Teaching in Udon Thani
Teaching
It would be great to hear about some of the successful English teaching to Thai students accomplished by some of you.Instead of arguing the qualifications.talk about your results here in Thailand and how those who have children in school can benefit!
Teaching
I agree. I work in Holland and am on summer holiday, so I can't comment on me teaching in Thailand (wink wink).nkstan wrote:It would be great to hear about some of the successful English teaching to Thai students accomplished by some of you.Instead of arguing the qualifications.talk about your results here in Thailand and how those who have children in school can benefit!
However, I already wrote something about focussing on meaning in stead of focussing on form. Meaningful tasks in reallife situations motivates them. Give them a purpose to speak, and they will speak, have a lot of fun and have to cope with the way they formulate their own sentences. Don't be afraid to let them have a go at it themselves, they can do more than you think once they open up. They had enough form and stucture lessons already and it didn't bring them anything, only makes them afraid to make mistakes and makes them freeze up.
Some positive reports would be nice. Reports, advice, techniques, etc.
What do others do to motivate those kids and get them to interact in a meaningful way.
By the way Thai teachers are changing their methods rapidly, partly because of the good influence of Teachers.tv, which is quite popular in Thailand.
Teaching
Ok Stan, there are many many students which do benefit from good Thai and good foreign teachers, however to actually point a finger to suggest which students are successful is hard.
I have met some of my previous students and they seem to be getting on well, however as in many cases even if they are successful at school some of them do bemoan the teachers at Universities . I know of one who went on to get a MA at a NZ University but that in fact is rare. many fall by the wayside due to the cultural differences like marriage at a young age due to family pressure, having to deal with family problems due to many unforeseen circumstance ( often happens to one child families ) , and the normal one for girls at any rate, dropped out due to pregnancy. It is the girls who if they manage to overcome all the previous probelms who become more successful as boys tend to go down the age old path of mediocrity coupled with at least one to two years due to the anciant Thai conscription laws, meaning that at their most difficult period they are thrust into the Armed forces with out any care about their future lives by the authorities.
I have met some of my previous students and they seem to be getting on well, however as in many cases even if they are successful at school some of them do bemoan the teachers at Universities . I know of one who went on to get a MA at a NZ University but that in fact is rare. many fall by the wayside due to the cultural differences like marriage at a young age due to family pressure, having to deal with family problems due to many unforeseen circumstance ( often happens to one child families ) , and the normal one for girls at any rate, dropped out due to pregnancy. It is the girls who if they manage to overcome all the previous probelms who become more successful as boys tend to go down the age old path of mediocrity coupled with at least one to two years due to the anciant Thai conscription laws, meaning that at their most difficult period they are thrust into the Armed forces with out any care about their future lives by the authorities.
Teaching
I am sorry KP - up to now i agreed with a lot of what you are saying. However these quotes from your long post are absolute nonsense. There are some excellent TEFL courses in Thailand. There are a great many poor ones as well; however to lump the good and the poor together is a gross generalisation, and a very silly one.Khun Paul wrote:snipped
Unfortunately here due to the lax requirements many a foreign teacher seem to think that a TEFL ( if got here ) is a means to an end. Most good TEFL qualifications are gained outside this country, as here attendance and payment is the only requirement to get one
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A TEFL gained in Thailand is really only good enough for Thailand as can be seen by the superb skills gained by Thai students in English at least.
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Teaching
It seems to me that the debate about qualifications to teach English in the Thai public school system is almost a mute point from my experience with our attempts to find ''good'' schools during my step daughters schooling.In the beginning when the children are in the lower grades.there is a notable grasps of the alphabet,some basic greetings for conversation and a few names of objects and animals.
After that ,the same conversation words are repeatedly taught,mainly because there is no practice of what was previously learned.This goes on several grades until the textbooks and handouts that are primarily for homework(not really taught in class) become incomprehensible with vocabulary far past any previous instruction or study.What class teaching structure that remains is dumbed down to the class levels which are next to nil in English language ability,ridiculous outside interviews with falangs by groups of students that.at best.might have some minimal reading English language ability,but can not understand replies by the foreigner(I experienced this today in a 15 min.''interview'' with 6 young ladies from a vocational school).
