Families
Re: Families
Egads.....I'm trying to imagine the reaction our 36 year old daughter (back in the US) would get to telling her boyfriend/husband/boss/whoever that she had to check in with Mom before making a major decision in life.
Re: Families
Thank you. Someone at last who sees sense and does not post a facetious reply.
Re: Families
Pete, could I just ask is the situation
(a) that she won't get the family's blessing to go to Oz or
(b) that they are not letting her go,
If b) how can they possibly stop her seeing as she is relativley independent.
Am I missing something here.
This is not a sarcastic post because I am, after all, British.
(Cue Texpat)
(a) that she won't get the family's blessing to go to Oz or
(b) that they are not letting her go,
If b) how can they possibly stop her seeing as she is relativley independent.
Am I missing something here.
This is not a sarcastic post because I am, after all, British.
(Cue Texpat)-
arjay
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 8349
- Joined: October 2, 2005, 12:19 pm
- Location: Gone to get a life, "troll free"
Re: Families
Pete, no one knows your true circumstances better than you, and no one can answer your question better than you.
You came on to this forum as a "Newbie", posed a number of let's say rather provocative questions, and then when people using their own time and at their own expense gave you some suggestions, or possible "food for thought", OK maybe some of it a bit harsh or "real", as life can be, and some a few slightly cynical or tongue-in-cheek observations thrown in, you respond with what one can only describe as an arrogant know it all attitude. And I'm not just referring to this thread!
My first post/comments on this thread were in part intended to alert you to the fact that there are two sides to every coin, and to test whether you had considered the families viewpoint. The way I see it, the solution to your problem is in how you can overcome the families objections, thus if you can determine what those objections really are, then that must surely help with the solution. Your response however was dismissive arrogant and rude.
You rammed your opinions about cheap airlines down the throats of senior members, moderators and Admin on this forum, in again what I can only describe as an arrogant, argumentative and "know it all" manner.
If you know all the answers why bother to ask. A little humility would I am have got sure got you better answers, and would certainly have got you more of them. Currently your responses and attitude are in danger of alienating the very people you are asking to help you and stifling the replies you would have got.
Good Luck
You came on to this forum as a "Newbie", posed a number of let's say rather provocative questions, and then when people using their own time and at their own expense gave you some suggestions, or possible "food for thought", OK maybe some of it a bit harsh or "real", as life can be, and some a few slightly cynical or tongue-in-cheek observations thrown in, you respond with what one can only describe as an arrogant know it all attitude. And I'm not just referring to this thread!
My first post/comments on this thread were in part intended to alert you to the fact that there are two sides to every coin, and to test whether you had considered the families viewpoint. The way I see it, the solution to your problem is in how you can overcome the families objections, thus if you can determine what those objections really are, then that must surely help with the solution. Your response however was dismissive arrogant and rude.
You rammed your opinions about cheap airlines down the throats of senior members, moderators and Admin on this forum, in again what I can only describe as an arrogant, argumentative and "know it all" manner.
If you know all the answers why bother to ask. A little humility would I am have got sure got you better answers, and would certainly have got you more of them. Currently your responses and attitude are in danger of alienating the very people you are asking to help you and stifling the replies you would have got.
Good Luck
Re: Families
Pete
There are decent guys giving you advice here. The best answer to you question would be to marry her and pay sin-sod that will give the mother a similar or better financial status. But what you should be considering is why your g/f doesn't just do what you want. She is 38 and capable to make her own decisions although maybe that is exactly what she is doing..
There are decent guys giving you advice here. The best answer to you question would be to marry her and pay sin-sod that will give the mother a similar or better financial status. But what you should be considering is why your g/f doesn't just do what you want. She is 38 and capable to make her own decisions although maybe that is exactly what she is doing..
Re: Families
Yes in reference to the last post, marry the girl, have done with it, pop down to Bangkok, do the sensible thing,pop over to the Aussie embassy get the visa, go to Australia, once there sort out the matter.
