" it was what the man ate, which as far as I can ascertain DID NOT come from the hotel"
That's what they said about the hotel in Chiangmai. It was the seaweed at the market!! Well, at least that's what they claimed it was.....until the numbers didn't add up.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
In r4a;lity the fact that this man refused the hotels insistence to seek medical help for his problem and subsequently dies could be construed as a suicide, however it would seem that an intestinal illness caused his demise coupled with his obviously stupidity in refusing medical assistance. Now that could be because of lack of medical insurance and or money. For a normally healthy person to die from acute bowl problems would take a few days at least which supposes that the man came to Udon already suffering in part from one or more of these problems.
Jumping to conclusions has never been my creed but care analysis of the available facts ( sketchy though they are here ) to come up with a credible explanation.
While some may complain at my use of the word stupid in relation to this poor man, the facts are that he failed to take care of himself and assumed all would be well.
RIP old feller we will probably never know the real truth as it died with you.
Jumping to conclusions has never been my creed but care analysis of the available facts ( sketchy though they are here ) to come up with a credible explanation.
While some may complain at my use of the word stupid in relation to this poor man, the facts are that he failed to take care of himself and assumed all would be well.
RIP old feller we will probably never know the real truth as it died with you.
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wazza
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Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Sorry but its not even near suicide KP and your Policing background should have told u that already.Khun Paul wrote:the fact that this man refused the hotels insistence to seek medical help for his problem and subsequently dies could be construed as a suicide, .
Patients have the right to refuse medical assistance and care, read any Patients Charter of rights at a hospital, and yes they even have them in Thaikand.
Refusing or not requesting clinical care is not suicide.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
OT refuses everything except: gas and air, morphine, pethadine and a WFB nursewazza wrote:Patients have the right to refuse medical assistance and care, read any Patients Charter of rights at a hospital,
OT.............
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Wazza I am aware of the law and legalities concerning suicides however if one does not seek medical help and subsequently dies from an illness it is not legally suicide and you are certificated as dying from whatever you died of, but it is the same as sitting in a gas filled room, and doing nothing you will die of gas inhalation but failing to take care of oneself when you are aware of the outcome ( death ) I said could be construed as suicide, even though it isn't. he did not refuse medical care he refused to seek it at all which is slightly different.
So before you jump down my throat please read what i say thanks.
So before you jump down my throat please read what i say thanks.
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jackspratt
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Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
I would be surprised if anyone voluntarily and knowingly sits inside a gas filled room expecting to recover.
Whereas someone with severe gastro may feel they can wait it out, and recover.
Therein lies the difference I am sure wazza was alluding to.
Whereas someone with severe gastro may feel they can wait it out, and recover.
Therein lies the difference I am sure wazza was alluding to.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
You would be surprised what people will do if they are having a hard time of life, BUT in our world ( western world ) there are agencies notably the police who will act if their suspicions are raised and i have entered a gas filled house to turn off the gas before the occupant passed away as we had been alert4d to the smell by a neighbour.
Nowt so queer as folk , and although one can appreciate that if one is suffering from a severe gastro problem perhaps waiting out is an option in your own country but here I would go to see a doctor pretty quick.
Point taken but the result is still the same the poor man made a bad decision if he was compos mentis that is.
Nowt so queer as folk , and although one can appreciate that if one is suffering from a severe gastro problem perhaps waiting out is an option in your own country but here I would go to see a doctor pretty quick.
Point taken but the result is still the same the poor man made a bad decision if he was compos mentis that is.
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wazza
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Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
I would like to put a summary on this sad incident and hope it also prompts a few people here in Udon and any other accomadation establishment etc.
'
'My summary is based on what has been published here on UM and no other contact with local authorities, so it still could be different to the Police etc
The guy was found unwell in his hotel room, and there was evidence of faecal discharge etc, which does suggest a gastro intestinal condition, as a high suspect. Note people who are also unconscious , have strokes etc, also defecate with their condition.
The hotel staff were aware of this, and have let it go for a few days, based on the guy "not wishing assistance" now this is where his condition could have complicated his decision making abilities. If he was dehydrated , his BP is down, his electrolytes are all over the place, renal complications and his is rapidly becoming a metabolic nightmare, capable of speekin, but not capable of making an informed decision about his outlook.
The hotel staff IMO, had a duty of care here to call the local authorities, they knew he was unwell, and the physical evidence in his room, would suggest that. Either a reluctance or inablity to communicate with his may be a reason but not an excuse in calling the local ambulance service and have them assess him in the room, and allow a clinical judgement to be made.
The fact that this didnt happen, IMO has been the major contributing factor in his demise, as once his condition hits the critical slippery slope, nothing much can be done, once your ability to speak, communicate, or move etc
Do those accomadation places in Udon, that provide rooms / accomadation have an Emergency response plan for any medical incident involving their guests, do they have the phone numbers of the local hospitals, ambulance, police, or will they try and track down a copy of Udon Map magazine etc...