Those students with some English language skills because they come from a household that primarily speaks English,start digressing in those skills in their teenage years because of the natural lessening of communication with parents as they increase there social communication with their teenage peers that only speak Thai.High school becomes a copying of homework,cheating on tests etc. etc.
I would ask all the teachers ,and parents ,on UM,tell us of any students they know that have benefited from English instruction within the Thai school system through high school.After 12 years they can not hold a reasonable conversation in English!
After that ,the same conversation words are repeatedly taught,mainly because there is no practice of what was previously learned.This goes on several grades until the textbooks and handouts that are primarily for homework(not really taught in class) become incomprehensible with vocabulary far past any previous instruction or study.What class teaching structure that remains is dumbed down to the class levels which are next to nil in English language ability,ridiculous outside interviews with falangs by groups of students that.at best.might have some minimal reading English language ability,but can not understand replies by the foreigner(I experienced this today in a 15 min.''interview'' with 6 young ladies from a vocational school).
Those students with some English language skills because they come from a household that primarily speaks English,start digressing in those skills in their teenage years because of the natural lessening of communication with parents as they increase there social communication with their teenage peers that only speak Thai.High school becomes a copying of homework,cheating on tests etc. etc.
I would ask all the teachers ,and parents ,on UM,tell us of any students they know that have benefited from English instruction within the Thai school system through high school.After 12 years they can not hold a reasonable conversation in English!
Teaching
Rufus that may be so, but with r4espect the post was really about generalisations, there may be some ( I mean some ) good TEFL courses, but my experience is that most Farang teachers I have met if they have a TEFL get it from a 4 week course which would give them a Certificate whether they were good or not.
The real problem is that while Thailand wants its students to excell at English in order for them to be able to pursue further education elsewhere or even to seek and get a well paid job using their Englsih skills, the sad fact is that unlike the new measures setting a benchmark for not only Thai but also Maths and the Sciences, English does not get a mention hence it is paid lip service by the current establishment.
No matter how we dress it up English is a poor relation in teaching circles and is paid scant attention.
Anmother interesting fact is that many students I have met learn CVomputor Studies and in some cases Accountancy and other business studies utilising English or in some cases purely Thai, but then the Tests/Exams are held in English, the poor student really has no idea what is going on. last night I was shown a Accoutancy project which detailed quite explicitly the workings of a small business in the USA, listing pitfalls and cask flows and the meaning of Money in the business world. Now considering I am English I found it quite detailed and I had to read it at least three to four times to understand the reasoning and in some cases the points being made. The student a mere 24 year old did not even understand the first page let alone would she be able to write a Treatise on the subject , which was what was required.
Eventually Thais will understand speech although important reading and comprehension is equally so otherwise all that grammar is simply lost on the students.
The real problem is that while Thailand wants its students to excell at English in order for them to be able to pursue further education elsewhere or even to seek and get a well paid job using their Englsih skills, the sad fact is that unlike the new measures setting a benchmark for not only Thai but also Maths and the Sciences, English does not get a mention hence it is paid lip service by the current establishment.
No matter how we dress it up English is a poor relation in teaching circles and is paid scant attention.
Anmother interesting fact is that many students I have met learn CVomputor Studies and in some cases Accountancy and other business studies utilising English or in some cases purely Thai, but then the Tests/Exams are held in English, the poor student really has no idea what is going on. last night I was shown a Accoutancy project which detailed quite explicitly the workings of a small business in the USA, listing pitfalls and cask flows and the meaning of Money in the business world. Now considering I am English I found it quite detailed and I had to read it at least three to four times to understand the reasoning and in some cases the points being made. The student a mere 24 year old did not even understand the first page let alone would she be able to write a Treatise on the subject , which was what was required.
Eventually Thais will understand speech although important reading and comprehension is equally so otherwise all that grammar is simply lost on the students.
Teaching
"A man's errors are his portals of discovery." (James Joyce)
The main problems for Thai people with learning English are the lack of exposure to the language outside the classroom (Harry Potter only speaks Thai), the lack of confidence of using the language, and the fear of making a mistake.
