Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

[cookie]

don't know about feeling ashamed,
but it seems that Iraqi citizens are far from happy

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... fpo-direct

a snapshot of today's Iraq is grim, and perceptions of an American retreat have the Iraqi streets rippling with anger and incredulity.

answers from a bagdad schoolteacher:

"What have the Americans accomplished for this country that they can now decide to just leave?" asks Hasnaa Ali, 42, a Baghdad schoolteacher who is heading home with a bag of groceries to prepare her family's iftar meal — the daily breaking of the fast during the holy month of Ramadan. "We don't have clean water or electricity. Prices for everything are very high. There is no security, no jobs, no housing." She adds, "If their goal in coming here was to grant us freedom and democracy, how can they leave us when we are sunk in blood and trash? How can they hand Iraq over to our Iraqi politicians? Does the American President think we will be safe with such politicians? I don't think he understands them as well as we do."

Meanwhile, a new government has yet to form more than six months after the inconclusive U.S.-backed national elections. So far, the glacial pace of negotiations to build a working coalition has been an exercise in partisan squabbling, exposing Iraq's still deep sectarian rifts and the decline of Washington's political leverage

a bagdad trash collector:

As a Baghdad trash collector, Ali Nasar, 26, has a unique perspective on a view held by many Iraqis. "When the occupation forces came to Iraq, it was good they got rid of Saddam [Hussein], but in fact everything got worse: security, electricity, water and garbage — which is good for me. But when they leave, nothing will be improved or return to the way it was," says Nasar. "No matter if the Americans are here or not, Iraq is a ruined country."

[Galee]

A ruined Iraq is no longer a military threat. Food for thought.

[firsttimebangkok]

A ruined Iraq at the expense of a ruined US economy..hmmmm smart move guys..

[JimboPSM]

Extract from the transcript of the evidence given on 20th July 2010 to the “Iraq Enquiry” by Baroness Manningham-Buller DCB, Deputy Director General, Security Service until 2002 and Director General, Security Service, 2002 to 2007 (more commonly known as “M”).

SIR LAWRENCE FREEDMAN:

• ...... Can I just ask one final question, which is related to the things that Iraqis might have done, and this refers to the proposition that Saddam's regime were in some way responsible for providing support, potential support to Al-Qaeda, and even might have been involved in 9/11.
  
  Did you give any credence to these sorts of assessments?

BARONESS MANNINGHAM-BULLER:

• No. I think you have material suggesting that there had been intelligence on occasional contact in the past but I think -- I wrote this down when I was preparing for today -- there was no credible intelligence to suggest that connection and that was the judgment, I might say, of the CIA.
  
  It was not a judgment that found favour with some parts of the American machine, as you have also heard evidence on, which is why Donald Rumsfeld started an intelligence unit in the Pentagon to seek an alternative judgment.
  
  But there were tiny scraps suggesting contact, usually when Saddam Hussein felt under threat, and the danger was that those tiny scraps of intelligence were given an importance and weight by some which they did not bear.
  
  So to my mind Iraq, Saddam Hussein, had nothing to do with 9/11 and I have never seen anything to make me change my mind.

For both the full transcript and context of the above extract:

• http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/media/483 ... buller.pdf

Additionally, the whole of the oral evidence by “M” can be viewed here:

• http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk/transcrip ... 00720.aspx

[nkstan]

I think Iraq was a ''ruined'' country under saddam,so what is different?There is a power shift,the majority will rule instead of a dictating minority that had to instill extreme intense fear in order to rule!

The failing eonomy and the economies of most the World was caused by the bubble in housing and the derivatives marketed as a result.Policies set forth by the gov't liberals the wanted to allow people to own homes that could not afford them as political policy to expand their voting base!

[Galee]

I think Iraq was a ''ruined'' country under saddam,so what is different?

No longer a military threat. Especially to Israel.

[Texpat]

I think Iraq was a ''ruined'' country under saddam,so what is different?There is a power shift,the majority will rule instead of a dictating minority that had to instill extreme intense fear in order to rule!

The failing eonomy and the economies of most the World was caused by the bubble in housing and the derivatives marketed as a result.Policies set forth by the gov't liberals the wanted to allow people to own homes that could not afford them as political policy to expand their voting base!

How Bawney Fwank continues to live with himself is beyond me.

Iraq is better off without Saddam. Short memories abound in Udon Map. I attribute that to the average age.

[nkstan]

I think Iraq was a ''ruined'' country under saddam,so what is different?