She is after all 38 years old, not stupid nor are you, as Arjay says, you seem to have all the answers, so why ask the questions.
Many of us agonised over a reply to assist you and still your attempt at ridicule is unacceptable. Enjoy your life whatever it may be like whereever you will be, either with your G/F or without, but do not trouble us any more with your comments. You are a grown man, act like one.
She is after all 38 years old, not stupid nor are you, as Arjay says, you seem to have all the answers, so why ask the questions.
Many of us agonised over a reply to assist you and still your attempt at ridicule is unacceptable. Enjoy your life whatever it may be like whereever you will be, either with your G/F or without, but do not trouble us any more with your comments. You are a grown man, act like one.
Re: Families
Even though you might be trolling,I will respond once to this question.
If she gives up her job which ,to you and OZ standards, seems small,she gives up her future pay increases,all gov't perks that you don't see in the pay packet including retirement which will continue her present income and perks(I think,might have the retirement part wrong as far as full pay)!Staying with family,this income is not small,in Thaland,by any means!
She moves to OZ to be with you and puts her future completely in your hands,leaving her family behind!
If i was her,I would not do it!I would if I had been in the live together relationship long enough to feel you were stable ,capable and secure enough,plus I would want to have insurance against your possible incapabilities,which would mean humungous sin sod to compensate me for my sacrifice!
Although,I agree that the son would get a better education in OZ,it might not be the ''all everything'' in his life.he might be happier with friends and relatives in Thailand!
Since you claim stability , she has stability and security and you plan on moving here in 5 years,I would suggest that you both stay where you are for the time being and arrange you scheduled vacations and time off to visit each other as much as possible!
If she gives up her job which ,to you and OZ standards, seems small,she gives up her future pay increases,all gov't perks that you don't see in the pay packet including retirement which will continue her present income and perks(I think,might have the retirement part wrong as far as full pay)!Staying with family,this income is not small,in Thaland,by any means!
She moves to OZ to be with you and puts her future completely in your hands,leaving her family behind!
If i was her,I would not do it!I would if I had been in the live together relationship long enough to feel you were stable ,capable and secure enough,plus I would want to have insurance against your possible incapabilities,which would mean humungous sin sod to compensate me for my sacrifice!
Although,I agree that the son would get a better education in OZ,it might not be the ''all everything'' in his life.he might be happier with friends and relatives in Thailand!
Since you claim stability , she has stability and security and you plan on moving here in 5 years,I would suggest that you both stay where you are for the time being and arrange you scheduled vacations and time off to visit each other as much as possible!
Re: Families
In my experience when someone seeks the counsel of others, they don't really want to know what 'YOU" think . They merely want confirmation of their thoughts . 
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .
Re: Families
Newbie I may be, idiot I am not.arjay wrote:Pete, no one knows your true circumstances better than you, and no one can answer your question better than you.
You came on to this forum as a "Newbie", posed a number of let's say rather provocative questions, and then when people using their own time and at their own expense gave you some suggestions, or possible "food for thought", OK maybe some of it a bit harsh or "real", as life can be, and some a few slightly cynical or tongue-in-cheek observations thrown in, you respond with what one can only describe as an arrogant know it all attitude. And I'm not just referring to this thread!
My first post/comments on this thread were in part intended to alert you to the fact that there are two sides to every coin, and to test whether you had considered the families viewpoint. The way I see it, the solution to your problem is in how you can overcome the families objections, thus if you can determine what those objections really are, then that must surely help with the solution. Your response however was dismissive arrogant and rude.
You rammed your opinions about cheap airlines down the throats of senior members, moderators and Admin on this forum, in again what I can only describe as an arrogant, argumentative and "know it all" manner.
If you know all the answers why bother to ask. A little humility would I am have got sure got you better answers, and would certainly have got you more of them. Currently your responses and attitude are in danger of alienating the very people you are asking to help you and stifling the replies you would have got.
