Orchestra conductor criticises air security

[JimboPSM]

Last night was the "Last Night of the Proms" a very traditional British occasion.

At the close of the evening the guest conductor always gives a short entertaining talk - last night however, the plight of musicians following the recent draconian restrictions on hand baggage was highlighted in his talk.

From BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5331694.stm

Conductor criticises air security

UK security measures that prevent musicians from taking instruments on board planes as hand luggage have been criticised by a leading conductor.

Mark Elder - a guest conductor for the BBC Symphony Orchestra - made the criticism in a speech on the Last Night of the Proms at the Royal Albert Hall.

He said performers faced "enormous difficulty" as a result of the policy.

Last month the Musicians' Union said the security measures were having a "devastating impact" on musicians.

It says its members "are reporting significant lost earnings" because they are unable to travel with their instruments as hand luggage.

EU discussions

Mr Elder's comments come as experts meet for talks on airport security in London and Toronto this week.

The European Union nations have held discussions on limiting the size of permitted hand luggage although no decision has been made.

Under current rules, passengers flying out of UK airports are allowed one item of cabin baggage, which must be no larger than a laptop computer bag.

Travellers flying into the UK from international destinations, including the US, are not subject to the same restrictions on the size of cabin baggage.

"It is now effectively impossible for musicians to travel by air"
Musical artists' letter to the Times

Passengers would, however, be required to adhere to the UK government-imposed guidelines on their return journeys.

Criticism of the security measures has also been made by leading musical artists, including conductor Sir Colin Davis and cellists Julian Lloyd Webber and Ralph Kirshbaum.

In a letter to the Times newspaper on Friday they said the UK's "enviable position" as a "great" international centre for music and the arts was under threat.

"It is now effectively impossible for musicians to travel by air, since there is no way that priceless 18th Century violins or cellos, for example, can ever travel without unacceptable risk in the hold of an aircraft," they said.

'Concerto for Laptop'

A spokeswoman at the Department for Transport said instruments would have to be checked into the hold until the security situation was downgraded.

"I think we would all agree that the time has come really to put an end to this unfairness"
Mark Elder, Conductor

But many instruments are too fragile to go in the hold, the Musicians' Union told BBC News.

An early casualty of the restriction was New York's Orchestra of St Luke's, which cancelled an Edinburgh Festival concert and a BBC Proms appearance.

And Russian musicians returning from London after the Bolshoi Theatre's season in the capital had to travel overland on the Eurostar via Paris to fly home.

They were under contract to keep their instruments with them and could not check them in as hold baggage, chief conductor Alexander Vedernikov said.

Speaking on Saturday, Mr Elder said: "The one aspect of the situation that really affects us here on the platform [and that] is the enormous difficulty that so many musicians are having at the moment in travelling by plane into this country and out of it."

He said the situation was "greatly to be regretted".

"I think we would all agree that the time has come really to put an end to this unfairness," he added.

"Otherwise it seems to me that next year we should all look forward to 'Concerto for Laptop and Orchestra'."

The Department for Transport has said the security regulations would "be in place for as long as they need to be".

• IMHO yet another example where we the public have become the victims of the total bureaucratic stupidity and inflexibility of Tony and his cronies

[banpaeng]

I agree that some of these rules are quite inconvient but I would rather that than to start giving in to this group or the other. I was in the states when the last attempt was made and was with a VP of a European company. He had traveled to the States with his laptop and had to go back through London on his way home. Needless to say he had quite a bit of info stored on the computer. He was quite concerned and felt very bad. He bought a storage outside his computer but was not allowed to take that on as no hand bags at all. He had to take his chances. I felt sorry for him but on the same token I am glad he was made to follow the rules.

I for one am against carryon period unless it is started to abide by the regs. The state of carryon luggage is atrocious. I try to not carry any except my meds. In saying that, the airlines need to be made more accountable for our luggage. I have traveled quite a few places and when I go to pick up my bag, no one checks to see if I have ther right one or not.

As for not being able to carry on their instruments, It is sad that it happens but better them to be sad than my family due to me being blown up in an airplane.

I agree with Dakota, strip everyone and give them paper coveralls. In my case need a real big set.

[BKKSTAN]

Nobody likes the personal inconvenience brought about by the ''needed',IMO, increased security!One mistake is all it takes!Times have changed and the security needs of the public outweigh individual desires!

[Dakoda]

I agree with Dakota, strip everyone and give them paper coveralls. In my case need a real big set.

whoa there cowboy

That was tongue-in-cheek.

There are too many ways that they can make the cockpit door secure! This is just another form of stupidity, and I and many others did not ask for or want this false security

[JimboPSM]

Nobody likes the personal inconvenience brought about by the ''needed',IMO, increased security!One mistake is all it takes!Times have changed and the security needs of the public outweigh individual desires!

I don't have a problem with increased security per se, but I do I have a problem with the absolute inflexibility, arrogance and stupidity of the authorities and their inability to apply that increased security with any form of common sense; every time they use a huge sledgehammer to crack a tiny nut.

As an example, look at the how the authorities (UK & US) kowtow to all the objectors to any kind to profiling.

IMHO, the UK, US (and probably many other) Governments are intent on creating and maintaining a state of fear in their citizens, in that way they can control and repress our individual freedoms and divert attention from their colossal incompetence and abject failure to protect us.

