Expat Dress Code in Public Places

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trubrit
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Expat Dress Code in Public Places

Post by trubrit » June 17, 2011, 6:03 pm

wayne747 wrote:Now, I hope I do not offend anyone and this is not intended as a troll remark.
I say it respectfully, OK!
When I step off the plane in Udon and get around in Robinson and downtown Udon, it strikes me how well the thai males are dressed, whereas the farang often appear in old sandals, big beer belly straining an old t-shirt and to boot some well-used shorts.
I know our thermostat makes it hard for us to wear long jeans, but I feel it is very important for the wife that her husband looks presentable. It is "bad enough" she has an older guy, but if he looks like a slob, she looses face with friends, family and fellow thai.
I am not saying you must walk around in your pinstriped suit, just perhaps let her choose the t-shirt for you 8)
Also, sadly, I note many of us farang appear to drink a lot. That is a trap I must be careful to avoid when my time for retirement comes. [-X

Again, I am not dizzing anybody, just trying to make honest observations that might help SFguy and myself.

Nice post Wayne. I certainly agree with your observations on the appearance of many farang, many in the company of a very smart lady as well .I try to dress , what I term , smart but casual when in town but a little more relaxed at home. You would actually be surprised the number of times I have heard the lady, nudge her man and ask 'Why can't you be like that?" Which obviously falls on deaf ears as all that happens is , I get a dirty look . :lol: I would disagree however about the smart Thai blokes . There are a few, but there is also many scruffs as well .Sadly I think it is a general decline in all age groups and nationalities . :-"


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Expat Dress Code in Public Places

Post by FrazeeDK » June 17, 2011, 7:48 pm

agree with the two previous posters.. I rarely wear shorts downtown.. Generally, I'll wear nicer jeans and a button down short sleeve shirt when shopping.. Around the house, I'll wear shorts, t-shirts or sometimes follow my 49 year old nephews lead in not wearing a shirt when perform yard/garden work..

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Post by jackspratt » June 17, 2011, 10:06 pm

I suspect that preference for long/short trousers is very much based on nationality.

I doubt that any self-respecting Australian would wear long'uns in Udon except under the most exceptional circumstances.

For myself, I reckon in the 4+ years I have lived here, (in public) the cuffs of my pants would have met my ankles less that 10 times - and then usually only under duress.

(I make an exception for my wedding attire. :D)

And the imagined thoughts of those observing or commenting (Thai or farang) is not going to change that.

Put simply, except around December/January, shorts are comfortable, and long trousers are not - in my experience anyway.

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Post by nkstan » June 18, 2011, 6:25 am

I rarely wear long pants except for funerals,weddings and the few formal siuations I have been willing to attend,I am always clean and smell fresh when out amongst the public.
I think if a person is comfortable wearing long pants,suits,ties etc. etc. and it pleases their lady,then by all means do it,but to be uncomfortable for that reason,IMO,will not add to postive aspect of the marriage and might have an opposite effect on you.
Compatibility should be determined before marriage,IMO!But being divorced one more time,probably make my credibility on this topic questionable to some! :lol:

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Expat Dress Code in Public Places

Post by trubrit » June 18, 2011, 6:59 am

jackspratt wrote:I suspect that preference for long/short trousers is very much based on nationality.

I doubt that any self-respecting Australian would wear long'uns in Udon except under the most exceptional circumstances.

For myself, I reckon in the 4+ years I have lived here, (in public) the cuffs of my pants would have met my ankles less that 10 times - and then usually only under duress.

(I make an exception for my wedding attire. :D)

And the imagined thoughts of those observing or commenting (Thai or farang) is not going to change that.

Put simply, except around December/January, shorts are comfortable, and long trousers are not - in my experience anyway.