This can rusult in "avoidance behaviour" (as they call it in second language learning research).
In the classroom most Thai students learn the right structures, but don't learn to use them. So they start thinking:
"I mustn’t speak unless I know for sure what I’m going to say is absolutely right."
"My teacher isn’t listening to me, but to my language."
Although a lot of students have actually learned a lot of English already, they never use it in daily life, never hear it in daily life, and when somebody suddenly starts speaking to them in English their reaction is pure panic.
However, this doesn't mean that they are stupid.
The main problems for Thai people with learning English are the lack of exposure to the language outside the classroom (Harry Potter only speaks Thai), the lack of confidence of using the language, and the fear of making a mistake.
This can rusult in "avoidance behaviour" (as they call it in second language learning research).
In the classroom most Thai students learn the right structures, but don't learn to use them. So they start thinking:
"I mustn’t speak unless I know for sure what I’m going to say is absolutely right."
"My teacher isn’t listening to me, but to my language."
Although a lot of students have actually learned a lot of English already, they never use it in daily life, never hear it in daily life, and when somebody suddenly starts speaking to them in English their reaction is pure panic.
However, this doesn't mean that they are stupid.
Teaching
First of all, there has to be a reason/purpose for them to use English, otherwise they won't. And they are not able to understand an English speaking person, bacause they aren't used to hearing one.nkstan wrote:I would ask all the teachers ,and parents ,on UM,tell us of any students they know that have benefited from English instruction within the Thai school system through high school.After 12 years they can not hold a reasonable conversation in English!
I saw good results in the international faculty of Ramkhamhaeng university when I was there last year. All degrre courses are in English (and more or less at Western level) and Thai isn't allowed in the classroom.
When the Thai students arrive there for their first semester of study, they are in shock and awe. But after a couple of weeks/months they are already able to keep up with the other (international) students ...because they have to.
Teaching
Well KP, I taught in Thailand and teach in Lao. All the lessons in our school are in English. We have had some Lao students get scholarships to the London School of Eco and Political Science, numerous universities in Australia, Canad and the States.
Teaching
They have to pass the TOEFL to gain entrance into the International faculty,which is very difficult for Thai students to do unless they have been in International schools prior to entering University.The have Intensive English classes for students unable to pass the TOEFL.But it seems most keep taking these IE classes for a long time before their English is at a level that will allow them to learn from English language instruction only.Frankie 1 wrote:First of all, there has to be a reason/purpose for them to use English, otherwise they won't. And they are not able to understand an English speaking person, bacause they aren't used to hearing one.nkstan wrote:I would ask all the teachers ,and parents ,on UM,tell us of any students they know that have benefited from English instruction within the Thai school system through high school.After 12 years they can not hold a reasonable conversation in English!
I saw good results in the international faculty of Ramkhamhaeng university when I was there last year. All degrre courses are in English (and more or less at Western level) and Thai isn't allowed in the classroom.
When the Thai students arrive there for their first semester of study, they are in shock and awe. But after a couple of weeks/months they are already able to keep up with the other (international) students ...because they have to.
My 19 yr. old stepdaughter has failed the TOEFL two times.even though she studies English 5 hours a day.A student that hasn't been instructed in English through High school,doesn't have an academic vocabulary sufficient for learning at University level instruction in English and knows nothing about writing papers!
Teaching
"They have to pass the TOEFL to gain entrance into the International faculty"
This is not quite correct on a number of grounds. There is no "pass" to TOEFL; you get a score which is required for tertiary entrance. Further TOEFL is not the only accepted test score. Finally, if students get a good score on the ICGSE or A or AS levels in English, (if the school offers these courses), this is also accepted as university entrance qualifications.
This is not quite correct on a number of grounds. There is no "pass" to TOEFL; you get a score which is required for tertiary entrance. Further TOEFL is not the only accepted test score. Finally, if students get a good score on the ICGSE or A or AS levels in English, (if the school offers these courses), this is also accepted as university entrance qualifications.