Housing Projects

[wazza]

Nothing wrong at all in buying a property in Cellini, if you want to

Individuals tastes and lifestyles are all different.

Some people like to cook in a 1 million B kitchen, well good for them, others like to save 15 baht on a Large Leo in an outside bar and good for them also.

Retirement and how everyone wishes to spend it is up to the individual.

I like the properties in Cellini , I dont like the copy pastes of some estates and the lack of upmarket facilities , like a decent pool, clubhouse, spas,. saunsas etc

If i have worked hard, saved some money for retirement then why should others that havent got that oportunity automatically be negative to someones elses dream or lifestyle.

I supose the real test of Cellini will be when an already purchased property is then up for sale and thats when the comparison could be drawn.

[KHONDAHM]

Cellini is all about keeping up with the Joneses, IMHO. Most of us on this board are rational and practical. We don't buy Lexus when a Toyota gets us around just as well. We don't live in an oasis surrounded by a slum (Cellini) when for a fraction of the price we could get a custom lakeside western home with Ikea style kitchen and furnishings AND a buil-in guest apartment for visitors with a gorgeous view and plenty of land to enjoy all around us.

As rct has posted, westerners are not the primary buyers. We have common sense. The primary buyers are Thais looking for status. They want to tell their friends "Look at me. I am wealthy enough to live amongst westerners in a ridiculously expensive house." It's just like any city back in our home countries. There is always some section of town where one side of the street is typical and the other side is perceived to be for the wealthy. Both shop at the same market and are near the same neighborhood amenities, but living on the wealthy side is an ego boost.

I certainly am not knocking it. It's a brilliant marketing strategy that works.

[luangtom]

I seem to have not gotten another point across in my previous post. I neglected to say that I also worried about happening in the Isaan what happened to real-estate in the rural area of the USA that I lived and worked in. Rural residents and lakeshore residents that had lived their life-times on family farms or lake-property were priced and taxed right off their own land. I fear that the influx of those willing to spend extreme prices in Udon Thani and elsewhere will do the same to the native resident and their families. In years past, before the migration of folks wanting to start colonies of their making, farmers and their families passed down the property from one generation to the next and lived on it in relative security and comfort. Same went for city-bound shop-owners. It went from one generation to the next. Not so now, when they cave in to what they perceive as a way to riches with high real-estate prices. It is short-lived and they must replace what they sold.

I am not saying that one should not move to the Isaan to live a comfortable and relaxed life. I am saying, at what price?
It happened in the lakes area of Minnesota, it happened in the foot-hills area of Georgia, it happened in the mountain area of Colorado. The city-dwellers willing to pay extreme prices for property of questionable value literally drove the locals out of their multi-generation properties because they could not afford to remain and pay the continually rising property-taxes. Some property-values brought monthly tax hikes that exceeded the income of the property-owners. Many retirees that worked their whole lives to have a comfortable and quaint home to die in now had to move. I worry of that happening in Thailand, in the Isaan. I must remember, not all worry about the impact on others. But, afterall, we are but guests in Thailand.

[rct]

Wazza gets it. My choice to buy at Le Cellini was motivated by a desire to live in a comfortable, safe and convenient city location, no time to do a custom build, while NOT downgrading our lifestyle and surroundings just because we chose to live in Udon Thani.

No need to keep up with the Joneses or the Drillpigs.

Luangton correct too on that topic, take Phuket, locals can no longer afford it.

*****
Khondam, how is your project doing, or still secret?

Is your custom lakeside home surrounded by homes of equal value to yours within the mile perimeter, or might the neighbors' homes be classifed as slums? Are you five minutes drive to schools or favorite restaurants and shops in town? How is your security?

And will repeat, our Thai neighbors are too busy with their large scale successful businesses, to compare themselves to westerners.

*****
Currently there is a new project on the road running between Don Bosco and Global House, I give it a two thumbs up on quality and value, especially if one can get a bigger land plot on the boulevard. (sorry I don't know the name). I would have been happy to buy and live there for say 6-7 MB.

