Teaching in Udon Thani

[Frankie 1]

All the posts are very interesting. I am coming from Quebec, Canada and do not speak english but I know education pretty well. I have a BA Ed. and some other diplomas in school administration as I was a teacher for 9 years (I taught accounting) and I was a school director for more than 20 years. The diploma is the very base to teach but it is not all. I knew teachers with master degree and they cannot teach good. "A good teacher is the teacher that the students learn well the subject they teach". If you teach english and your students do not speak english, I mean not a word, you didn't teach good. I had an english teacher who knows 11 languages. As director, I went in his class to see how he was teaching. He was really funny, making jokes and speaking easily and all he was speaking about was really intereting. BUT, all the students (around 15 years of age) look like "frozen fishes" and cannot understand what he was saying. I met him and I talked with him about that. He told me if they are in that grade they must know... they must but they don't know: Change your way of teaching.

Here in Nong Wua So, in my house's yard, there are 5 students going to NWS School. They are between 7 y.o. and 16 years old. If I ask them: "What is your name?" They stay out of words just like "frozen fishes". As I speak thai a little bit (hihihi), I asked them: "What your teacher do in english class". And the answer is: "She comes in the class, start to speak and doen't stop for an hour; after she gives us an homework and it is over". I saw those homeworks... really hard to do for those students (read: impossible). I did a few...no comments (it was my writing), nothing, there is no follow throught about the homeworks... I met the english teacher once (a thai girl). She told that she goes on internet sites chatting to improve her english...better go to meet "farangs" who come from english countries: England, USA, Australia et c.. and learn and so, GO BACK TO LEARN HOW TO TEACH! We must say that just few students study and do their homeworks and it is an important part of learning! Don't tell me that I write bad english, I know that already!

The problem is that most teachers (Thai as well as Farang) focus too much on form and structures of the language, which is extremely boring. What Thai students need is conversation lessons focussing on meaning, context and function. A further problem is that (usually native) English teachers forget "grading" their language down. What I have heard from Thai students is that they can't understand their native English teacher because he speaks too fast, and the teacher didn't really check if his students understood what he was saying. Every time I hear the same complaints.

I think that every teacher should at least have a proper degree in the subject they are teaching. However I admit, some still teach in old fashioned ways and have to keep up with new methods. This also counts for the guys who only did a four weeks' training.

[Khun Paul]

Frankie I was not knocking the Thai teachers, and actually I am qualified to teach in the UK and here. So before you start attacking those who post be so very careful.
The Thai system is not being knocked it is being opened out there are so many shortcomings it is hard to determine where to begin, the system is flawed so much so that even GOOD teachers tear their hair out at the general incompetence and corruption that is rife in the system endemic of most of Thai governemental agencies.

But thanks for your views frankie it just goes to show you CANNOT even understand the written word but then I doubt if you are qualified except in B*******, I am always prepared to back myself up but then I have heard you are wonderful person when you are asleep, so say asleep and let who know do ok.

[Frankie 1]

Frankie I was not knocking the Thai teachers, and actually I am qualified to teach in the UK and here. So before you start attacking those who post be so very careful.
The Thai system is not being knocked it is being opened out there are so many shortcomings it is hard to determine where to begin, the system is flawed so much so that even GOOD teachers tear their hair out at the general incompetence and corruption that is rife in the system endemic of most of Thai governemental agencies.

But thanks for your views frankie it just goes to show you CANNOT even understand the written word but then I doubt if you are qualified except in B*******, I am always prepared to back myself up but then I have heard you are wonderful person when you are asleep, so say asleep and let who know do ok.

IMO, constantly focusing on negativity, supposed shortcomings, and supposed incompetence, (and namecalling for that matter), won't make anyone a good teacher in any subject. That's about attitude. Not very constructive in my view. Are you talking to your students, their parents, your employers and your collegues in the same way? Wow, how good must that make you feel. It's all about you then isn't it?