But I am not sure what this has to do with the subject of the OP. :-k
It obviously has a connection with the OP. If your partner can't be bothered to dress or present himself in a way that is complimentary to his lady partner when they go out, he can possibly improve the excitement of the occasion for her by smartening up a bit. Who knows he might enjoy the experience as well .
Now my post was not about the leg length of the persons attire, but about the image what one wears , presents.You can be scuffy or smart in whatever you wear, be it , long or short. It was rather about Wayne747 observations of some Farang seen around the center .He also mentioned beer bellies. To me this is a sign of laziness as well as alcoholism. It obviously takes a degree of self discipline to eat better and exercise more which these guys don't seem to have. Maybe if they tried it the result would also add excitement to the marriage. I would add an observation of my own . STINK. In this climate we all sweat more so its important we pay attention to our cleanliness. I have often recoiled when passing some farang when I get a whiff. The smells range from BO to alcohol and with some of the older specimens, pee .Now I am just going past them in literally seconds, but the lady has to live with it . How ever do you think she can get excited when she has that to contend with? I am not knocking any particular category here as I am old, drink and sweat as much as most, but I am aware of it and try to combat it.Some apparently don't .So full swing back to the original question . Smarten up, slim down and wash often may just about provide enough excitement to rejuvenate a sagging relationship .This is not a direct reply to the OP, as an ex marine I am sure he is already on the ball with them all, but there are some out there that do need to heed that advise obviously .
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Expat Dress Code in Public Places

Post by Welshboy » June 18, 2011, 7:45 am

wayne747 wrote:
Now, I hope I do not offend anyone and this is not intended as a troll remark.
I say it respectfully, OK!
When I step off the plane in Udon and get around in Robinson and downtown Udon, it strikes me how well the thai males are dressed, whereas the farang often appear in old sandals, big beer belly straining an old t-shirt and to boot some well-used shorts.
I know our thermostat makes it hard for us to wear long jeans, but I feel it is very important for the wife that her husband looks presentable. It is "bad enough" she has an older guy, but if he looks like a slob, she looses face with friends, family and fellow thai.
I am not saying you must walk around in your pinstriped suit, just perhaps let her choose the t-shirt for you 8)
Also, sadly, I note many of us farang appear to drink a lot. That is a trap I must be careful to avoid when my time for retirement comes. [-X

Again, I am not dizzing anybody, just trying to make honest observations that might help SFguy and myself.
Well Wayne 747.
If you want to suck up to your Thai friends by bad mouthing other farangs, then that is up to you.
Most farangs have earned the right to have a beer belly, hang around in old sandals T shirt and well used shorts.
After you have worked 40 years +.
Then mabe you will of earned the right to contradict your betters.

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Post by Welshboy » June 18, 2011, 8:14 am

Tubrit.
Now my post was not about the leg length of the persons attire, but about the image what one wears , presents.You can be scuffy or smart in whatever you wear, be it , long or short. It was rather about Wayne747 observations of some Farang seen around the center .He also mentioned beer bellies. To me this is a sign of laziness as well as alcoholism. It obviously takes a degree of self discipline to eat better and exercise more which these guys don't seem to have. Maybe if they tried it the result would also add excitement to the marriage. I would add an observation of my own . STINK. In this climate we all sweat more so its important we pay attention to our cleanliness. I have often recoiled when passing some farang when I get a whiff. The smells range from BO to alcohol and with some of the older specimens, pee .Now I am just going past them in literally seconds, but the lady has to live with it . How ever do you think she can get excited when she has that to contend with? I am not knocking any particular category here as I am old, drink and sweat as much as most, but I am aware of it and try to combat it.Some apparently don't .So full swing back to the original question . Smarten up, slim down and wash often may just about provide enough excitement to rejuvenate a sagging relationship .
Sitting in the Officers Mess drinking G&T.
Not giving a tinkers cus for the human race.
What gives you the right to talk about other farangs like this.
This is no better than the gutter press at its worst !

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Post by trubrit » June 18, 2011, 8:29 am

Welshboy wrote:
Tubrit.


Sitting in the Officers Mess drinking G&T.
Not giving a tinkers cus for the human race.
What gives you the right to talk about other farangs like this.
This is no better than the gutter press at its worst !
Woops . Hit a nerve did it? :lol:
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Post by Welshboy » June 18, 2011, 8:32 am

No. You need feeling, dont you ?
One Airman to an Officer. Sir :lol:

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Post by fatbob » June 18, 2011, 8:46 am

In my humble opinion I dont believe dress of westerners has much to do with a Thai female losing face because her husband looks like a slob. Thai females will lose face with 90% of the Thai public just by being with a westerner regardless, they will naturally pressume that lady is an ex bar girl, like it or lump it thats a fact and that is the basket Thais will put her in.
As far as dress goes, who cares, when I finish work I am covered in sweat and dirt, if I have to stop at the supermarket I am not going home to shower then coming back to shop. Some westerners must realise we are not ALL here retired and pretending to be super wealthy in this country where back home we are middle of the road, cut the BS. Back home people do all sorts of work and live normal lives, why pretend here, its hot, who wants to wear long pants.

