American & British History .

[trubrit]

On another topic I mentioned a difference in the sense of history between us . I used the word "sense" as in feeling for, not in a detrimental way or to say one is better or worse , just simply different. I received a reply saying, not understand. So this is my attempt to explain .Others may , possibly will, have different opinions and it will be enlightening to hear them, but this is mine . Lets take from a British perspective first .For us, history is a living thing, it is all around us, as much part of today's life as of yesterdays making .Take the recent Royal wedding as an example . Held in a building that dates back 800 years and still part of our daily life .For those lucky enough to live or visited the North of England /Scotland region .A walk across open fields will soon reveal a portion of Hadrians wall, or a settlement, where Romans lived 800 years ago .You could virtually go to any major town and see some symbol of our historic past, not always glorious mind you, but nonetheless of historic importance. Even the main arterial roads of today follow the original path of those constructed over eight centuries ago .If you venture into most of our major museums you will see artifacts recovered from the soil etc, dating back over 1000 years .All of this gives us Brits in the main, a sense or feeling that what we are today is very much shaped by the past but is still part of our life today .Now I must admit to not knowing much of American history, but am very willing to learn . In search of this aim I have visited museums in various locations around the states and the contrast in emphasise is noticeable . The major exhibit is more likely to be a guitar that was used by Elvis Presley or a white glove worn by Michael Jackson. Both being interesting to see but hardly likely to give an American visiting, a sense of identity, surely .
It would be nice to hear from one of our stateside friends giving their perspective on this.Hopefully it won't turn into the all too frequent slanging match .

[Shado]

Thank you for your response pointing out your perspective on the differences between the sense of British and American history. However I still don't understand your original post. I will quote you again; "Yes you can get a better room for your money in say , Udon, but I was not there, I was in Chiangkhan .I do realise however that normally us Brits have a different sense of history to our American friends .

What does your visit to Chiangkhan have to do with a different sense of history?

[BarnicaleBob]

As an American I have a different sense of British history than trubrit does; His quote "A walk across open fields will soon reveal a portion of Hadrians wall, or a settlement, where Romans lived 800 years ago" is not what we Americans would say. In my American sense of history I would have said; "where Romans lived between 2,000 and 1,500 years ago". But then I guess our history classes in America are just different.

[WhoUrDaddy]

Sadly, it's a bit relative. For any sense of real history, as colonial, Uk explorers or outcasts, you basically have to stay with the original 13 colonies, and can be a bit of an exaggeration. Since not many having deep water ports, Massachusetts and Delaware river, which fed those areas with new arrivals and allowed living to exist. New York of course, landing and launching point for many new arrivals. Concord and areas for UK arrivals, Philadelphia for Dutch and German, and of course the start up of 'American' history, with Declaration and Constitution penned there, along with much of the beginning government history. Ben Franklin and other statesmen, along with Virginia and that fine history. Charleston for a bit further south, but not much more than that. Since stick close to shore and ports, not much expansion, until after Louisiana purchase and after Civil War, so 100 years lost.

Anything else west of the original 13 states and they rely on local colour to bring in the tourist dollars. Sadly some only have fairly contemporary icons to rely on, so Elvis and MJ, sadly is all that is available. Many cities and areas rely on cultural, or food to bring in tourist. Blues music or different cooking styles. Fortunately the states are rather huge and diverse, so the landscape, Rockies, Grand Canyon and such act as a draw, but not much history.

Northeast would be the best, especially Philadelphia areas for diverse history, from government development to German, Amish expansion, Valley Forge, New Hope, to New Jersey and fighting Hessians, mercenaries of British empire at the time.

A mere 100 years at best of real history, which pales to 1000 year UK, European history. Sadly much of the indigenous history died with them, as the Aztec and Inca dynasties didn't make it that far north. No stories of gold or riches to induce explorer to plunder the locals as a bit south. Except for Europe's outcast or searchers for new life and adventure, not much would of come of the new world. If England hadn't been fighting 2 fronts, quite possibly they would of kept the states and we would be speaking proper English. Luckily they didn't realize the potential and France was always there to help things along. If not for fire sales of France and Russia, or stealing half of Mexico, there wouldn't be much of an United States to speak of.

[trubrit]

As an American I have a different sense of British history than trubrit does; His quote "A walk across open fields will soon reveal a portion of Hadrians wall, or a settlement, where Romans lived 800 years ago" is not what we Americans would say. In my American sense of history I would have said; "where Romans lived between 2,000 and 1,500 years ago". But then I guess our history classes in America are just different.

