what has my wife got me into ? she bought some land

Post by **Jello** » January 4, 2012, 10:01 pm

So she borrows money from family to buy land from family. There's no legal document available that shows who owns the land, and the falang son-in-law is expected to pay for this. Sounds f-ked-up to me. Are you suspicious that your wife and her family might be taking advantage of you?

Can I ask why you haven't register you marriage and made it legal? It's very easy to do. Your Idea or hers?
Do you know that if your legally married when you buy the land it will be community property. Should you decide to divorce years down the road (and the properties value has gone up) you could request half the value of that property in the divorce settlement.

Back up a little. Did she tell you ANYTHING before she made this deal in your name? You said you will be living in the UK. Do YOU want to own land in Thailand? Did you tell your wife to look for land or to make a purchase
based on the promise that her falang husband will pay for it when he comes to Thailand?

Well, if it's on the up and up then part of the 200k should have been used to pay off the bank loan and the land
papers should be available for you to look at when you arrive here. If not, just say no. Tell your wife in the nicest way possible that you don't do business like this and she needs to discuss it with you before making these deals.

If your being railroaded into this like it sounds you are, and you don't set you limits with your wife and her family,
then you can expect the same type of thing to happen again and again.

Post by **Frankie 1** » January 5, 2012, 2:46 am

Jello wrote:Do you know that if your legally married when you buy the land it will be community property. Should you decide to divorce years down the road (and the properties value has gone up) you could request half the value of that property in the divorce settlement.

This is not correct. Even when legally married, you won't have rights to land in her name. When she buys land, while you are legally married, you have to sign a document stating that you don't have, or will have, rights to the land and that she bought it with her own money. You can own a house but not the land.

Sideshowbob, this won't have to be a scam. The land is already in her family, and the right to the land is probably a promise at this time, they could hope that you will want to use the land in the future, if you decide to go and live there. So it could also be quite nice of them to do this. You haven't paid for anything yet, so you won't have to worry yet. It may be a sign of goodwill from them, and when you question that, it might be an insult or at least a cause of misunderstandings.

Further, land keeps value, and the value will most likely increase. So it's an investment as well, and may well be sold in the future with a nice profit.

Being careful doesn't mean you have to start to suspect everything that happens. If you start your relationship with doomsday thinking, then most likely that kind of thinking will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. You will undermine your relationship by showing too much suspicious behaviour towards her or her family.

Post by **Frankie 1** » January 5, 2012, 3:06 am

Tax on land is only a very small percentage and has to be paid only once with registration at the land office. So, it's not an annual payment.

A reason for her/them to do this (buying the land), might also be that they are not sure if you are serious with her, and she/they want to see if you are committed to her in a serious lasting relationship, if you are willing to take care of her and if you are able to support her. This is normal in Thailand. A lot of Thai people are suspicious about Farang as well.

Post by **kjellsnell** » January 5, 2012, 7:15 am

I do not think this is a scam. It is very common to Thai sells land in the surrounding villages without proper papers. There may be several reasons. And that ownership of land is around the family and it is no problem with it. Another reason is that the land in and around villages often not registered at the land office and in these cases are usually witnessed the sale of village leadership as a guarantee. Country Office in Izzan conducts extensive work to give all landowners real paper and eventually it is envisaged that all land should have real paper. I myself have bought land in both cases and never had a problem with it. On the contrary, land purchase where the real assets are not clear at the land office can mean real bargains. One must have knowledge of local conditions and the country to embark on business as such in order to avoid unnecessary risks. Check the ownership by the village leadership before making a purchase if there is not real paper is a great idea!

Post by **bumper** » January 5, 2012, 8:52 am

Ok just a thought she is studying for a Master Degree, so she can teach in your home Country.

It's a family loan she can pay the money back herself when she begins working.

This is what I think you have to understand the family will look at you as a bank, From there point of view that is easy to understand, By most standards we have a heck of a lot more cash then the family. They have never seen you work and save money to get that. You were just more lucky then they were.

That is not the reality for us. But it is for them.

That being said unless you really married into the wrong family, they will understand the word no.

Now if you agreed to this in the first place stand by your word. Accept a very inexpensive lesson in the WBU like the rest of us.

If you have agreed to look at it and think about it. Do just that and make up your own mind.

There are a few rules I follow with my family here.

I Never commit till I have thought it through.

Be willing to say no, they understand that, or your being conned. My wife's aunt needed a brain tumor removed. She did her part she got the bill down to 20K. Got a family member to front the money. Then I paid it back at 5K a month. That was circumstances that I felt I should help, But I wasn't looked as a walking ATM either.

When her brother ( a grown Man ) wanted to buy football shoes, the answer save your money. He is not rich by any means, but that is not a need. On the other hand I buy his two sons school clothes and books. That is a need, not a want.

If it is real emergency let them work through as much as they can before you help.

If they really need help treat them just you would paternal parents.

Never accept anything free from them.

Always keep your word.

So it's up to you to establish what you will and won't help with.

So in the end your wife hasn't gotten you into anything. If you agreed to do what she asked. Pony Up.