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Post by parrot » June 18, 2011, 8:09 pm

When we came here in the late 90's the only people wearing shorts downtown were the samlor drivers. For a long time I thought maybe the 'uniform' was mandatory to isolate that group from others in society....but I guess it could just as well be to keep the cuffs of long pants out of the chain sprocket. Anyone ever see a samlor driver in long pants?

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Post by semperfiguy » June 18, 2011, 10:42 pm

I'm going to expound on some of the comments pertaining to dress code because I too believe that it can have an influence on the quality of a relationship. Actually there are so many diverse thoughts on the subject that it probably should have its own thread. In many respects the way in which we dress plays a huge role in defining who we are as people. Clothes and the way in which we wear them are actually "uniforms" that send a message to other people as to our status and stage in life. They signal that we may be a military person, a government employee, a businessman, a tourist, a transvestite, a rich man, a poor man, etc, etc. Grooming and hygiene say a lot about our upbringing and training, our status in life, our self-esteem and attitudes about ourselves and how we want to be perceived by other people, etc, etc.

Personally, these matters have been important to me for as long as I can remember. I was raised by a US Marine "Gunny" Guadalcanal veteran, and I later became a US Marine Sergeant Vietnam vet, so before I left the house I had to be spit shined from head to toe. Up until the time I retired last year, I never walked out of my home without a fresh coat of polish on my shoes and pressed clothing. I've never owned a pair of blue jeans, never worn a t-shirt as an outer garment and have never worn a pair of shorts or tennis shoes unless I was on my way to the gym or jogging track. God forbid that I would put on a pair of sandals because where I come from only queers wear sandals. Flip-flops were something that only poor kids in underdeveloped countries wore in public; otherwise, they were only meant for the beach or the shower room.

Growing up I used to spend hours looking at my family’s old photo albums and watching old movies on TV. I was amazed that men, even the poor ones, were always dressed in shirt and tie or coat and tie, and there seemed to be no such thing as "casual dress" during the era of my parents. Every occasion was an occasion to “dress up”. When I first started traveling to Asia for business in the late 70's, I began to notice a major evolution in the way that Americans dressed. Walking through an American airport back then, one would only see travelers dressed in their best attire. 24 hours later I would be on the streets of Manila and see poor folks in t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops. Over the years as I would return to the States, after being away for months at a time, I began to observe that the American public started looking more and more like the poor folks in the streets of Manila. At the same time the Filipino middle class was emerging as a major economic force, and they aspired to emulate the upper class. I never saw an upper class Filipino “dress down” for any occasion. Now what you have in America is a generation of older fathers who have no interest in “dressing up” to set a high standard for their children, but men with no backbone who prefer to emulate the modern culture and “dress down” to fit in with their children. They’re no longer interested in raising the bar, taking the high road and being a good example/role model for this wayward generation, but they would rather just be their children’s “best friend”. God forbid they should offend or embarrass one of them by “dressing old-fashioned”. So now we have grandfathers running around with long hair and ponytails, earrings, piercings and tattoos and wearing tie dyed t-shirts, knee length basketball uniform shorts and flip flops.

When I first came to Udon I tried to go the polo shirt, shorts and tennis shoe route, but it just isn’t me! My wife would never dare say a word against it, but I could tell that she wasn’t comfortable with it. And I disagree with the poster that said all Thai women who are married with falangs have already lost face no matter how their husband dresses. There’s not a community on the planet that doesn’t form an opinion of a person based on their mode of dress and first appearance. So, when I’m out and about in town I’m back to wearing Docker type or dress long pants, a nice short-sleeved Thai silk shirt and comfortable dress shoes with socks (carry a shoe horn in my pocket, so shoes go on and off easily). Hair is neatly trimmed and always clean shaven. No matter where my wife and I go, it never fails that more than one lady will approach my wife and make the comment that they have never seen a falang that looked so neat. When we go to the small market in her provincial village of Phon Sa, all the vendors and shoppers gawk like they’ve just seen an alien. What they expect to see is the dishelved, tattooed beer belly bloke that dishonors Thai women and looks poorer than the poorest of Thais.