[nongwuasoguy]

THAI SYSTEM SUCCESS: I learned to read thai language with one of my friends's wife. She had passed third grade of the thai government secondary school before going to work in bars. I was quite surprise that she doesn't make mistakes writing her own language. Sometimes, I showed her my thai writing and she told me:"Here, it is wrong, there it is wrong" So I argued because I copied almost each word from the dictionary. But when I have gone back to check it out in my dictionary; every time, I saw that she was WRIGHT! And I went to apologize. At that time, I wrote a few pages each day that she was correcting for me, she was always wright. I was quite surprise because in my country a girl or boy who has completed a third grade in secondary school write, most of the time, awfully. I think that learn english is the most important subject for thai peoples who want to make business or work in any business. As I said to the young peoples in my house's yard (in thai, for sure): " I didn't see ONE shop in Udon Thani that has a notice board saying: We don't want farangs's money!"

[Khun Paul]

Ok gloves off, I di not start this but I will end it, many teachers I know here in sunny Thailand also degry the situation maybe they do not impart their pearls of wisdom to you. it is well known among those who know that the system is seriously flawed, acknowledging that fact is a start to the changes that are needed.
Why else do you think that teachers have be buying diplomas, Thailand is constantly below the internationally recognised benchmarks and why is it that almost every week in one Thai newspaper or another a criticism of something in Education is to be found. Am I not repeating what is common knowledge.
Constantly knocking I am not but merely highlighting the faults can over time lead to improvements. I not concentrating on supposed anything just repeating the facts, which seemed to have gone over your head.
In the not too distant future when the ASEAN doors are openned and the workforce can be as fluid as water then masny Thais while wishing to seek employment outside Thailand will be disadvantaged while Thai employers may find better skilled and highly motivated staff from other countries. it is a sad fact of life , this has been noted at ASEAN education forums that Thailand needs to address the low level of English competence in order to retain any advantage.
In short Thailand Education is the lowest of most ASEAN nations, I need say no more. I think.

[nongwuasoguy]

Khun Paul wrote: "In the not too distant future when the ASEAN doors are openned and the workforce can be as fluid as water then many Thais while wishing to seek employment outside Thailand will be disadvantaged while Thai employers may find better skilled and highly motivated staff from other countries. It is a sad fact of life... " I agree completly with you. Little kids selling books near the Tonle river in Phnom Penh speak beter english than most of the adults in Thailand! And you wrote also: "it is well known among those who know that the system is seriously flawed, acknowledging that fact is a start to the changes that are needed." I hope thai government will read you and will start that changes for the future of so many children.

[Frankie 1]

KP, it's not a p-ssing contest as far as I'm concerned.

The one most important thing I have picked up from my TEFL course in Bkk, was something the principle (mr. Parmelee) of the school told me: "The most important aspect of a teacher is to be humble."

IMO, most Farang teachers in Thailand didn't get that part. As a teacher you are not the most important person. If a teacher thinks he is the most important person, then nobody will learn anything. Their arrogance is usually visible from a mile distance.

I would like to see more cooperation and advise, in stead of competition, complaining and bragging. It would be nice if somebody would post one point in which teachers and teaching could improve. ... to begin with Farang teachers. It's easy to to talk down others, but it would be more honorable to give some advice.

[rufus]

"The TEFL course is a good survival course for beginners, but it won't make you a teacher." A degree in English does not make you a teacher either.

Exactly my point, that's why I was referring to a degree in Education, which most Farang teachers in Thailand don't have.

Perhaps the British system is different. We, (Aust), do a degree and then 1 year teacher training - a post grad diploma. I am of the understanding the Brit system is similar. Anyway even a degree in Education does NOT make you a teacher. Experience, personality, patience a desire to continue learning, compassion - these are the things I consider important in my staff.

[rufus]

"Mr. Parmelee." Frankie, I am sorry to say this really was the wrong person to quote. I am speaking from authority here as I know him well. I will say no more.

