Gall Stone Discovered...What To Do!

[semperfiguy]

Today I went for the SILVER Health Check-Up at Panyavejinter Hospital Udon Thani (formerly Paulo), and after having performed an ultra-sound on the upper abdomen area, a gall stone 1.5 cm. in size was discovered. The doctor who reviewed my diagnostics gave me one opinion which made it sound not too serious, but sent me on to a specialist who does a LAPAROSCOPIC surgery with only two small incisions to remove the gall bladder. Anticipated cost at Paulo is 55-60,000 baht. I don't know much about this type of surgery, but will begin now to scan the internet for all the details and options. Has anyone out there had this surgery in Thailand, more particularly Udon, who might be able to coach me along as I decide what steps to take next. I got what I considered mixed advice from both doctors. The surgeon says the stone could block the exit bile duct and cause an inflammation and ultimate rupture, but I could go 2-3 years and nothing could happen...so it's "up to me"! Any further advice from someone that's "been there and done that" would be greatly appreciated.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Cash in your gold, and get the thing removed.

[pienmash]

I went to the same hossy had the full check up same result , gall stone refered to specialist quoted same for removal using same method or the old fashion 8' gash ......... same advice however i went on a strict diet as i had apeptic ulcer as well ,, i checked round a few other hospitals and got the op priced at 25-30k same job and i was advised to go to the military hospital BY THE SURGEON in his clinic outside the hospital his words quote "no need to pay double for same operation only the hospitals fes make up the overall cost ....

Btw im still riding the gall stone wave and will have the opp when i next get a day off in 2015 if i live that long .

I wouldnt worry and ive heard the best cure is to drink lots of cider ............ like the stuff on special offer in CC strangly enuff.

Seasons greetings stone n all.

[old-timer]

Key hole surgery is the way to go and you'll be fully recovered and back to work in a fortnight.

OT..............

[Aardvark]

Go back to the States and have it done there. They can do it using Electronic Pulses which shatter the Stone and the Body passes it Naturally. No Sergery required.

[fatbob]

If you are suffering syptoms from the gall stones, ie; liver and kidney function, the surgeon will remove your entire Gall Blader using key hole surgery, the electric pulse method is used to break up kidney stones which you then pee out, I have had that before and its quite painful when the pulse hits your spine.

The Chinese have some herbal remedys which might be worth a try to cleanse the gall bladder, kidneys and liver, if you are not suffering syptoms. I would have a go with Chinese herbal methods and have surgery as a last result.

If you were to try the Chinese methods I would certainly be interested in the results.

[semperfiguy]

After returning from my diagnosis and taking half a day to study the matter on the web, I have concluded that I will do absolutely nothing for the time being. I discovered some very interesting research that some of you may have some interest in:

SILENT GALLSTONES (non-symptomatic stones)

70-80% of people with gallstones never know they have them. These are called "silent gallstones". However, the remaining 20-30% still results in 500,000-700,000 gallbladder removals every year. And since the diet of the general American population is not improving, those numbers are rising.

The risk of silent gallstones causing a gallbladder attack is about 1% per year.

A study in the New England Journal of Medicine compared the mortality rate from emergency surgery performed for obstructing gallstones with the mortality rate from routine, scheduled gallbladder surgery and concluded that the latter gallbladder surgery is actually more dangerous. They advised that "silent" gallstones should not be subjected to surgery but left alone.

And another study reports:

"We conclude that innocent gallstones are not a myth, and that in some populations the majority of silent gallstones are inconsequential. We believe that routine prophylactic operation for silent gallstone disease, at least in white American men, is neither necessary nor advisable."

The three doctors I spoke with yesterday never mentioned any of this to me. They were very aggressive and were like bloodhounds after a raccoon when they saw an opportunity to make a fast "baht". Makes me wonder how many of these guys perform unnecessary procedures each year on an unsuspecting public who oftentimes has no access to second opinions and internet information. The locals would never question a doctor's position of authority. The rich get richer...

[Khun Paul]

I had gall-stones upon a yearly check-up some years ago, chatting with my family ( doctors all ), the tendency to remove gall stones has dissipated, natural methods of breaking up the stones including the pulse method are now favoured amongst GOOD surgeons, as they now believe why cut when you don't have to.