Good Luck
Let me take your comments, firstly the easy ones, like the cheap airlines. Where did I ram my opinions down members' throats? I stated a number of facts, including that budget airlines are cheaper, and in my experience had not let me down. I provided evidence of the price of fares and clearly stated that booking in advance is the way to go to save thousands of baht. There was no ramming anything, merely challenging misconceptions. Funny how both AA and Tiger are expanding their operations, some idiots must believe in their service.
It may surprise you to know that I have been around a bit and am fairly well versed in decision making. I don't ask open ended questions and expect an essay as a reply. When I ask questions it is because I have done my research, formulated my options and considered what bits of information I am missing. If my attitude seems arrogant and know all, it's because before I put finger to keyboard I usually do know most things about the question I am going to pose. I apologise if I sound arrogant, but I am a straight talker and a realist, and certainally not stupid.
As yet, concerning this thread, I have not received one reply that actually addresses the issue I raised. Maybe I expected too much, I don't know, but responses like 'marry her and take her to Oz' show the complete lack of understanding by the respondent. I have stated on at least 2 occasions that she is willing to go, it is her family (mother and brother) who oppose the idea. I can do anything I want within the confines of the law. I am a big boy and know what I am doing, but 'snatching' her from her family is going to cause problems. That is why I was asking about families, and persuasion. I don't give a FF what they believe, or if the Thai health system gives out free bypass surgery tickets, or they look after their old by providing them with wheelchairs. It isn't about the perceived benefits of her remaining in Thailand, it's about changing the attitude of her family that she is a commodity.
Now seeing as I am not getting anywhere fast in this thread, and I created it, I would be obliged if you would close it.
Thanks
Pete
-
Laan Yaa Mo
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 9787
- Joined: February 7, 2007, 9:12 am
- Location: ขอนแก่น
Re: Families
It is fairly obvious why the mother of the girl does not want her daughter to be with this guy in Australia. He exudes arrogance and hostility. She is thinking of the welfare of her daughter, and understands him quite well.
As for advice, change your attitude to people, and you may find that the mother may even come to like you, but it is going to take a lot of work on your part judging by your posts.
As for advice, change your attitude to people, and you may find that the mother may even come to like you, but it is going to take a lot of work on your part judging by your posts.
Re: Families
(a) above. In reality they can do nothing to stop her but my understanding of the bond (and expectations) within Thai families is that it is a lot stronger than we in the west are used to and I am reluctant to break that bond if the family is otherwise decent (which it is).patriot wrote:Pete, could I just ask is the situation
(a) that she won't get the family's blessing to go to Oz or
(b) that they are not letting her go,
If b) how can they possibly stop her seeing as she is relativley independent.
Am I missing something here.
This is not a sarcastic post because I am, after all, British.
Re: Families
Nice piece of online psychoanalysis. You have never met me, never will meet me, and haven't a clue what you are talking about. FYI, her mother likes me a lot, but why let the truth get in the way of another sarcastic and bombastic reply?Tilokarat wrote:It is fairly obvious why the mother of the girl does not want her daughter to be with this guy in Australia. He exudes arrogance and hostility. She is thinking of the welfare of her daughter, and understands him quite well.
As for advice, change your attitude to people, and you may find that the mother may even come to like you, but it is going to take a lot of work on your part judging by your posts.
-
Laan Yaa Mo
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 9787
- Joined: February 7, 2007, 9:12 am
- Location: ขอนแก่น
Re: Families
Well, you never know, stranger things have happened. I mean about the meeting part.
-
Eazy-Going
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 101
- Joined: March 15, 2010, 11:46 am
- Location: UTH
Re: Families
In answer to your initial question Pete, I don't think you can, (get the family to change their mindset etc).