KP, I am sure that you know there are some excellent Thai schools as well, and one or two of the universities have a very good reputation. It is not all that bad. A lot of it has to do with teaching methodology. Thai teachers tend to "stand and deliver" or teach from textbooks, ("open your books to page 23 and do exc 5A"). This is not their fault as this is the way they have been taught. Till these issues are addressed, (and they are slooooowly being addressed), things won't change much.

[Frankie 1]

"The TEFL course is a good survival course for beginners, but it won't make you a teacher." A degree in English does not make you a teacher either.

Exactly my point, that's why I was referring to a degree in Education, which most Farang teachers in Thailand don't have.

Perhaps the British system is different. We, (Aust), do a degree and then 1 year teacher training - a post grad diploma. I am of the understanding the Brit system is similar. Anyway even a degree in Education does NOT make you a teacher. Experience, personality, patience a desire to continue learning, compassion - these are the things I consider important in my staff.

In the EU the requirements are the same now in all member states. Minimum requirement is a bachelor degree in education and the major in the subject you are teaching. So a maths teacher should have a B Ed. with maths as major.
An English teacher should have B Ed. with major in English language teaching.

Having a degree in English language plus a graduate diploma in education is not allowed anymore (officially), they have to do additional courses to meet the new requirements.

Due to a teacher shortage, there are of course several teachers teaching who don't meet the official requirements, but that's the same in Thailand (for Thai teachers) as in the EU.

Farang teachers in Thailand can teach with any kind of degree (even one in engineering) and a TEFL-certificate (that's only a 4 weeks' course in teaching English).

[rufus]

"An English teacher should have B Ed. with major in English language teaching."
So is not a BA and a Dip Ed at least the equivalent? I am qualified to teach anywhere in Britain as well as in any EU country. Perhaps we have some confusion over the term "BA". This is NOT a degree in Art. You can have a BA with majors in Maths, Chem, Physics, Political Science, History, Languages etc etc.

[fatbob]

Here here Paul, facts are facts and good to see you speaking openly about serious issues that hopefully will be addressed. Thailand needs to lift as its neighbors are starting to leave it behind, its time they confronted issues and forgot about being humble and losing face.

[Frankie 1]

"Mr. Parmelee." Frankie, I am sorry to say this really was the wrong person to quote. I am speaking from authority here as I know him well. I will say no more.

I know

It was more about the quote than about the man (I am used to reference my sources).

[Frankie 1]

"An English teacher should have B Ed. with major in English language teaching."
So is not a BA and a Dip Ed at least the equivalent? I am qualified to teach anywhere in Britain as well as in any EU country. Perhaps we have some confusion over the term "BA". This is NOT a degree in Art. You can have a BA with majors in Maths, Chem, Physics, Political Science, History, Languages etc etc.

You refer to a BA in English language with graduate diploma in education. There have been concerns about that, stating that in a lot of cases the graduate diploma wasn't thourough/long enough. It was said that some additional courses were needed, depending on the subject or university. The new requirements are B Ed. with major in ELT, but of course those are official requirements, and where teachers are needed, official requirements usually go out the door (in the EU as well as in Thailand).

[nongwuasoguy]

Diploma is just the first step for teaching... Competent teachers know his subject well but also must know how the human brain works when you are in learning process.. competent teacher know psychology and know that each person doesn't learn the same way. They use different strategies to be sure that every student goes from point "A" to "B" as the programm proposes. They take students where they are, not where they are supposed to be! They feel good with themselves and are patient... They propose exercices that will help to learn more and better and give feed back on every learning. They are professionnal and severe wanting the best for the students...

[Frankie 1]

Diploma is just the first step for teaching... Competent teachers know his subject well but also must know how the human brain works when you are in learning process.. competent teacher know psychology and know that each person doesn't learn the same way. They use different strategies to be sure that every student goes from point "A" to "B" as the programm proposes. They take students where they are, not where they are supposed to be! They feel good with themselves and are patient... They propose exercices that will help to learn more and better and give feed back on every learning. They are professionnal and severe wanting the best for the students...

Well said.