Its too late to try and track down a number once the emergency has kicked off already....
'
'My summary is based on what has been published here on UM and no other contact with local authorities, so it still could be different to the Police etc
The guy was found unwell in his hotel room, and there was evidence of faecal discharge etc, which does suggest a gastro intestinal condition, as a high suspect. Note people who are also unconscious , have strokes etc, also defecate with their condition.
The hotel staff were aware of this, and have let it go for a few days, based on the guy "not wishing assistance" now this is where his condition could have complicated his decision making abilities. If he was dehydrated , his BP is down, his electrolytes are all over the place, renal complications and his is rapidly becoming a metabolic nightmare, capable of speekin, but not capable of making an informed decision about his outlook.
The hotel staff IMO, had a duty of care here to call the local authorities, they knew he was unwell, and the physical evidence in his room, would suggest that. Either a reluctance or inablity to communicate with his may be a reason but not an excuse in calling the local ambulance service and have them assess him in the room, and allow a clinical judgement to be made.
The fact that this didnt happen, IMO has been the major contributing factor in his demise, as once his condition hits the critical slippery slope, nothing much can be done, once your ability to speak, communicate, or move etc
Do those accomadation places in Udon, that provide rooms / accomadation have an Emergency response plan for any medical incident involving their guests, do they have the phone numbers of the local hospitals, ambulance, police, or will they try and track down a copy of Udon Map magazine etc...
Its too late to try and track down a number once the emergency has kicked off already....
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
I would hazzard a guess the hotels response to a death on premies is as quick as the fire brigade . a mate of mines house recently burnt down within 5 km of the fire station the emergency call was made nd it took over an hour for the fire truck to arrive ......no joke they didnt stop for somtam , THEY STOPPED TO FILL THE TRUCK WITH WATER TO PUT OUT THE FIRE as they dont leave the truck full cos it damages the tyres ,,,,,,, sad but true. suffice to say the house burnt down .
m point being these types of drills n practices in case of emergency are a nothingness here , wether it would have helped this poor chap is irelevant now , and no matter how much lobbying to get hotels and emergency services to have a plan will change anything imo,,,,,,,,, why ,, i dont know !!
mash
m point being these types of drills n practices in case of emergency are a nothingness here , wether it would have helped this poor chap is irelevant now , and no matter how much lobbying to get hotels and emergency services to have a plan will change anything imo,,,,,,,,, why ,, i dont know !!
mash
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
In all fairness, it would have been a bit pointless the fire engine turning up otherwise. Do fire hydrants exist in Thailand ? Cant say OT's noticed, I'd have knocked one over by now.pienmash wrote:THEY STOPPED TO FILL THE TRUCK WITH WATER
OT............
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wazza
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Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
That's why they only have basic tankers with small hp pumps. They don't have a full pump n tender rig like in uk / oz etc and mains supplies with hydrants are limited.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Wazzas point is well made, where does the Hotels or for that matter any establishment responsibility end or start. Does the Hotel have a duty of care in the case of a person who is obviously ill or not, like any establishment do you call the authorities if a person is ill eg:- a restaurant where a person is obviously suffering from eating some food which is causing a problem or do they let him/her die. NO I think they would act quickly, so even though the Hotel did not immediately call the authorities they should have after 24hrs notified someone preferably the Health Authority ( yes they do have one here ) to look at the situation or deal with it.
If one is on holiday alone one assumes that if you stay in a hotel they should have a duty of care to ensure your stay is succesful and enjoyable, if by chance something happens and you become incapacitated due to an illness and you are unable to deal with the matter yourself one assumes the Hotel would do the right thing and call in the experts.
Obviously on this occasion it did not happen and I am sure that although the Hotel will not suffer any negativity due to their incompetence it is a point worth making I am sure to relevant Authorities like the Tourism board.
If one is on holiday alone one assumes that if you stay in a hotel they should have a duty of care to ensure your stay is succesful and enjoyable, if by chance something happens and you become incapacitated due to an illness and you are unable to deal with the matter yourself one assumes the Hotel would do the right thing and call in the experts.
Obviously on this occasion it did not happen and I am sure that although the Hotel will not suffer any negativity due to their incompetence it is a point worth making I am sure to relevant Authorities like the Tourism board.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
old-timer wrote:In all fairness, it would have been a bit pointless the fire engine turning up otherwise. Do fire hydrants exist in Thailand ? Cant say OT's noticed, I'd have knocked one over by now.pienmash wrote:THEY STOPPED TO FILL THE TRUCK WITH WATER
OT............
There are many fire hydrant / water stand pipes throughout the city… painted gray not red as you would imagine…
Mr. Saboo
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
"I am sure that although the Hotel will not suffer any negativity due to their incompetence it is a point worth making I am sure to relevant Authorities like the Tourism board."