You have probably gathered by now that the Thais are very traditional, stubborn, stuck in their ways, family orientated etc, and the family matriarch is the head honcho so invariably what she says goes. Unless your g/f is prepared to go against her mothers wishes and virtually cause a massive rift in the family, I think you're fighting a losing battle here....well in the short term anyway...things may change if you can prove your worth over time and as the Mother gains more confidence and trust in you, and of course you can provide the lost income the daughter generated for the family. Yes she is a commodity, another form of providing income, you will have to get used to this idea because no matter were the g/f goes with you, if she is a good daughter she will always endeavour to send as much money to the Mother as she, (or rather you), can afford. It is a good system, it has worked in Thailand for many hundreds of years, I don't think you will be able to change it but good luck in your quest.
You have probably gathered by now that the Thais are very traditional, stubborn, stuck in their ways, family orientated etc, and the family matriarch is the head honcho so invariably what she says goes. Unless your g/f is prepared to go against her mothers wishes and virtually cause a massive rift in the family, I think you're fighting a losing battle here....well in the short term anyway...things may change if you can prove your worth over time and as the Mother gains more confidence and trust in you, and of course you can provide the lost income the daughter generated for the family. Yes she is a commodity, another form of providing income, you will have to get used to this idea because no matter were the g/f goes with you, if she is a good daughter she will always endeavour to send as much money to the Mother as she, (or rather you), can afford. It is a good system, it has worked in Thailand for many hundreds of years, I don't think you will be able to change it but good luck in your quest.
Re: Families
Well, most relevant points made already. But to sum up from my Point of view:-
a) family bonds are strong
b) While in Thailand, the family KNOW she is a source of support.
c) Once out of the country, that link is reduced or even broken.
Some girls who leave Thailand hate it and go home within months - she would then be dependent on your continued support - which the Thai family would (using Thai standards) not be able to rely on.
Some girls take to their new homes well - too well. But the Hi-so lifestyle they desire soaks up all the income and money home may dry up.
Not saying any of this applies to you, but might be it crosses the families minds.
In my own case, i know my mother-in-law fears i will not come back each time i return to UK, even if i have just invested a load into the family 3 weeks before!
The family are maybe just taking the safe, reliable option. in which case, jsut need to arrive at a suitable figure. Or maybe, it is just they cannot bear to see her leave.
a) family bonds are strong
b) While in Thailand, the family KNOW she is a source of support.
c) Once out of the country, that link is reduced or even broken.
Some girls who leave Thailand hate it and go home within months - she would then be dependent on your continued support - which the Thai family would (using Thai standards) not be able to rely on.
Some girls take to their new homes well - too well. But the Hi-so lifestyle they desire soaks up all the income and money home may dry up.
Not saying any of this applies to you, but might be it crosses the families minds.
In my own case, i know my mother-in-law fears i will not come back each time i return to UK, even if i have just invested a load into the family 3 weeks before!
The family are maybe just taking the safe, reliable option. in which case, jsut need to arrive at a suitable figure. Or maybe, it is just they cannot bear to see her leave.
Re: Families
Thank you Eazy Going and Rick for your sensible and considered replies.
Re: Families
Pete, I think you forget a few things re your gf.
Having a good government job (army major is such one) has very important advantages.
Firstly there is a continuation of the job ( you can't be sacked) and of the money involved. In contradiction of your opinion 20K baht is quite some money for a Thai and enough to feed a whole family if necessary. In the same advantage package is the guarantee to have a military pension once your gf is leaving the army for age reasons.
Secondly anyone working for the government can have bank loans without any problem, eg financing a car, buying a house or land. This is very important for Thais as it makes them "higher" in their society.
Now look what she will lose when coming to you:
No secure job
No secure income
No independency (because of job)
No high position in society
No family around
No friends around
No ability to speak the language properly
No Thai culture
Just to name what comes into my mind.
Perhaps you can see this part of the "deal" and not only your own benevolent (money) part. Money cannot buy all that is needed for a happy life and your gf has a happy life for a Thai. Your point that you earn in a week what she earns in a month is BS as you pay much more to live in Oz than she does to live in LOS!