And:
Be able to look at himself or herself critically in order to learn and develop as a teacher. Know how to work with kids and teenagers, have knowledge about developmental psychology. Be able to do a needs analysis and adapt curriculum. Be able to differentiate. And one of the more important things, have a sense of humour. As a teacher you have to be a bit tingtong.

[Khun Paul]

Frankie I have no idea what your qualifications if any you have but you seem to wander about with your perception of teachers in general. Most teachers know full well that starting to teach is not teaching but only experience will enable them to progress up the ladder so to speak.
many teachers I know advance themselves by acquiring more qualifications along the way, BA's in Education and other core subjects are a means to an end not necessarily the requirement upon a first appointment . Most educational establishments I know ( not here I admit ) not only look at the qualifications but also the person . A good teacher is not necessarily the best qualified but one with a broad spectrum of skills like communication and empathy with the students no matter what age.
Unfortunately here due to the lax requirements many a foreign teacher seem to think that a TEFL ( if got here ) is a means to an end. Most good TEFL qualifications are gained outside this country, as here attendance and payment is the only requirement to get one, in Europe and elsewhere a fairly stiff examination process is gone through before one is awarded a certificate of any sort. That is coupled with any other qualifications one may have and goes together with an Internationally recognised recommendation to possible employers backed by the Educational Institute itself. In many countries of the world. A TEFL gained in Thailand is really only good enough for Thailand as can be seen by the superb skills gained by Thai students in English at least. One need not say too much more on this subject apart from some months ago I did a personal survey by ringing up possible employers who demanded a fairly high level in English for a possible applicant, needless to say only one out of nearly fifty even understood a simple question in English, so how they can possibly recruit English speakers when they do not even know enough themselves is beyond me, one could answer in Swahili and they would probably say YES. !!!!

[Frankie 1]

If you go to Holland with a TEFL certificate (from any country), they will laugh in your face. A certificate isn't even a diploma.

While being in Thailand doing the TEFL course four years ago, and meeting several Farang "teachers" there, I immediately saw that a 4 weeks' course doesn't educate anybody in any field properly (there simply isn't enough time). That's why I went back to Holland to study for a proper degree.

I keep an academic standpoint. Next month I have to go to the hospital for surgery. The surgeon has a proper degree, I am glad that she wasn't hired because of her nice personality.

Further I am a massage therapist. I am used to the people who did a short massage course somewhere, and after doing the short course, suddenly think they are God and think they know it all.

But when you take the time to really study more and longer, the more you learn, the more you realize that in fact you don't know anything at all. That's also a thing I like about Buddhism. It's also why I referred to being humble.

If you don't get that, then I'm sorry for you.

[Frankie 1]

A good teacher is not necessarily the best qualified but one with a broad spectrum of skills like communication and empathy with the students no matter what age.

Nowadays, in Europe the study is competence based. Which basically means that when your personality sucks, you don't have a broad spectrum of skills like communication and empathy with the students no matter what age, you won't pass certain competence tests, and won't get a degree. So the things you mention are part of the basic curriculum and are part of being qualified in the first place.

[Frankie 1]

nongwuasoguy wrote: "Competent teachers know his subject well but also must know how the human brain works when you are in learning process.. competent teacher know psychology and know that each person doesn't learn the same way. They use different strategies to be sure that every student goes from point "A" to "B" as the programm proposes. They take students where they are, not where they are supposed to be! They feel good with themselves and are patient... They propose exercices that will help to learn more and better and give feed back on every learning. They are professionnal and severe wanting the best for the students."

rFankie 1 wrote: "Be able to look at himself or herself critically in order to learn and develop as a teacher. Know how to work with kids and teenagers, have knowledge about developmental psychology. Be able to do a needs analysis and adapt curriculum. Be able to differentiate."

Khun Paul wrote: "...one with a broad spectrum of skills like communication and empathy with the students no matter what age."

These are all basic parts/requirements of a basic bachelor in education program. Without this you wont get a degree.

If this is/was not part of your curriculum/study/qualifications, you have some catching up to do. Basically it means that you are underqualified.