No offense intended to those who are criticizing the hotel for their inaction......but, as they say, t.i.t.........when you stay in one of the hotels (anything but the internationally run type), you're lucky if the staff can speak English, you're extra lucky if the doors for fire escape aren't locked for 'security reasons', and as for any emergency-procedure training for the staff, I'd think that unlikely. If you're really really lucky, the hotel hasn't had your room sprayed for bedbugs recently!
No offense intended to those who are criticizing the hotel for their inaction......but, as they say, t.i.t.........when you stay in one of the hotels (anything but the internationally run type), you're lucky if the staff can speak English, you're extra lucky if the doors for fire escape aren't locked for 'security reasons', and as for any emergency-procedure training for the staff, I'd think that unlikely. If you're really really lucky, the hotel hasn't had your room sprayed for bedbugs recently!
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Does T.I.T then exonerate the hotel completely, any business runs on the successful way it deals with its clientele, it therefore means that this hotel should be removed from advertising for foreigners as if TIT was acceptable then it is for the local population only , but i doubt if they would deal with a Thai national the same way.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
The hotel is not guilty of ANYTHING when taken in the context of a local hotel in a provincial Thai city. To suggest that such establishments should have some sort of highfalutin HSE and medical evacuation policy akin with that of say, a luxury liner is laughable. It's cultural here to not get involved. Witness a deranged (or drunk) local wandering about in traffic and watch how long it takes a concerned local to step in and protect said loony from hurting himself or others? It's not apathy or selfishness although it can look as such. It's the Thai way.
It's the western trait of holding someone responsible for every little thing that befalls one personally, even if it be through ones own inactivity or personal choice. This does not apply in Thailand and most SE Asian countries. The unfortunate subject of the OP knew he had something wrong with him BEFORE any cascading physiological collapse took control. Unfortunate, we can't expect the Thai's to hold our hands when we are incapable of holding our own. It's just not in their DNA.
Unless it's family of course.
It's the western trait of holding someone responsible for every little thing that befalls one personally, even if it be through ones own inactivity or personal choice. This does not apply in Thailand and most SE Asian countries. The unfortunate subject of the OP knew he had something wrong with him BEFORE any cascading physiological collapse took control. Unfortunate, we can't expect the Thai's to hold our hands when we are incapable of holding our own. It's just not in their DNA.
Unless it's family of course.
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kjellsnell
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Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Maybe its not in there DNA but...it should be in there lifestile if.....they where genuin buddists.....one of the must importent rule in a geniun buddists life is: If you make god...you have god back .......Tam dee!!!tamada wrote:The hotel is not guilty of ANYTHING when taken in the context of a local hotel in a provincial Thai city. To suggest that such establishments should have some sort of highfalutin HSE and medical evacuation policy akin with that of say, a luxury liner is laughable. It's cultural here to not get involved. Witness a deranged (or drunk) local wandering about in traffic and watch how long it takes a concerned local to step in and protect said loony from hurting himself or others? It's not apathy or selfishness although it can look as such. It's the Thai way.
It's the western trait of holding someone responsible for every little thing that befalls one personally, even if it be through ones own inactivity or personal choice. This does not apply in Thailand and most SE Asian countries. The unfortunate subject of the OP knew he had something wrong with him BEFORE any cascading physiological collapse took control. Unfortunate, we can't expect the Thai's to hold our hands when we are incapable of holding our own. It's just not in their DNA.
Unless it's family of course.
Westerner found dead in Udon Hotel
Tamada, I sincerely hope that should you be ill in ANY Thai establishment , they deal with you as per your post and let you die, your relatives night have some closure when the authorities find that someone is neglilent, but then i suspect that with your comments they would be happy to see you go.
If in line with the Thai Tourist Authorities guidelines, places of residence be they hotels etc:- fail to meet the minimum standards they do actually commint a whole variety of offences ( now enforcement might be bad ) but basic care of residents is paramount. I am not talking HSE oirother such stringent rules and regulations, but basic care, person ill, refuses help , notify authorities.simple really one phone call, it would appear that even that was not done, what would happen had this person contracted a serious illness which created a mini epidemic , and the hotel was found to be guilty.
Seriously all places where tourists go are responsible not only to their staff but to the wider population , the fact that the hotel did not take any action really means that they do not care and as such should be removed from a register of hotels until their staff undergo basic customer care courses as a minimum requirement.
Noit that will change attitudes I am sure but it will show willing.
If in line with the Thai Tourist Authorities guidelines, places of residence be they hotels etc:- fail to meet the minimum standards they do actually commint a whole variety of offences ( now enforcement might be bad ) but basic care of residents is paramount. I am not talking HSE oirother such stringent rules and regulations, but basic care, person ill, refuses help , notify authorities.simple really one phone call, it would appear that even that was not done, what would happen had this person contracted a serious illness which created a mini epidemic , and the hotel was found to be guilty.
Seriously all places where tourists go are responsible not only to their staff but to the wider population , the fact that the hotel did not take any action really means that they do not care and as such should be removed from a register of hotels until their staff undergo basic customer care courses as a minimum requirement.
Noit that will change attitudes I am sure but it will show willing.