[Dakoda]

IMHO, the UK, US (and probably many other) Governments are intent on creating and maintaining a state of fear in their citizens, in that way they can control and repress our individual freedoms and divert attention from their colossal incompetence and abject failure to protect us.

Sad, but so true

[banpaeng]

Dakota, mine was meant the same way about the paper coveralls I forget to put in those darn smiley things.

I do agree with you on false security and incompetent govt. however you have to start somewhere. One of the problems is that so few educated folks vote and a vast majority of uneducated do vote. This needs to change.

Off my soapbox now.

[BKKSTAN]

Nobody likes the personal inconvenience brought about by the ''needed',IMO, increased security!One mistake is all it takes!Times have changed and the security needs of the public outweigh individual desires!

I don't have a problem with increased security per se, but I do I have a problem with the absolute inflexibility, arrogance and stupidity of the authorities and their inability to apply that increased security with any form of common sense; every time they use a huge sledgehammer to crack a tiny nut.

As an example, look at the how the authorities (UK & US) kowtow to all the objectors to any kind to profiling.

IMHO, the UK, US (and probably many other) Governments are intent on creating and maintaining a state of fear in their citizens, in that way they can control and repress our individual freedoms and divert attention from their colossal incompetence and abject failure to protect us.

I definitely empathize with your feelings about the authorities,but again,I would rather face the ''sledgehammer''than the bomb!
I also think that racial profiling is not and can not be ruled out in todays world with the problems involving suicide bombers that are seemingly middle Eastern in appearance!
Yes,individual freedoms are being eroded!We have to change with the times!IMO,It is not negative to go in a direction that benefits most people!And ,IMO,it is selfish for individuals to put their personal comfort ahead of the safety of millions!I am sorry for the Middle Eastern peoples that have to go through the emotional feelings involved in racial profiling!But,IMO, they are not blameless for this predicament.They have given ''passive'' support to the rise of ''extremists'' that commit these terrorist acts by not trying to oppose them before they grew into the majority!Though,not any more responsible, than the Western policies that might have given impetus to the creation of these maniacs!

I agree with you about Gov'ts diverting public veiw away from their failures.IMO,it has always been that way.Superegos always run Gov'ts!Let's hope not in this case because to fail,IMO,will change the balance of power in the world and bring us closer to Nuclear Holocaust.

[Dakoda]

Dakota, mine was meant the same way about the paper coveralls I forget to put in those darn smiley things.

Sorry, but smiley face or not, I got your point from what was written above the quote from me, which seemed to take my quote serious. Guess I do forget that you know me!

so, please excuse me, but I am still recovering from the chinese fire drill

[Alagrl]

All I know is that I'm flying to New Orleans this week and can't carry my lipstick on the plane.

[banpaeng]

We flew the last week in August in the States and lipstick was ok unless liquid. Stick lipstick ok. Wife carried it with no problem.

[JimboPSM]

All I know is that I'm flying to New Orleans this week and can't carry my lipstick on the plane.

..... would that be on a flying boat?

[BKKSTAN]

All I know is that I'm flying to New Orleans this week and can't carry my lipstick on the plane.

Really?What if you took out of its case and carried it in a baggie? What if you smeared it,real thick,onto something you carry,then transfered to your lips as needed wear a black hood over your face.That will scare them and nobody will notice that you don't have on fresh lipstick Tell them I said it was OK to carry it because I think you are a very nice person!They should make allowances for nice people

[beer monkey]

All I know is that I'm flying to New Orleans this week and can't carry my lipstick on the plane.

what is a gal to do....

why don't you put extra amounts on before you get on board. (just an idea of coarse)

[Alagrl]

All I know is that I'm flying to New Orleans this week and can't carry my lipstick on the plane.

what is a gal to do....

why don't you put extra amounts on before you get on board. (just an idea of coarse)

Ain't it the truth!!

Extra might work on a one-hour flight to New Orleans -- probably wouldn't help on those god-awful treks to Thailand.

[jacko]

i recently returned from a weeks holiday in marmaris turkey after flying out of manchester with all the security measures in place as this was only two days old at the time(the hand luggage senario) that is i was amazed,on my return to england un beneown to me my friendly waiter had put two branded pint pot glasses in my hand luggage as a souvineer.i passed two x ray machines at bodrum airport boarded the plane and arrived back in the uk with restrictions still in place and glasses still in my hand luggage.now i am certainly not tarring everyone with the same brush but this was a muslem country and two days after my return in the very same resort bombs go off,so much for vigilance the world over.

[BKKSTAN]

i recently returned from a weeks holiday in marmaris turkey after flying out of manchester with all the security measures in place as this was only two days old at the time(the hand luggage senario) that is i was amazed,on my return to england un beneown to me my friendly waiter had put two branded pint pot glasses in my hand luggage as a souvineer.i passed two x ray machines at bodrum airport boarded the plane and arrived back in the uk with restrictions still in place and glasses still in my hand luggage.now i am certainly not tarring everyone with the same brush but this was a muslem country and two days after my return in the very same resort bombs go off,so much for vigilance the world over.

Least you weren't inconvenienced,but the price could have been high!.Laxes in Airport security are scarey during these times!
It just occurred to me,that I would bet,people that have experienced close encounters with terrorists or bomb incidents,don't complain as much about increased security!IMO,most people that really complain are emotionally detached from the real pain and destruction of lives involved in terrorist attacks!