Deaths in Bangkok

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nkstan
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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by nkstan » May 23, 2010, 10:58 am

Tilokarat wrote:Along with the PAD leadership and hirelings, I presume.
Especially those that inciting,financed and urged their followers to destroy and burn down the Nation!

Who do you put on that list,Tilokarat?

Quite a difference in my estimation,although I support prosecuting the Pad leaders for civil disruption and disobedience laws,I think the country was saved from a dictatorship by their actions.But I am also not so naive that I believe those Elite are any less corrupt,greedy and opportunistic for their own gain!The problem lies with the fact that some of those ''Yellows'' are part of the present gov't,and it is very difficult to get any sitting gov't to prosecute themselves!

Comparing the two factions goals and violence is ridiculous,as is justifying the Reds actions because of the PADS actions prior.Like blaming the gov't for the deaths incurred while trying to do there job or not capitulating to the demands of Thaksin and the Red leadership,which had nothing to do with the issues of the rural majority that made up the mass of the demonstrators!

In relation to prosecuting ''hirelings'',I would limit that prosecution to those paid to lead ,not assemble and those the murdered and wantonly destroyed property!Although the latter group should get probationary sentences,if found guilty as they were really manipulated pawns!



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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by jackspratt » May 23, 2010, 11:30 am

nkstan wrote:The problem lies with the fact that some of those ''Yellows'' are part of the present gov't,and it is very difficult to get any sitting gov't to prosecute themselves!
Disclaimer! I am no supporter of the Yellows, and believe the leaders of the demonstrations and airport occupation (plus any of the yellow thugs they can find) ought to be expeditiously dealt with by the legal system. A number have been charged, but clearly things are moving too slowly - giving the Reds a genuine grievance.

Having said that - and the main point of my post - I understand that Kasit (the Foreign Minister) is the only person in the current government who can be directly and publicly associated with the Yellows, to the extent he made a speech (or maybe several) when the Yellow stage was set up in the middle of Bangkok.

If the government was full of (infected with :D ) Yellows, why would they bother to set up their own political party?

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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » May 24, 2010, 5:16 am


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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by nkstan » May 24, 2010, 7:26 am

jackspratt wrote:
nkstan wrote:The problem lies with the fact that some of those ''Yellows'' are part of the present gov't,and it is very difficult to get any sitting gov't to prosecute themselves!
Disclaimer! I am no supporter of the Yellows, and believe the leaders of the demonstrations and airport occupation (plus any of the yellow thugs they can find) ought to be expeditiously dealt with by the legal system. A number have been charged, but clearly things are moving too slowly - giving the Reds a genuine grievance.

Having said that - and the main point of my post - I understand that Kasit (the Foreign Minister) is the only person in the current government who can be directly and publicly associated with the Yellows, to the extent he made a speech (or maybe several) when the Yellow stage was set up in the middle of Bangkok.

If the government was full of (infected with :D ) Yellows, why would they bother to set up their own political party?
''Some'',does not constitute an ''infection''!But overall the present gov't was supported by the ''yellows''!I personally,think the ''yelllows'' forming their own pary, indicates a positive for the present PM as to the fact that he is not catering to the whims of either groups elitist leadership!Since he is the head of a coalition gov't,the difficulty in managing the country has to be an enormous task!

I am not privy to whether or not he is a typical corrupt Thai politician or not,but his manner , education and skillful balancing of all the power factions,has been a marvel to me.Because,IMO,there are no clear visionary untainted replacement selection available,I hope he is able to stay the PM.I think he will be good for the country and will be supportive of the needs of the rural majority unlike the present leadership of the rural majority that only use them for their personal gains!

My heart tells me that this country is so corrupt,has power factions that will never allow him to be fruitful.I actually fear that he will be assassinated by one of these groups,if he is the genuine article and ever is in a position show it!

The patronage,corrupt power elite will not allow the changes necessary for the majority poor to break the class infected economic and political barriers!They will never allow changes to real education and infrastructure reform,reform of the Army and police factions,nepotism and patronage systems,teacher and school administrative reforms,etc.etc.!They will continue to blather about reforms,but will only throw money at them while profiting and ignoring the real changes needed!

Very pessimistic I know,but those are my opinions from my time here,it is a sad state indeed,but this is Thailand with a goofy smile that has been propagandized into a National identity of gentleness,acceptance and genuine friendliness,none which are true of the Nation!

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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » June 1, 2010, 5:03 am


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Re: Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » June 6, 2010, 5:22 am


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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by jackspratt » December 7, 2011, 8:44 pm

Some positive news (at least for the moment) about one of the most notorious red shirts, who had been on the run (read Cambodia) since the tragic events of early/mid last year.

This is the guy who stood on the stage in (I think) Korat, and implored the red shirts to bring empty bottles to Bangkok to make molotovs, and said they should burn Bangkok down - or if they couldn't make it, the regional buildings would do.
Arisman denied bail

The Criminal Court on Wednesday denied a request for the release on bail of prominent red-shirt figure Arisman Pongruangrong.

Mr Arisman surrendered to the Department of Special Investigation this morning to fight terrorism charges.

The DSI later handed over him to the prosecution, which subsequently filed the case with the Criminal Court without offerring an objection to Mr Arisman's being released on bail on the ground that he surrendered voluntarily.