You don't like the end result think it through more clearly before you commit next time. If you didn't agree I don't see where you have a problem it's your wife's problem.

Post by **Jello** » January 5, 2012, 12:42 pm

Frankie 1 wrote:This is not correct. Even when legally married, you won't have rights to land in her name.

The letter of confirmation is part of the regulation that she owns it and it's not common property. For the land office
she will own and manage the land with no foreign claim. She can sell it on her own.
In a divorce you can trash the letter of confirmation as a court will apply the system of property between husband and wife civil and commercial code. It will be divided as part of marital property despite the letter of confirmation. In a divorce the land can be allocated to the foreigner with the obligation to sell within a year! You don't forfeit your claim in a divorce with this letter.

"How is property and outstanding debts divided in the event of divorce?
Thailand is a "Community Property" jurisdiction. When a couple divorces in Thailand, separate property
(sin suan tua), namely assets and property acquired before marriage, generally remains the property of the owner. Assets and property acquired during marriage are generally considered community property with both spouses having an ownership right. The rules regarding division of property are complex and the Thai Courts will divide the property according to the law and individual facts of the case.
Debts incurred during the marriage, whether they are household, medical, or educational, are in general the responsibility of both parties." http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/divorce.html

"Section 1471 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code: 'Personal property (Sin Suan Tua) consists of: (1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage, (2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse, (3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift'.

Section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code: 'As regards to Sin Suan Tua (personal property), if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua. Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or the money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua'.
Marital Property
Section 1474 marital, also referred to as matrimonial or common jointly owned property between husband and wife and under Thai law called 'Sin Somros' consists of: (1) property acquired during marriage; (2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros; (3) fruits of Sin SuanTua. In case of doubt as to whether a property in Sin Somros or not shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

This means that under Thai law all property acquired throughout the course of the marriage (except properties under the sections 1471 and 1472 above) becomes jointly owned marital property between husband and wife regardless of how the title is held." http://www.samuiforsale.com/Family-Law/ ... egime.html

Post by **parrot** » January 5, 2012, 1:30 pm

jello, not doubting what the law says, but I wonder: of all those foreigners who invested in land/house (in Thailand) and then divorced, how many walked away with either of them? From what I read in the forums, most divorced expats don't walk away with either.

Post by **trubrit** » January 5, 2012, 2:17 pm

parrot wrote:jello, not doubting what the law says, but I wonder: of all those foreigners who invested in land/house (in Thailand) and then divorced, how many walked away with either of them? From what I read in the forums, most divorced expats don't walk away with either.

Well of course that is up to the individual expat but I would point out , having just read the foreign spouse attachment to the land registry papers. It specifically has a declaration signed by the wife that the money required to purchase it was raised solely and exclusively by the said spouse without the aid of the farang "before marriage" So a court would not view that as joint property acquired during the marriage .The good news is that of course the same reasoning would apply to any property the farang owned back home . His wife would have no claim on it .By property I am referring to the land only, any house subsequently built on it would have joint ownership title and be subject to the division of assets under the matrimonial act .

Post by **jai yen yen** » January 5, 2012, 2:22 pm

trubrit wrote:
parrot wrote:jello, not doubting what the law says, but I wonder: of all those foreigners who invested in land/house (in Thailand) and then divorced, how many walked away with either of them? From what I read in the forums, most divorced expats don't walk away with either.
Well of course that is up to the individual expat but I would point out , having just read the foreign spouse attachment to the land registry papers. It specifically has a declaration signed by the wife that the money required to purchase it was raised solely and exclusively by the said spouse without the aid of the farang "before marriage" So a court would not view that as joint property acquired during the marriage .The good news is that of course the same reasoning would apply to any property the farang owned back home . His wife would have no claim on it .

I think land back home would be subject to the laws of that country, not Thailands laws. You could lose twice.

Post by **Jello** » January 5, 2012, 2:25 pm

parrot wrote:jello, not doubting what the law says, but I wonder: of all those foreigners who invested in land/house (in Thailand) and then divorced, how many walked away with either of them? From what I read in the forums, most divorced expats don't walk away with either.

I only personally know of one. Paul, who use to be a forum moderator here. I don't think
he wrote anything about it on the forum, but I know he went through a contested divorce
and walked away with the house which he was required to sell within one year.
I don't know any details of it besides that. Maybe someone else here does?

I think many falang just don't try because they believe what everyone tells them "you have no
rights in Thailand" which isn't true. Granted you don't have the same rights as a Thai and you
will be up against people that may have some bias opinions against you as a foreigner.

Post by **Jello** » January 5, 2012, 2:34 pm

trubrit wrote:The good news is that of course the same reasoning would apply to any property the farang owned back home . His wife would have no claim on it .By property I am referring to the land only, any house subsequently built on it would have joint ownership title and be subject to the division of assets under the matrimonial act .

The back home property falls under the jurisdiction back home. She would need to file her claim there.