[KHONDAHM]

Is your custom lakeside home surrounded by homes of equal value to yours within the mile perimeter, or might the neighbors' homes be classifed as slums?

Is there such a thing as not being next to slum houses in Isaan within a mile perimeter? That's a pretty big area - that would be a circle with a 2 mile (3.2187 km) diameter, wouldn't it? Oh but wait, I just re-read all my posts (yeah, right) and do not see where I ever claimed to live in a place that costs THB 14 m. Just because it is expensive does NOT make it nicer than a THB 3.0-4.5m place. Personally, I think it is silly to pay that much money and be in a slum with spaghetti wires and whatnot overhead as soon as I step out the gate. You think it is great to have that for THB 14m. More power to ya. :-"

Typically, as with real cities like NYC, Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, etc. the price is mostly because of location. Sorry, but you walk out the gate of Cellini and you have...what? An electric company across the street with all-day traffic, terrible morning and afternoon school traffic on a road that floods during rainy season, repair shops and the like to the left and right.

Mall nearby? No. Lake? No. Golf course? No. Park? No. Arts center? No. Sorry, I just don't "get it" other than as I described above and in previous posts.

Are you five minutes drive to schools or favorite restaurants and shops in town? The location is far, far better than Cellini. Not too far away and not too close. Always peaceful with inspirational views. Private gravel road, no "too close" neighbors. Did I sell the first house, yet? No. Why? Because it is the first house on the land and the economy sucks. So I am moving into it myself and will build more over time. No rush. It's something for the kids to do/have when they grow up. I seriously doubt either of my kids will get past the "please send photo with your resume" part of looking for a job in the Land of Smiles - if they choose to stay. That's just a reality I have to prepare them for now by laying a path to economic independence for them in the future.

How is your security? Just fine. Thank you very much.

And will repeat, our Thai neighbors are too busy with their large scale successful businesses, to compare themselves to westerners.

If "success" means being "too busy", I'm as unsuccessful as they come. If it means having time to enjoy my family, I am 40-something and semi-retired 10 years already. You be the judge. Success is not about making money. Success is about having the time to enjoy the money you make. I spend the majority of the year doing absolutely nothing or whatever the [naughty word] I want whenever I feel like waking up and want for nothing. Someone still in the rat-race or thinks they need a price tag to impress people is not successful in my book.

Sorry. Bark up another tree, my friend.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Good for you. Entertaining, educational, straightforward, and humour too.

[rct]

Khondam generally and often makes some good points, many posters do. And most readers likely agree, different strokes for different folks, that is why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream as we don't all like the same.

However, Khondam has stated more than once on this very threed, that the Thai buyers at Le Cellini want status and to prove to their friends they are wealthy enough to live among westerners. It is a funny attitude, showing something of a superiority complex, or I am not sure what. What?

There happens to be a class of successful Thais, and farangs I might add, who can afford stuff, not all are seeking to "raise" their status, some have long already had financial means above the majority farang in Udon (often thought of as retired, though not all of us are retired). Many with means still appear modest to most outsiders if you saw the daily behavior and demeanor, though perhaps their house and cars are more premium than the average Joe. The whole country is not poor. And not all farangs marry poor village girls. Sweeping generalizations are tricky to make.

Le Cellini buyers seem humble enough ,and simply like it and want to be here and raise their families. They aren't doing it for show, they need not show, they have plenty of money and simply wish to live comfortably according to their personal choice and definition, not Khondam's.

The Thais here welcome all, 8 of 11 buyers thus far are Thai, and a Brit, French and American. With another 13 plots to build plus the owner's plot, hopefully the good mix and quality of neighbors continues, hence my motivation to help attract and complete the project.

