Wikileaks

[BobHelm]

According to the BBC these are the 4 charges he faces...

* Used his body weight to hold down Miss A in a sexual manner.
* Had unprotected sex with Miss A when she had insisted on him using a condom.
* Molested Miss A "in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity".
* Had unprotected sex with Miss W while she was asleep.

If true, then why was he not charged with the far more serious crime of Rape?
I suspect that is because that both women admitted (or would admit in court) that the sex was consensual.
The Swedish courts should be deeply embarrassed that they agreed to prosecute this case.
The Swedish police should be charged with time wasting in creating a European wide arrest warrant for this.
Sweden has always been held up as the shining light of how democratic socialism can work at its best. After this it will be viewed in a very different light I feel..

[jackspratt]

And the good news:

WikiLeaks to continue operating despite arrest

WikiLeaks says it will keep operating as normal after the arrest of its founder, Julian Assange, in Britain.

Assange is in jail after a London court refused him bail overnight pending a hearing to extradite him to Sweden to face sexual assault charges.

"WikiLeaks is operational. We are continuing on the same track as laid out before," said Kristinn Hrafnsson, spokesman for the group.

"Any development with regards to Julian Assange will not change the plans we have with regards to the releases today and in the coming days."

Mr Hrafnsson said the operation would be run by a group of people from London and other locations.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ion=justin

[Khun Paul]

Ok so Governments have been caught with their trousers down as it were, and truth hurts, BUT what would you all think, IF due to these wonderful leaks a major conflagration occurred involving many nations which resulted in millions of people dying due to an expose that one country thought another one should do something, if you understand the 1st WW started on an assassination, the 2nd WW started due to delusions of grandeur, humankind is quite capable of starting the 3rd WW over a stupid aside which upsets someone.

So although YES it is good to hear about the stupid remarks made some career ( I use the term loosely here ) diplomats speaking about other countries, and yes we all understand that these comments were in some cases personal views which did not reflect the countries standpoint , but it has caused embarrassment and so far we are lucky that no-one has been very upset, but WATCH THIS SPACE.

[jackspratt]

The major hotspots in the world were all there well before the wikileaks Cablegate exposures started.

Perhaps if a few cables had been leaked from late 2000 onwards, a major war and many, many unnecessary deaths could have been averted in Iraq. =D> =D> =D>

[21again]

According to the BBC these are the 4 charges he faces...

* Used his body weight to hold down Miss A in a sexual manner.
* Had unprotected sex with Miss A when she had insisted on him using a condom.
* Molested Miss A "in a way designed to violate her sexual integrity".
* Had unprotected sex with Miss W while she was asleep.

If true, then why was he not charged with the far more serious crime of Rape?
I suspect that is because that both women admitted (or would admit in court) that the sex was consensual.
The Swedish courts should be deeply embarrassed that they agreed to prosecute this case.
The Swedish police should be charged with time wasting in creating a European wide arrest warrant for this.
Sweden has always been held up as the shining light of how democratic socialism can work at its best. After this it will be viewed in a very different light I feel..

:-& CONSENSUAL

[JimboPSM]

The major hotspots in the world were all there well before the wikileaks Cablegate exposures started.

Perhaps if a few cables had been leaked from late 2000 onwards, a major war and many, many unnecessary deaths could have been averted in Iraq. =D> =D> =D>

The evidence given (so far) to the Iraq enquiry in the UK certainly indicates that the intelligence community had no evidence of any WMD or of any plausible threat from Iraq to the UK prior to the Iraq war.

If that intelligence had been leaked, the UK Parliament would not (in my opinion) have supported an invasion of Iraq, at least not for the reasons it was fed at the time – instead Parliament received the seriously flawed and “sexed up” September Dossier from Tony Blair with the intelligence assessments removed and the rest is (a sad) history.

While I find the leaking of security information to be distasteful, dangerous and a breach of trust, the wilful misleading of the public (as in the case of the Iraq war) has shown, regrettably, some justification for the leaks.