So what am I trying to say here? I’m not quite sure…just making some observations to give us all something to think about. Whether we like it or not we must all deal with cultural norms, stereotyping, prejudices, paradigms, bigotry, racism and the like. I’m not writing this letter to rattle my own chain, and I’m not trying to be critical of anyone…it’s your life so you live it the way you want to. Heck, I wear boxer shorts all day around the house, and if I’m going a couple hundred meters from the house to grab a quick bowl of noodle soup, I’ll throw on a t-shirt and some swim trunks and slippers. But next time you’re headed to town, just remember that people are watching us, and whether we like it or not we are a role model and example of the infamous western societies to the Thai public and especially to a new generation of younger Thai students who are out and about by the droves. We represent our heritage, our family and our country of citizenship, and the way we dress, groom and carry ourselves leaves an indelible impression on those who cross our path. Wouldn’t it be to all’s advantage to leave a favorable and respectable impression?

For those of you who have decided to just come to Thailand and drop out of the human race, then this post is not for you. For those of us who might be fence sitters, maybe there’s a little nugget of truth and understanding here for those who have an ear to listen and a heart to receive.

I wrote this post earlier today and was unsure if I wanted it to go to press, so I saved it and headed to UD Town for dinner out with my wife and another couple. I couldn’t believe the number of hideous looking falangs that crossed in front of our sidewalk table in a one hour period of time. If there had been a foxhole under my table I would have crawled in it out of shear embarrassment for them. Now…I know what you’re thinking….who does this guy think he is? Hey…if the shoes fits then wear it! If none of this registers with you, or you just don’t care, then both of us have just had five minutes of mental stimulation that we wouldn’t have had otherwise. Cheers to all and to all a good night!

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Post by Charoensri » June 18, 2011, 11:04 pm

Absolutely fantastic post. =D> Anybody disagreeing can only be one of that ilk that walk around in what I call underwear showing off tattoos and body hair and make me want to vomit.

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Post by KHONDAHM » June 19, 2011, 6:13 am

In my experience and personal observations:

Someone posted that the woman will lose face by just being with a farang. If you are talking about middle and upper class Thai society, then I do not disagree with that. It's a whole 'nother story if you're talking about the underclass which looks upon her as "lucky", a "Madame", and with envy. If you are living in Udon, I think it is safe to say the overwhelming number of looks she will get will be of envy from the underclass. In Bangkok - not so much.

On the matter of dress, what is the harm in keeping your shorts and wearing a button down shirt over that t-shirt when leaving the house with the Mrs.? What qualifies as "dressed up" in Thailand is a far cry from same in farangland. Here, a button down and shoes that cover the entire foot is the equivalent of respectfully casual dress. Add long slacks and you are business casual. However, having a ponytail and/or facial hair is almost always frowned upon and brings you down at least a couple of notches no matter what you are wearing.

When I go out with the Mrs. wearing jeans or shorts, she wants me in a shirt that says I am younger than I actually am (believe me, I look it, too) and it sometimes makes me fit in with the MTV stereotype - and that makes me "more attractive" to younger (under 30) Thai women. However, if we are meeting up with friends or expect visitors at the house, I would not even think to wear anything other than a button down shirt. Khakis if going out to meet up with middle class or Hiso people or officials. Works well and the wife is always pleased and proud.

For her part, what the Mrs. wears and when changes with her mood. Personally, I wish she would wear high heels and "I am a wife and mom but still damn sexy" clothes when we are out together, rarely ever happens. I find myself eyeing other women who make the effort, and tell the wife I want her dressed like that sometimes, but the killer Maxim bod stays packaged and wrapped in the rags-of-the-day and flat soles or mini-heels (never flip-flops). Just not her thing, and the rare times she does to please me, she does not feel comfortable. So, I don't push it too much and she encourages me to go "wherever need to go" if I need to look at sexy women. I never do here in Udon (would hit a daytime go-go to ogle maybe once every other month when we lived in Pattaya) but damned if she doesn't trust me completely.