Family ties are very very strong in Thailand (my marriage broke up partly because of that) and any farang coming to take a daughter away out of the country has a hard time.
Now you say where is the solution?
I would advise to sit down with the family and talk in a friendly and constructive way (you are too negative now). Understand their concerns, NOT talk about money as their daughter/sister is more important to them. Try to make the future visible and understandable for them. Don't forget your gf has nothing left if she returns without you!
I wish you the wisdom to find the right words and solutions.
Cheers
Joe
Having a good government job (army major is such one) has very important advantages.
Firstly there is a continuation of the job ( you can't be sacked) and of the money involved. In contradiction of your opinion 20K baht is quite some money for a Thai and enough to feed a whole family if necessary. In the same advantage package is the guarantee to have a military pension once your gf is leaving the army for age reasons.
Secondly anyone working for the government can have bank loans without any problem, eg financing a car, buying a house or land. This is very important for Thais as it makes them "higher" in their society.
Now look what she will lose when coming to you:
No secure job
No secure income
No independency (because of job)
No high position in society
No family around
No friends around
No ability to speak the language properly
No Thai culture
Just to name what comes into my mind.
Perhaps you can see this part of the "deal" and not only your own benevolent (money) part. Money cannot buy all that is needed for a happy life and your gf has a happy life for a Thai. Your point that you earn in a week what she earns in a month is BS as you pay much more to live in Oz than she does to live in LOS!
Family ties are very very strong in Thailand (my marriage broke up partly because of that) and any farang coming to take a daughter away out of the country has a hard time.
Now you say where is the solution?
I would advise to sit down with the family and talk in a friendly and constructive way (you are too negative now). Understand their concerns, NOT talk about money as their daughter/sister is more important to them. Try to make the future visible and understandable for them. Don't forget your gf has nothing left if she returns without you!
I wish you the wisdom to find the right words and solutions.
Cheers
Joe
Re: Families
Thanks Joe
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned about her debt as a result of her ex husband. Unfortunately because of this she is not able to secure a loan. I have sorted out using solicitors another loan which she was liable for having gone guarantor for her ex (or husband at the time), and the thing is in reality she could never, ever pay the loan out. She was therefore technically in debt/owing the bank 10 million B. Like I said, I have sorted things out and in 4 years she may be able to get a credit rating again. Having said that, in all honesty she couldn't afford any more loans.
It is not BS about the money. Things in Oz are not 4 times the price as Thailand, apart from houses. In addition there is my (and would be hers) 19 day working month, 35 days leave a year, 15 paid sick days a year which accumulate, job security, paid overtime at double time, employer contributed superannuation of 9% of your wage, salary sacrafice to save on tax, a clean, safe and multicultural environment, reliable infrastructure, transparent processes, no visa run...I could go on.
There is quite a sizable Thai population where I live and a Thai society, Thai restaurants and Thai food stalls. She doesn't socialise much at home, working late and having a son to take care of, so a huge gathering of friends is not her greatest need. Her English is good, and will improve while living here, sufficiently to work as a nurse, with the associated money and conditions mentioned above.
Can I once again point out that she doesn't have the problem coming here, it's her mum and brother. She can see the advantages, not least to her child's education, and our original plan was to be 20 years until the boy was sorted out, but I revised my plan to a 5 year plan to see if that would win approval.
I realise I will have to negotiate with the family and that the family is number one. Last night I had a brain storm...when she comes across here for a holiday to see Oz, bring mum with her. Sometimes seeing the grass can be greener for everyone involved including her grandson, can be the catalyst for change. I have to be honest, I can not think of any better place in the world for a kid to grow up than in Oz, and that will become apparent to all visitors. My plan broke don because they do not trust 'uncle' (who isn't part of the family), to steal things from the house and sell them when they are away. Of course I told her the options, like warning 'uncle' to do the right thing or be out on his ear, but it seems the level of mistrust is that high!