[hangsaboot]

To say the charges are 'flimsy' is putting it mildly. Hopefully a judge somewhere will have the inclination to throw them in the bin where they belong.. [quote ]

MR. JA. is the one going in the sin bin , sure.
and probably more charges will follow , from somewhere .
only fight fights you have a far chance of winning .
not against the establishment .

[Aardvark]

I have to Congratulate his Legal Team on this one. First they get him to Surrender himself to the Police (a death in Custody is a no no) so he is safe.Then they Demand all Evidence be Submitted to the British Court. Then they state that should the Extradition fail, no other Country has the right to Apply for Extradition (USA) He is a Free Man in Britain =D> Shame his Country of Birth has shown him no such Consideration but after my dealings with Australian Authorities I'm not surprised :-"

[jackspratt]

Indeed Aa.

What disappoints me the most about the current episode is how much Australian governments - of whichever political persuasion - are in the thrall and grasp of the USA.

The last Australian politician to show any balls - for all his faults - was Gough Whitlam. =D>

[sissor-mouth]

Leaking embarassing information like the fact that an American gunship killed innocent Iraqi Civilians including some small children is something thats hard to defend by as evidenced by most of the responses here, people dont have a problem defending it which is just sad. WikiLeaks does a great job for society and for a free and open democracy. The best dis-infectant is sun shine. The only way to get rid of the corruption and the abuse is to bring it into the light. I appluad WikiLeaks for all their efforts.

SISSOR MOUTH XX

[KHONDAHM]

What disappoints me the most about the current episode is how much Australian governments - of whichever political persuasion - are in the thrall and grasp of the USA.

Appearances are deceiving. True power is influence vis-a-vis controlling the flow of information. Everything else is just a tool to wield influence. Murdoch controls Australia and the USA through his media empire's tentacles. Look what Fox has done to American opinion...it's totally screwed up.

[parrot]

"BUT what would you all think, IF due to these wonderful leaks a major conflagration occurred involving many nations which resulted in millions of people dying due to an expose that one country thought another one should do something, if you understand the 1st WW started on an assassination, the 2nd WW started due to delusions of grandeur, humankind is quite capable of starting the 3rd WW over a stupid aside which upsets someone."

Well, let's put it another way. What would you think, IF due to these wonderful (your words) leaks a major conflagration such as Iraq didn't occur. Imagine if the American people weren't double crossed about WMDs.

I for one am still not sure what to make of wikileaks. If American troops are bombing Cambodia but the American government is denying that we're in that country, then I say, good for wikileaks. If the American government says there are WMDs in a country but a force like wikileaks says there aren't, then I say, good for wikileaks. If the government says we're training Pakistani troops and not engaging in combat in Pakistan but we are, then wikileaks is doing me a service. If government officials in private are saying we're fighting a losing battle in Afghanistan but are telling the public that we're winning, then I'm in favor of wikileaks.

On the other hand, I'm afraid we're beginning to see the full power of the internet......not just the positive side, but the negative as well. Disabling Iran's centrifuges with a virus is good news indeed, but put the shoe on the other foot and we'd be screaming bloody murder (wait until the day you try to use an ATM and they're all disabled, or your bank info is zeroed out, or complete access to the internet is denied or the airline industry is grounded because of hokey-pokey with the air traffic control system). I'd like to think it won't happen, but I'm afraid it's going to be the next big thing in warfare.

Whether Julian Assange raped a girl or not has nothing to do with wikileaks, just like Tiger Woods' affairs had nothing to do with golf nor Michael Vicks' dog fighting with football.

Many people continue to think of Daniel Ellsberg as a traitor for releasing the Pentagon Papers. No doubt those same folks will view Assange in the same way. Khun Paul's comment: "I personally feel that Julian whatever should be exterminated." reminds me of Gordon Liddy mentality of 'totally incapacitating' Ellsberg.