Mr Arisman's lawyer then applied for bail, offering 1.2 million baht as surety.

The court rejected the bail request, reasoning that Mr Arisman could flee or meddle with evidence, since he is also wanted in many other cases each carrying a high penalty............

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... enied-bail

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by trubrit » December 8, 2011, 8:23 am

No doubt about it, a madman rebel rouser who deserves what ever is coming to him.Lets just hope that after, Suthep, today, and Abhisit , tomorrow, are questioned by the CSI more light can be shown on who ordered the army to shoot, killing over 90 civilians including this guy , Italian photographer Fabio.
image-91004-panoV9free-igdq.jpg
As well as the army sponsored assassination of General Daeng.
A reminder of that terrible day from De Spiegel.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 22,00.html
Ageing is a privilige denied to many .

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by jackspratt » December 8, 2011, 9:15 am

trubrit wrote:..........Lets just hope that after, Suthep, today, and Abhisit , tomorrow, are questioned by the CSI .........
Already in hand I believe, Val.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... ver-deaths
...... more light can be shown on who ordered the army to shoot, killing over 90 civilians.............
I think it is pretty clear by now that it wasn't just the army doing the shooting (and grenading etc), and also, not all of the 90 dead were civilians.

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » December 8, 2011, 12:43 pm

Keep trying Jack, you may convince one more Person that the Women and Children in the Red Shirt Camp were all Terrorists and Murderers and the Army were all Angels :D

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by jackspratt » December 8, 2011, 12:47 pm

Before I keep trying Aa, perhaps you can point out where I first tried. :-k

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » December 8, 2011, 12:55 pm

Well let's face it, you've had little or no sympathy for the Red Camp even in the face of evidence past of Murder by the Troops. I remember one member posting a Youtube Vid where a Soldier asked permission to shoot a Reporter he had in his sights. The answer was no, but then a Reporter was there recording the whole thing. Wonder what the answer would have been under different surcumstances. Best ask one Japanese and one Italian ??

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by Aardvark » August 7, 2013, 5:27 am


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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by FrazeeDK » August 7, 2013, 7:11 am

the reality is that the events in 2010 could have been far worse. If the military had been less restrained, hundreds if not thousands would have died. Same on the Red side. IF, the Reds had all the weapons cached the government claimed they could easily have killed hundreds of soldiers.. The entire demonstration was wholly political in nature, a tug of war between the Taksin camp and the Democrats/military. Abhisit stated he was ready to offer early dissolution of parliament and elections in the November/December 2010 time frame (doesn't mean he really would have done it). The key Red leaders were willing to go along with it.. They were sacked, supposedly on Taksin's orders and the more radical Reds put in charge.

It is easy to see the just the overall picture of what happened. For the most part, we're not privy to the hidden machinations that are part of nearly everything that goes on over here...

You'll note that the current government learned well the lessons of 2010. They do NOT allow opposition groups to take over areas within the city and restrict the flow of "protesters" into the city for scheduled protest gatherings. I'm sure that the Democrats wish they'd done the same back in 2009 and 2010.
Dave

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by jackspratt » August 7, 2013, 8:33 am

FrazeeDK wrote: You'll note that the current government learned well the lessons of 2010. They do NOT allow opposition groups to take over areas within the city and restrict the flow of "protesters" into the city for scheduled protest gatherings. I'm sure that the Democrats wish they'd done the same back in 2009 and 2010.
From memory, one of the big differences today is that the police are (thankfully) actually doing the job that they are paid for - in stark contrast to the earlier events, when they sat on their hands (including the airport takeovers), thereby forcing the government to use the military.

What was the cause of this earlier dereliction by the police? Again, one of the wonders of wheels within wheels in Thailand. :confused:

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Deaths in Bangkok

Post by FrazeeDK » August 7, 2013, 7:26 pm

aha!! My first comment... All political.. The powers that be shift left, shift right based on their perceptions of who might win the confrontation or..... how much they put in their pockets... During the PAD takeover of Swampy, the government asked the military to intervene. They refused to get involved. During the 2010 Red Shirt occupation of various areas of the city, the Police did not act in a forcible manner against the Reds. For the military it depended upon the unit.. Hence the nickname Dang-Mo (green on the outside, Red on the inside) given to some elements of the military back then. At the conclusion of the Red Shirt "uprising" in 2010 the Royal Thai Police had at least 600 riot police fully equipped residing in the school, gym and senior's hall in Lumpini Park at the height of the Red Shirt occupation of Rajaprasong.. Magically, they disappeared about 3-4 days prior to the May 19th, 2010 push of the military against the Red Shirts.. Their decamping from Lumpini allowed the Red Shirt to occupy this key buffer zone and engage the military for several days in a back and forth sniping... That said, I walked through Lumpini Park on 21 May, 2010 (it was completely empty with only the Rama V entrance open) specifically looking for any gunshot damage to trees, light poles, statues, et al... I only saw a couple of instances of gunfire damage.. My conclusion.... The Thai Military was not firing nearly as much as the news media seemed to show...

Again, we're NOT privy to the inside machinations of Thai politics.. Note the current collegial relationship between the PM and the Head of the Thai Army...
Dave

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