Some stones will naturally dilute and pass through your system and you wont even know, some could cause a blockage but that is ( as mentioned before ) rare, keyhole surgery can remove the stones or the gall bladder, but that although NOT invasive as such is still an op .

So the best decision that we all came to was....watch and listen to your body if painful in the gall bladder area,perhaps removal is required, but generally seek alternative methods to disspate the stones is always preferable.

[semperfiguy]

I had gall-stones upon a yearly check-up some years ago, chatting with my family ( doctors all ), the tendency to remove gall stones has dissipated, natural methods of breaking up the stones including the pulse method are now favoured amongst GOOD surgeons, as they now believe why cut when you don't have to.

Some stones will naturally dilute and pass through your system and you wont even know, some could cause a blockage but that is ( as mentioned before ) rare, keyhole surgery can remove the stones or the gall bladder, but that although NOT invasive as such is still an op .

So the best decision that we all came to was....watch and listen to your body if painful in the gall bladder area,perhaps removal is required, but generally seek alternative methods to disspate the stones is always preferable.

Thanks for the affirmation Khun Paul. I think I'm making the right decision for now. I'll just watch my diet, go back every 6 months for a new look at the stone, and if I happen to have a gallbladder attack then I'll reassess the situation at that time. Could go the rest of my life with no complications, but anytime one goes under the knife there's no telling what the outcome would be...especially here in Thailand.

[leoyai]

For future reference, lithotripsy, which uses ultrasound to break up the stones, used to be the non-invasive way to go. I haven't been working for many years so I don't know if there is some newer procedure out there these days.

[parrot]

"go back every 6 months for a new look at the stone"

My ultrasound several years ago revealed some small gallstones. The female ultrasound doctor (wawow!) at AEK told me to not worry about it unless I have pain in that general area.

Nothing against your desire to go back and look at your rocks every 6 months, but what are you going to look for?

[semperfiguy]

"go back every 6 months for a new look at the stone"

My ultrasound several years ago revealed some small gallstones. The female ultrasound doctor (wawow!) at AEK told me to not worry about it unless I have pain in that general area.

Nothing against your desire to go back and look at your rocks every 6 months, but what are you going to look for?

Well, you probably have a good point Parrot. I guess more than anything it would just be for the peace of mind. Maybe I'll just go one time because I am interested to see if the stone will actually reduce in size, enlarge or stay the same. Yesterday I began a radical change in my eating regimen to reduce fat and cholesterol intake, so I also want to see if the pale white coloring of my liver changes with the lowering of those levels...then I'll know I'm on the right track. I'll also do another lipid panel blood test to see if my new eating habits are effective in lowering the levels. There's no way I'm getting on the cholesterol meds. I've tried them before and the side effects are too much for my body. From now on it's "all natural" for me with meds as a very last resort!

[Khun Paul]

Well on another note I was high on the cholesterol figures when i came here, but grilling 90% of meats, microwav othr things and if frying deep fat ( minimal ) using olive oil for frying never cooking oil over the last few years my cholesterol has dropped by nearly 25 % giving figures that are well within the range. however I must say that figures differ between hospitals as well even here.

i do not drink alcohol at all before 1800 hrs, then minimal beer more spirits with a mixer. drink plenty of water and exercise ( gardening ) walk when I can rather than spend fruitless time searching for a parking space near to where I am going. me I park in UD centre and walk to centara easier ( different maybe in the rain but one does have an umbrella)
I gaveup smoking many years ago, something I do not regret and cut down on sugar intake after reading a very illuminating article in the Times I think about how much natural sugar there is in foods anyway, so why add more. hard at first but well worth it. pulse is a low 67 -72 depending on what I am doing and after running drops down very quickly to normal no longer than 10-15 mins at most .
So diet and exercise and how your food is prepared can have a major difference to your body's health in general.

[JaCKniCloSoN]

Well Guys I like this thread because it's same as I's looking for the same one for a while,
and About it I think I'm making the right decision for now. I'll just watch my diet, go back every 6 months for a new look at the stone, and if I happen to have a gallbladder attack then I'll reassess the situation at that time. Could go the rest of my life with no complications, but anytime one goes under the knife there's no telling what the outcome would be...especially here in Thailand.and thanks for sharing everyone..

[Sateev]

SFGuy:

There is a gallbladder specialist at Crown Prince Thabo hospital, in (where else?), Thabo. I personally know of a guy who had the minimally invasive laparoscopic procedure done there, and he raved about the service and the facility.