Rape charges aside, my bet's on Assange following in the historical footsteps of Ellsberg. And yet, I'm not sure what Assange is doing is righteous.

[Khun Paul]

Putting it another way, what if, is the best question one can ask, I mean has the disclosure changed anything apart from some peoples perception.....short answer NO, will it change anything much ...short answer NO, will further asides or inconsequential comments made by politicians become available as the years go on....short answer NO

So although we are learning that Governments LIE....we all knew that anyway....and that Governments will bend the truth to suit their own policies, and that, we the people tend in the main to believe our Governments no matter how unpalatable the decisions may be. Then these disclosures have now shown Goverments what can be disclosed and I bet any amount of money that the opportunity for more leaks after the current batch has been and gone will be even harder to get and person so doing so is liable to be locked up for the rest of their natural.
So we have the pleasure now of seeing diplomats and some countries squirm but after this there will be no more and we WILL be back where we started. Having to believe something even oif we are being told a lie, because there is no way we will ever find out the truth.
Again the leaks are good stuff but now the hole is plugged. So let me ask IS THAT A GOOD THING...short answer NO.

[jackspratt]

So if what you say is the case KP, why are you calling for Assange's 'extermination'?

After all, no real damage has been done.

[parrot]

If our government were to lie about planting the centrifuge worm, I'd have no problem with that lie. Spiking Kim Jong-il's tea with grape koolaid and then saying he died of natural causes.......no problem with that either. But are we being bamboozled about what's going on in Afghanistan or Pakistan while putting our troops in harms' way? That's a different matter all together.

[Galee]

Latest leaks suggest Burma is building nuclear sites with the help of North Korea.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... ar-weapons

Article also mentions that enriched uranium would have been offered to Thailand if USA did not purchase it.

[parrot]

Without condoning or condemning the release of cables by wikileaks, there's an interesting phenomenon taking place. It's sort of like cyberwarfare without a central government or its soldiers directing the war.
For example, after paypal, Amazon, VISA and Mastercard dropped any support to wikileaks, legions of anonymous wikihacks attacked those sights. When Sarah Palin called Assange an anti-American operative with blood on his hands, her website, SarahPACcom, was promptly attacked and shut down and her credit card account was hacked. Will these attacks serve as a deterrent to other firms that have been considering dropping WikiLeaks? It's too early to tell, but I'd guess any big-name company considering taking action is also considering the possible counter attacks and implications by the wikihacks. WikiLeaks is heavily dependent on Twitter and Facebook as their primary channels for external communications......yet neither have taken any action against wikileaks. I wonder whether they consider the counterattack implications too severe. If so, that in itself says something about this new generation of warfare.
The good news is TOT/UBC are still pumping out the news, my bank accounts are safe, and the 152 friends waiting for me to open a facebook account will have to wait another day. I wonder what tomorrow will bring?

[BobHelm]

I am not too sure about the wikihacks attacks parrot.
I think that the companies concerned have as much right to say that they do not want to do business with wikileaks as they have of publishing the documents in the first place.
The denial of either group to remain on the internet smacks of censorship to me & so not something I would support.
Just because it is a group of individuals rather than a Government or Commercial enterprise engaged in the act does not make it a more palatable I think.
'Bully boy' tactics on those that disagree with you & the end justifying the means were part of what I thought Wikileaks was trying to shine a spotlight on, not participate in.

[jackspratt]

Bob is there any evidence that wikileaks has participated in, or even condoned, the work of the "hack-tivists"?

[BobHelm]

Maybe no evidence as yet jack. However they are, pretty obviously, in the main, supporters of the site, otherwise why the action? Unless you want to go into the twilight zone of the conspiracy world & believe that anti-wikileaks organisations are doing it to defame Wikileaks.
They, the hackers, are still failing to ask the question that I posed above about the need to think about freedom of speech. You cannot defend it by denying it to others.