No longer a military threat. Especially to Israel.

=D> O to S.A,Kuwait ,the region as a whole and the Kurds and nonsense Muslims of Iraq itself,not to mention Iran!Did we spend alot of money and resources?Of course,we are the biggest givers of ''foreign aid'' in the World,by far!

War is very destrucive,in order for the Iraqi people to get out from under Saddam by themselves(almost an impossibilty w/o foreign assistance),the country would probably have been worse off than its present condition.The fact the no WMD's exist there is a great relief to know in the Wests need to eliminate sources for Islamic extremists!

Now we can focus on Iran and N.Korea

[old-timer]

Now we can focus on Iran and N.Korea

Appauling thing to say Stan. Focus on America and the American people before trying to rule the world.

OT...........

[jackspratt]

Unfortunately, in order to save the patient, we are going to have to kill it.

Now, where is the next place to cavalry can ride in and wreak more destruction and misery?

Oh! - you will have to wait for President Palin before that can happen.

[Texpat]

Spratt, you know darn well if the US did nothing, you would be wheezing about that, too.

Why not just admit the real burr under your saddle is not what the US does or doesn't do - rather they don't ask for your permission first.

[jackspratt]

Pat, the real burr under my saddle is countries that assume the right to invade others, wreak havoc while they are there, withdraw and then pretend they have done it in the name of "WMDs", "democracy", "regime change" or whatever. The US is not alone in this, but it certainly has way more form than any other country which professes to support western democratic values.

Invariably followed up by their fanboys who seem to be unable to distinguish between what is reasonable acceptable international behaviour, and what is just hubristic bullying.

[Texpat]

It's called superpower prerogative.
Ain't fair is it?
And you'll only get older and madder if you sit around waiting for America to consult you. I wouldn't wait by the phone.

[jackspratt]

Certainly ain't fair when someone retaliates, is it?

As mad and old as he is, I doubt Osama is waiting by his phone. Perhaps he doesn't recognise "superpower prerogative" (aka hubristic bullying).

[Texpat]

What does Bin Laden have to do with Iraq? (see thread title)
Terrorists have been around forever. That some might target the world's sole superpower is hardly a surprise.
A lot of people are irritated that America is as strong as it is.

meh~

[DermotC]

There is a book called 'Imperial Hubris' written by an ex cia guy. The author is called 'Unknown' A good read. Most of it deals with Afganistan however and not Iraq although Iraq is mentioned.

Inanswer to Bin Laden and what does he have to do with Iraq, from someone who has been on the ground in Iraq, he is help up as an example to to the insurgents and from what i could see that was about it.

[nkstan]

Pat, the real burr under my saddle is countries that assume the right to invade others, wreak havoc while they are there, withdraw and then pretend they have done it in the name of "WMDs", "democracy", "regime change" or whatever. The US is not alone in this, but it certainly has way more form than any other country which professes to support western democratic values.

Invariably followed up by their fanboys who seem to be unable to distinguish between what is reasonable acceptable international behaviour, and what is just hubristic bullying.

You mean live up to International standard acceptable desires'',don't you??Please give me the example of ''reasonable International behavior''that other Superpowers in history have adhered to and which Superpower in the future you would prefer over the USA!!Russia,China,India or maybe the United Islamic nation??

[old-timer]

which Superpower in the future you would prefer over the USA!

Ibiza, you can get absolutley nutted and e'd up for about 20 euros - things don't get better than that.

OT...........

[jackspratt]

Pat, the real burr under my saddle is countries that assume the right to invade others, wreak havoc while they are there, withdraw and then pretend they have done it in the name of "WMDs", "democracy", "regime change" or whatever. The US is not alone in this, but it certainly has way more form than any other country which professes to support western democratic values.

Invariably followed up by their fanboys who seem to be unable to distinguish between what is reasonable acceptable international behaviour, and what is just hubristic bullying.

You mean live up to International standard acceptable desires'',don't you??Please give me the example of ''reasonable International behavior''that other Superpowers in history have adhered to and which Superpower in the future you would prefer over the USA!!Russia,China,India or maybe the United Islamic nation??

No, I meant what I said - which is generally the case in my posts (unless there is a smiley ).

I didn't use the word "superpower" - I was talking about any/all countries.

As for my preferences for the future - none of them, including the hypothetical ones.

[nkstan]

''but it certainly has way more form than any other country which professes to support western democratic values''
JS,what are you referring to saying ''more form''?