We have had physicals there, and I have nothing bad to say about the place.

Just another point of reference. I have no idea what it cost, but the guy is not an extravagant type, and did his homework, I'm sure. It's a government hospital, but seems to be trying to be a boutique facility. Worth checking out. Nice drive there, too.

Hope you don't need surgery, but if you do, it's relatively routine nowadays. Good luck.

[semperfiguy]

SFGuy:

There is a gallbladder specialist at Crown Prince Thabo hospital, in (where else?), Thabo. I personally know of a guy who had the minimally invasive laparoscopic procedure done there, and he raved about the service and the facility.

We have had physicals there, and I have nothing bad to say about the place.

Just another point of reference. I have no idea what it cost, but the guy is not an extravagant type, and did his homework, I'm sure. It's a government hospital, but seems to be trying to be a boutique facility. Worth checking out. Nice drive there, too.

Hope you don't need surgery, but if you do, it's relatively routine nowadays. Good luck.

Thanks for the head's up Sateev. I will definitely check it out. My wife is from up in that area, so I'll have a good tour guide in the process.

Happy New Year!

[Sateev]

Likewise, a very safe and Happy New Year to all!

[redwolf]

SFGuy:

There is a gallbladder specialist at Crown Prince Thabo hospital, in (where else?), Thabo. I personally know of a guy who had the minimally invasive laparoscopic procedure done there, and he raved about the service and the facility.

We have had physicals there, and I have nothing bad to say about the place.

Just another point of reference. I have no idea what it cost, but the guy is not an extravagant type, and did his homework, I'm sure. It's a government hospital, but seems to be trying to be a boutique facility. Worth checking out. Nice drive there, too.

Hope you don't need surgery, but if you do, it's relatively routine nowadays. Good luck.

Just a word about Crown Price Tha Bo hospital.

My wife had an ultrasound there, they said she had a cyst. It wasn't a cyst, it was a baby, that we lost. We did end up finding a good female doctor there, but that was LUCK. She discovered it's twin a short time later, who's now born and doing fine.

We know they are renowned throughout Thailand with regard to gall stone removal, and hold a national record for largest removed.

But when we went to check the wife in, they took one look at me, a farang, and said "no need for your husband to sign any papers for your care, he's a farang". Then, as it came time to pay after a week and 1/2 stay for my wife, her older sister checked in about payment, via my wife's Thai Gold 30 baht medical card, which they had handily switched to her sister's house papers as said sis lives in Ta Bo (my wife's from Nong Khai). She wanted to make sure the switch was going to work out as planned. They told her even though she did that, they were going to charge upwards 20K baht.

When her sister asked for an explanation, they said that because I am a foreigner, and foreigners are rich, and Ta Bo is a country hospital, with many poor, the high payments by me would offset the cost of care for a great many people.

Her sister has been a volunteer there for years, so she hit the roof and screamed them down, saying not all foreigners are rich, and who are they to deny my wife her Thai-ness, her Thai citizenship rights, by way of discrimination against me, which effectively was discrimination against a Thai.

They backed off, we got out of there for free. My one victory here after years of seeing similar. But they did tell me to exit the side door so the admins wouldn't lose face.

So my point is that while CPTB is renowned with regard to gall stone removal, their front office have their heads up their a**.

VIP rooms are hard to come by, and it's got zero boutique about it. Get in and get out.

[thighlander]

my cousin flew 300 missions in Vietnam and came home without a scratch. Unfortunately a Navy Doctor punctured his intestine during an elective gall bladder surgery. He was airlifted to Bethesda, where he dies the next day.

I was loosing a lot of weight a few years ago, intentionally, and the market had asparagus and walnuts really cheap. I ate about a kg of each over a two daty period, and I passed a pingpong ball in the toilet. Really, felt great afterwards.

Hospitals love those relatively simple operations....they seem to be killing a lot of prostate patients lately in the US. For every thousand tested, they save one, and kill forty. YIKES!

[jackspratt]

I was loosing a lot of weight a few years ago, intentionally, and the market had asparagus and walnuts really cheap. I ate about a kg of each over a two daty period, and I passed a pingpong ball in the toilet. Really, felt great afterwards.

Did I miss something here .......... when exactly did you consume a pingpong ball(s) - and for that matter, why?