Vietnam war at that time. Assuming I'm correct, I don't know to what degree soldiers splashed out on the local hookers.

....withholding sex for material things in the USA and how is that any different than prostitution.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that viewpoint at all. Prostitution is the sale of sex to anybody for money. A girl holding back on losing her virginity to the guy she loves until he ties the knot is not quite the same thing I think.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your input. Thank you for that.

Part of the problem is the social standing of the family and if she is a virgin or not. When you are a virgin and your sisters went for big sin sod, huge loss of face to go for little or nothing. But 300,00 more middling rich village family. And the gold for display. Also, 30,000 does not buy much of a wedding - remember, family is big here. 300 people - well, thats your 30k gone on food alone. So proper village weddings ain't cheap. If i had known how much it was going to cost, i think i would have done a runner when the matter of marriage was first brought up.

But if you are lucky, you might find the girl (probably divorced) who will settle for just 'take care'.

I suppose the biggest problem I have with sin sod is that I find the whole rigmarole somewhat distasteful especially if it's going to be performed by the local village headman laying out each 1,000 Baht note in a circle on a cloth on the floor for the rest of the villagers to gloat over. It's almost obscene.

In some respects, the plummeting value of the Euro is working in my favour right now. I can at least make the excuse now that with the current exchange rate as it stands this morning @ 39.8972 means I can no longer afford to hand over the sum of money her mother is asking for.

@Xircal
Any TG that has a such a controlling mother is bad news and your relationship is doomed to fail eventually if not immediately.

Yes, your point of view serves to illustrate my biggest worry, namely that I find myself living in a foreign country with a divorce on my hands and nowhere to go. I don't have enough cash to apply for a retirement visa and would find myself out on a limb and being forced to leave the country if that were to happen.

[jai yen yen]

Hi Zurcal, Actually my gf comes from a family that is not well off but they are doing o.k. They all work hard growing rice and small jobs here and there. There home is basic but better than some. My gf father died when she was a baby and life was not easy. She started working in a factory when she was 13, never worked in a bar. Just good honest people. I don't discredit everyone who has worked in a bar but requests for large amounts of money are not a good sign and not a good foundation for a relationship. Yes I have found a gem, keep looking, maybe you will find one too.

[rick]

Obviously marriage ia a big step. Also the idea of Sin Sod is foreign to us westerners. That is why you should not rush into anything. You need to understand Thai culture, and try and see it from there point of view. As i said, if i knew how much marriage would cost, it might have frightened me off 2 years ago. But as you grow to love someone, and grow to trust them, know the culture, it is easier to understand. Look upon it as an investment if you want - you are buying in to the family support structure, it is security for the bad times for the family and your wife. Get to know the family a bit, work out if you feel happy with them. If you do, accept the costs. In europe, weddings cost just as much, just different people pay!

As i learn about my family, I have become reconciled with the costs of marriage. Sure, I would rather not spend so much, but in the end you choose; is it worth it? I have made my choice, found the money, and will get married.

Every case is unique, only you can judge. It may not work, but the same applies back in the west. it is working for many in Udon.

[nkstan]

But I would like to find a way to rescue her from this situation she finds herself in. She's a sweet kid and has a great sense of humour and a reasonably good command of English and I don't want to give up on her without a fight somehow.

Absolutely impossible task as she does not want to be ''rescued''!To think so,on your part,shows a lack of understanding what is really happening!You will NEVER replace the family,nor will you ever be respected as an equal with in the family!You are simply the ATM that she might or might not like,but definitely does not have to same feelings towards you as you have towards her.Whatever you do will never be enough and you will always be ''managed'',becaue the bottomline is,''it is all about money'' and elevating the family status!