[KHONDAHM]

You ever notice that when you get whupped by other posters, you usually switch to 3rd person? As if there is some potential buyer reading this thread and you just HAVE to hold on to that person. TRUST me. Any potential buyers would have stopped reading long, long ago. The only people still on this thread are all regulars. I doubt any are Thai. I suspect that any potential foreign buyers would have already done their research (this thread included) and decided to go buy that rice paddy and build a McFarang House on it. The facts that you represent to be true - that 8 of 11 buyers are Thai - supports everything I am saying. So, humor me...why the [naughty word] are you still posting and going on about Cellini? Is this like your ONLY hobby? Convincing yourself that you made a great choice and spent your money well? Scrolling back over the pages...nobody is agreeing with you. Neutral at best. Sorry, just sayin...perhaps it is time for a new hobby...or at least a new thread...

[wazza]

KHONDAHM

sorry, but i dont know rct, I do know Cellini , have been there twice and am looking at it seriously.

I dont want stage 1 as they are too big for a single guy and gf and no kids.

Stage 2 is of interest to me.

I like the place, the style and the other benefits that it offers.

Im not interested in a budget copy n paste development, with no imagination.

[rct]

Dear Khondam.

Every few months I revive the comatose thread dear to my heart, to share and seek updated constructive information. And since etiquette calls for it, I politely respond to direct questions, and or refute misinformation as needed etc. I believe readers start with most recent athreads and go back a bit. One reader sent me a personal message today thanking me.

More than anyone, I mention other housing projects too, quite often favorably, again some of them are Chonrada, Thanadorn, Sittarom, and recently the new one between Don Bosco and Global House.

Agreed Khondam you have master whupper status. Status....hmmmm....a sensitive subject? Not to me, I could care less, except to defend nice neighbors who have a lot more substance than what is inferred here by others.

Anyway let's keep informing people on the topic which again is:

HOUSING PROJECTS

[JR]

Khondam generally and often makes some good points, many posters do. And most readers likely agree, different strokes for different folks, that is why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream as we don't all like the same.

However, Khondam has stated more than once on this very threed, that the Thai buyers at Le Cellini want status and to prove to their friends they are wealthy enough to live among westerners. It is a funny attitude, showing something of a superiority complex, or I am not sure what. What?

There happens to be a class of successful Thais, and farangs I might add, who can afford stuff, not all are seeking to "raise" their status, some have long already had financial means above the majority farang in Udon (often thought of as retired, though not all of us are retired). Many with means still appear modest to most outsiders if you saw the daily behavior and demeanor, though perhaps their house and cars are more premium than the average Joe. The whole country is not poor. And not all farangs marry poor village girls. Sweeping generalizations are tricky to make.

Le Cellini buyers seem humble enough ,and simply like it and want to be here and raise their families. They aren't doing it for show, they need not show, they have plenty of money and simply wish to live comfortably according to their personal choice and definition, not Khondam's.

The Thais here welcome all, 8 of 11 buyers thus far are Thai, and a Brit, French and American. With another 13 plots to build plus the owner's plot, hopefully the good mix and quality of neighbors continues, hence my motivation to help attract and complete the project.

When saying what you do about your thai neighbours just shows you know nothing about thai mentality and "face". Also, I find it a bit pathetic that you, every time someone directs some critics towards Celini or your choice of house, you go into defense position. I do not understand why you feel you have to do that. Maybe you should look at yourself and ask. I said before, it is your choice what you deem important. You don't have to defend yourself here. But the more you do the more you show.

[KHONDAHM]

@rct/wazza
wazza joined in 2006 and has a few thousand posts. rct joined in 2007 and has less than 160. All that time, there are just 2 other threads where they both post. Aren't those some interesting facts?

[jackspratt]

Paranoia is never a good look KD.

I have been following this thread with some interest, but not contributed so far as I am highly unlikely as to ever have to make a decision about where I am going to live in Muang Udon Thani (thank goodness).

I have been surprised how personally (based on their writings here) people seem to have taken a decision by someone, as to how he spends his money - seemingly not hurting anyone else in the process.

Would I spend ฿14m on a house here? No.

Do I give a rat's asre if anyone else chooses to do so. An even more resounding no.

The most interesting fact that stands out to me on this thread is that it is rct's money, not yours.