You are of course right BB. Nice to see you have some historian teachers in America .It is not sure when it was built and how long it was occupied but most journals list it as being started in 122AD and that it was certainly occupied until the 5th century , when the Roman empire started to crumble .Making your teachers spot on.Further interesting info on this .
http://www.wanderingaengustreks.com/factfileHW.htm

[Shado]

WhoUrDaddy wrote: "Sadly, it's a bit relative. For any sense of real history, as colonial, Uk explorers or outcasts, you basically have to stay with the original 13 colonies, and can be a bit of an exaggeration."


New Orleans founded: 1718

Detroit founded: 1701

St. Louis founded: 1764

They all have significant history and are a fair distance from New England.

[jimboLV]

Trubrit i suspect that you only visited tourist attractions rather than museums if all you saw was Elvis' guitar and Jacko's glove. In my extensive travels around America, being a history buff, I found that every state and almost every county has a Historical Museum with extensive artifacts of the area, going back in some cases to prehistoric times. Visit any of the National Parks and you will find the same; exhibits of the early settlers and of the Native Americans who came before them. That is our history and we're proud of it. No Roman walls but we do have the cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde, dating back to 1200 AD and before, and many other archelolsogical sites around the U.S.

That being said, I'm not sure of the point of this whole thread. After all a "Sense of History" could also be termed as "Living in the Past".

[WhoUrDaddy]

I sit corrected, viva la France and the Mississippi and St. Lawrence gateways, though still almost 100 years behind Jamestown and the Mayflower arriving. Still not a whole lot of history that Americans would travel for, let alone foreigners. Unless a major history buff. Though this was interesting, 1200 AD:

"The area that would become St. Louis was a center of the indigenous Mississippian culture, which at its peak about 1200 AD built elaborate city sites"

Good thing the French needed some francs and sold off everything.

[noosard]

Interesting statements about history
I would have thought evertwhere has history of some kind or time
including all these previous posts
I only come from 1 of the new colonies ( 200 odd years) but human history dates back a lot further than that
so all history is relative

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Just noticed this interesting little thread. Hmmm, I got a real sense of U.S. history when travelling to Florida with my parents about 50+ years or so ago. In particular, states like Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia had much to stimulate a young mind with the numerous statues and battlefields from the Civil War period. I became a bit of a Confederate war sympathiser at the time, and supported the South in the Blue-Grey and North-South Bowl football games. The Ole Miss Rebels, Alabama Crimson Tide and L.S.U. Tigers became my favourite college football teams to watch, and they still are. My father liked the Georgia Bulldogs.

On a nastier side, I got a taste of what it meant to be black in the States too. We stopped at a gas station in Georgia, and I went to drink water from a fountain when the attendant started screaming at me because I was drinking from the coloureds drinking fountain. I told him I was coloured, white, or he couldn't see me if I wasn't coloured. My parents collected their prize possession and hightailed it out of there. The Georgia State Police caught up with us a little bit later and gave my father a ticket for speeding, which he paid on the spot. He was not speeding, by the way.

We have a sense of history in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec too, in particular, with Wolfe's victory over the French, and General Brock leading the British, Canadians and Indians to victory over a larger U.S. force at Queenston's Heights during the War of 1812. We all also burnt down the White House after the Yanks razed York (Toronto) to the ground earlier in the war.

Wolfe, by the way, is buried at Greenwich, and there is a tribute to him at the Anglican Church established by Canadian soldiers in the First World War. At the top of Greenwich Hill is a statue to Wolfe erected by the family of the man Wolfe defeated on the Plains of Abraham - Montcalm.

Canada has had its share of great explorers from Britain and France too such as Champlain, Hudson, Horatio Nelson, Cook, Franklin, Alexander, Vancouver and many, many more. Fortunately, we have a constitutional monarchy with our head of government, Queen Elizabeth 2; therefore, Canadians can share in the pride the British have in their history. My ancestors came to England with the Conqueror and settled in the north of the country.

Many streets in Vancouver, British Columbia, are named after heroes and battlesites in the Crimean War, and our subway stations/streets/schools in Toronto have a distinct British Imperial feel to them: Palmerston, Carleton, Lansdowne, Dufferin (subway stop, street and school), individual George, Queen Alexandra, Jarvis, Earl Haig, Gladstone (his great rival, Disraeli, had been overlooked), Winston Churchill, Dalhousie and on and on.

Great stuff history.
'pho yu pho kin'

[jackspratt]

Just noticed this interesting little thread..................

You should visit the grown-up's forum a bit more often Uncle Tilo.