Speaking of trust...my wife is absolutely my BFF, and I am her rock. That level of our relationship has gotten us through many a situation and circumstance which I have seen doom others. Mutual trust, respect, and appreciation are the bedrock of what we have together and what I see missing from so many couples around us. As someone posted previously, the wife is all too often made to be or feels like just another addition. Someone to take care of the chores, feed and fck him. I know of oh so many wives who genuinely love their man, but feel neglected as a person and lack mutual trust in their relationship. The guys are either unaware or simply do not care. Often with the attitude that "I'm providing, so everything is fine". Nah, brah. It's not. Thai women have an amazing ability to "o-tone" (endure) without displaying the slightest hint that is what they are doing. Even if asked directly, they will deny it rather than open up about how they really feel or talk about what bothers them. There is a term in psychology for the behavior, but to describe it, it is the behavior where feelings are suppressed, but the person is maintaining a checklist of things they do not like (help me out if you know it). Anyway, I would opine that most Thai women exhibit that behavior. At some point, they may snap and all hell breaks lose because of all those accumulated checkmarks. Recall those sensational stories about what Thai wives do. Anything from taking everything and leaving him to hiring a hitman.

To take a shortcut to my point: Focus on trust and pay attention to HER emotional needs. Prioritize her above yourself. Works wonders.

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Post by trubrit » June 19, 2011, 7:12 am

Thanks for those last three posters. After many years I have learnt I am not just a voice in the wilderness. I am comparatively normal . It was nice to see it came from both sides of the pond too . Not just a Brit thing . :roll: \:D/
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Post by Saboo » June 19, 2011, 7:14 am

Is this what this forum is about... members telling others how they should dress... [-X who do they /you think they are...?? why carnt people wear what they want...?

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Post by pompui » June 19, 2011, 7:28 am

KHONDAHM wrote: . However, having a ponytail and/or facial hair is almost always frowned upon and brings you down at least a couple of notches no matter what you are wearing.
I must speak to a couple of farang in the Udon area to advise them of this :D

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Post by jimboLV » June 19, 2011, 7:53 am

Excellent post KD. A lot of truth in what you say. I believe the term you are looking for is "Passive Aggressive" behavior. It seems to be rampant in Thailand, especially in the female version. Can be devastating if one party, especially the farang, is not aware of it. It took me a while before I convinced my wife that it's OK to say "no", or "let's do something different".

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Post by grozza » June 19, 2011, 8:34 am

while i agree on most points made by kd one thing i dont agree on is this thing about dress code,im sure everybodys heard the old saying dont judge a book on a cover well i believe in that,over the years i have met a lot of different types of people and the people that be themselves ie beard,daggy clothes and rough looking,these people are usually nice people there not hiding behind some image they are trying to portray,i remember we were in the shopping complex when we seen a couple from the wifes village who a teachers and they were dressed up i said where are they going she said nowhere just shopping,each to there own but please dont judge someone on the way they dress.

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Post by fatbob » June 19, 2011, 8:41 am

I have to disagree Khonda, your underclass also scorn upon the lady with the Westerner (I will not use the term farang as I find it derogitry and racist) , I know this because my workers are the underclass, we have couples working and over the years many staff, I have worked with these people since 1996 full time, a female construction worker earning 220b a day considers the Thai lady with westerner very low, lazy and a bargirl, you cannot and will not change that, she may be jealous because she has money, but that is how they think, my wife is not the only one that tells me this, the Thais I work with say this, and she also gets branded into this bracket, lucky for me I dont care. I have had the missfortune to go to weddings and functions with some of Phukets wealthy hi-so people (suppliers we use etc) , at these functions my wife is walking on eggshells and extremly uncomfortable.

I have trouble coming to grips with the perception of quality of dress equals wealth and a high standing within the community, our present client is one of the wealthiest men in the world, he rocks up to site in shorts, thongs and t shirt, I have had other clients here the same, you then have the guy who hits the bars or the shopping centre dressed up like a prima dona thinking he is Bill Gates and hasnt two bob to rub together and dosent do anything for anyone within the local community, its all show, who cares.

I think if people are worried about how they are seen within the community they should undertake activities that actually mean something and do something directly, ie; * charity works helping the poor, homeless.* A business that creates employment. There is so much that could be done if you have the time and are concerned.

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