[LoveDaBlues]

jackspratt

nail, hammer, square hit

[kopkei]

indeed ,everybody is entitled to spend his money the way they want , luckily,whether it is a 500.000bath home or 20.000.000 home , all up to them , no need to criticize , and after reading all this many pages all ready i wonder is there only one housing project? maybe we must change the OP to housing project la cellini? looks like this topic is headed to be a topic locked again , so we all know about la cellini, let us see some other housing projects ,and stop the backstabbing as this is getting boring , sorry....

[KHONDAHM]

Paranoia is never a good look KD.

The most interesting fact that stands out to me on this thread is that it is rct's money, not yours.

I accept the criticism and do not argue with facts.

Other posters make a valid point. The topic is "Housing Projects". Plural. Perhaps that is what is the thorn about this whole thread. Anyone who has been following it must agree that it always comes back to Cellini. I've complimented the place in the past and especially the marketing strategy. I agree that perhaps if the thread title were "Le Cellini Housing Projects", then it would be clear that this is a part of that marketing effort and not just opinions of someone who "happens" to live there. I guess I am saying, rct, is just try being real about it.

Le Cellini is a sponsor of Udon Map. I would not think Lee would have any problem at all with you having your own "Le Cellini Housing Projects" thread; and a lot of forum members would respect that thread. Nobody is out to kick over another man's rice bowl, ya know? We all are keenly aware of the chips stacked against us all to want to be another chip on the stack. But when you create a thread about "Housing Projects" as a cover for promoting Cellini, that is just begging for what you have been getting.

That's just my opinion, and I will now TRY to bugger off elsewhere.

(I always wanted to say "bugger off" - I hope I did so correctly and appropriately. British slang is so cute.)

[writemotive]

I just looked in to see what might be up to date on housing projects as we are building a home on wife's family's land in the countryside and I would like something in town when the kids need to be nearer resources, schools, etc. in town. Wow, instead I find an expert post on Thai mentality and "face", and why Thai with money need to live in Cellini. I was confused and thought they might have just wanted to live there. May I ask what I am doing if I move into an above average priced subdivision. I am not Thai, but what does it say about my mentality? Farang envy?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Khon Dahm, the same thing happened with the Adulyadej Thanon thread as it has just become a cover for a member/sponsor to highlight and glorify his and other farang establishments on the street.

[rct]

My first post on this thread is located on page 7 dated Oct 19 2008, tried to get the thread back on track and dicuss multiple housing projects in a positive discussion. Ditto from time to time in later posts intended to reignite dicsussion including re other projects.

Seldom getting any reply at all re other projects, only bashing. Nice housing and eating well are the only two threads of interest to me, Khondam figured out my secret.

I still go into new estates and look around, sometimes to help friends looking, and in part as I pondered investing in a little project for midrange, though concluded not a good use of my time and money for now, I still have a day job.

Apologies if my polite replies to negative posters in periodic debate, seemed to take over the thread, or seemed defensive including this one today.

Over and out.

[Khun Paul]

When this thread started it was about Housing projects in general and their pitfalls if any. I can honestly state having read through the majority of the posts, that you pay your money and you get your choice.
However I will reiterate, when I came here with loadsa of money, I looked at the majoprity of the then current new, old and under construction housing projects, and this is what I found,
This is not sour grapes just observations.
No matter who builds the project PK, Tanadorn or others, after the builder has finished the project goes down the swannee. Small shops/ businesses spring up coupled with the ensuing mess and that fact that the project is not kept as clean, people sell up and move out the facilities are not the same standard, in general the project becomes a bloody mess, there are some exceptions, privately owned projects where the owner lives on the site, but they are very rare indeed, and you would have to know the owner to know that fact.

personally although time consuming and tedious spending time looking for a private plot outside of a project or a old house in need of refurbishment on a private plot will have far more advantages over a housing project.

I quote a friend who looked at a project in BKK some years ago, for approx 2.5-3 mill, now that project is a bloody shambles as those with money have moved out to newer projects etc etc:- the spiral goes on, it is the same with cars, Thai's buy, no service nothing then they trade in and the car is a mechanical mess.