It looks like I may have a long and hard time persuading mum and brother that her living with me is the best all round.
Thanks for your best wishes.
Cheers
Pete
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned about her debt as a result of her ex husband. Unfortunately because of this she is not able to secure a loan. I have sorted out using solicitors another loan which she was liable for having gone guarantor for her ex (or husband at the time), and the thing is in reality she could never, ever pay the loan out. She was therefore technically in debt/owing the bank 10 million B. Like I said, I have sorted things out and in 4 years she may be able to get a credit rating again. Having said that, in all honesty she couldn't afford any more loans.
It is not BS about the money. Things in Oz are not 4 times the price as Thailand, apart from houses. In addition there is my (and would be hers) 19 day working month, 35 days leave a year, 15 paid sick days a year which accumulate, job security, paid overtime at double time, employer contributed superannuation of 9% of your wage, salary sacrafice to save on tax, a clean, safe and multicultural environment, reliable infrastructure, transparent processes, no visa run...I could go on.
There is quite a sizable Thai population where I live and a Thai society, Thai restaurants and Thai food stalls. She doesn't socialise much at home, working late and having a son to take care of, so a huge gathering of friends is not her greatest need. Her English is good, and will improve while living here, sufficiently to work as a nurse, with the associated money and conditions mentioned above.
Can I once again point out that she doesn't have the problem coming here, it's her mum and brother. She can see the advantages, not least to her child's education, and our original plan was to be 20 years until the boy was sorted out, but I revised my plan to a 5 year plan to see if that would win approval.
I realise I will have to negotiate with the family and that the family is number one. Last night I had a brain storm...when she comes across here for a holiday to see Oz, bring mum with her. Sometimes seeing the grass can be greener for everyone involved including her grandson, can be the catalyst for change. I have to be honest, I can not think of any better place in the world for a kid to grow up than in Oz, and that will become apparent to all visitors. My plan broke don because they do not trust 'uncle' (who isn't part of the family), to steal things from the house and sell them when they are away. Of course I told her the options, like warning 'uncle' to do the right thing or be out on his ear, but it seems the level of mistrust is that high!
It looks like I may have a long and hard time persuading mum and brother that her living with me is the best all round.
Thanks for your best wishes.
Cheers
Pete
Re: Families
I would imagine the family looks at the 38-year-old Army major nurse as their goose who will continue to lay golden eggs through good times or bad, for better or worse -- unless she moves off to Oz with some paleface.
She is insurance to them -- especially mother. And Thai children are beholden to their parents -- owe their parents.
If she moves away -- out of sight, out of mind ...
Until you can convince her that life in Oz would be better than the life she has known for 38 years in Thailand, it'll be rough sledding. How many years till you're ready to hang up the stethoscope?
Getting visas for the whole family to visit might prove an enormous hurdle.
Are you currently subsidizing her salary?
She is insurance to them -- especially mother. And Thai children are beholden to their parents -- owe their parents.
If she moves away -- out of sight, out of mind ...
Until you can convince her that life in Oz would be better than the life she has known for 38 years in Thailand, it'll be rough sledding. How many years till you're ready to hang up the stethoscope?
Getting visas for the whole family to visit might prove an enormous hurdle.
Are you currently subsidizing her salary?
Re: Families
Is it really that easy to get a Thai girlfriend and her child a visa / residency / work permit etc for OZ ?
It would be very difficult for her to get a visa for her and her child to live in the UK considering you are not married, its not your child and she cannot support herself or child. I have to jump through hoops including showing financial statements proving I can support my Thai wife and son when taking them for holidays in the UK for just a couple of weeks.
OT.............
It would be very difficult for her to get a visa for her and her child to live in the UK considering you are not married, its not your child and she cannot support herself or child. I have to jump through hoops including showing financial statements proving I can support my Thai wife and son when taking them for holidays in the UK for just a couple of weeks.
OT.............