Post by **Frankie 1** » January 5, 2012, 2:48 pm

Jello wrote:
parrot wrote:jello, not doubting what the law says, but I wonder: of all those foreigners who invested in land/house (in Thailand) and then divorced, how many walked away with either of them? From what I read in the forums, most divorced expats don't walk away with either.
I only personally know of one. Paul, who use to be a forum moderator here. I don't think
he wrote anything about it on the forum, but I know he went through a contested divorce
and walked away with the house which he was required to sell within one year.
I don't know any details of it besides that. Maybe someone else here does?

I think many falang just don't try because they believe what everyone tells them "you have no
rights in Thailand" which isn't true. Granted you don't have the same rights as a Thai and you
will be up against people that may have some bias opinions against you as a foreigner.

The house may be yours, but not the land. this is the reason why there are 30 year lease schemes, etcetera. If things were so easy as you say, then these 30 year leases would not be necessary.

You can get the land only one way. You can inherit the land only when she dies, but then you still have to sell it within one year.

Even if it were true and you could get your part of the land, you have to sell it within one year, then who are you going to sell it to if the land is in her village, and for what price?

Post by **lepidoptra** » January 5, 2012, 3:00 pm

SideshowBob wrote:the wife has borrewd the money from her parents

Please come back quickly so we can know the real story the posts are becoming like episodes of Eastenders (British Soap Opera)

Post by **Frankie 1** » January 5, 2012, 3:02 pm

Sideshowbob, my wife is teacher and studying for her master degree as well. Where does you wife teach and where does she study?

If she is a government official teacher and you are married with her (Buddhist ceremony in her village), why would she try to scam you? First of all she has her own salary and she will be able to support herself. Further, any problem will be huge loss of face for her.

Post by **lepidoptra** » January 5, 2012, 3:16 pm

Frankie 1 wrote:Sideshowbob, my wife is teacher and studying for her master degree as well. Where does you wife teach and where does she study?

If she is a government official teacher and you are married with her (Buddhist ceremony in her village), why would she try to scam you? First of all she has her own salary and she will be able to support herself. Further, any problem will be huge loss of face for her.

And what's your inside leg measurement $\:D/$

Post by **Jello** » January 5, 2012, 7:47 pm

Frankie 1 wrote:The house may be yours, but not the land. this is the reason why there are 30 year lease schemes, etcetera. If things were so easy as you say, then these 30 year leases would not be necessary.
You can get the land only one way. You can inherit the land only when she dies, but then you still have to sell it within one year.

I didn't say it was easy! But I was under the impression that you have some legal precedence if it's bought after marriage. (based on what I've read online). I do see how the the land office letter contradicts Thai law.
Well, not the first time I've been wrong!

As you point out, theirs better ways to protect yourself if you need to do so.

Frankie 1 wrote:Even if it were true and you could get your part of the land, you have to sell it within one year, then who are you going to sell it to if the land is in her village, and for what price?

Another good reason NOT to buy land in your wife's village!

Post by **Frankie 1** » January 5, 2012, 7:55 pm

lepidoptra wrote:And what's your inside leg measurement $\:D/$

Why? Are you jealous or gay?

Post by **jai yen yen** » January 5, 2012, 8:38 pm

SideshowBob wrote:OK
I’m a very suspicious person if something seems too good to be true!!! You know the rest

So my wife has bought some land of her aunt apparently it’s a good plot sitting in an up and coming area

This is where I get very suspicious

The aunt has apparently been offered 350,000 for the plot from developers but has insisted that she sells the land to her niece for 200,000

The land is tied up in a bank loan of some description which is finishing soon and is currently lying un-developed

A long time ago an acquaintances Thai wife was ripped off by a relative selling land to her which is lingering in the back of my mind
So if this deal is real and now my wife owns this plot of land what’s the catch?
Is there hidden taxes waiting to be paid any sort of liability on my wife’s side what am I looking for to make sure that everything is ok
Thanks for any and all advice

I would say what has your wife got herself into, If my lady did this to me without prior discussion and agreement I would take no responsibility at all. I don't care what she or the family would say. Her problem to pay the bill. Now is the time to set the ground rules with her and the family or the problems will never stop. If she has a problem with this get a new wife. This sounds like you are being played. Stand up for yourself now.

Post by **kumphawapi** » January 7, 2012, 6:39 pm

If the aunt would rather the land stays in the family for 200,000 that sounds like a perfectly normal Thai transaction in a Thai family to me.
I would support your wife, help her check that everything is done legally, the mortgage is paid off and she has vacant possession of the land.
I would treat it as a present to her that gives her added security, makes her feel happy in your relationship, and makes it more likely that your relationship will continue.

Post by **kjellsnell** » January 7, 2012, 7:09 pm

jai yen yen wrote:
SideshowBob wrote:OK
I’m a very suspicious person if something seems too good to be true!!! You know the rest

So my wife has bought some land of her aunt apparently it’s a good plot sitting in an up and coming area

This is where I get very suspicious

The aunt has apparently been offered 350,000 for the plot from developers but has insisted that she sells the land to her niece for 200,000

The land is tied up in a bank loan of some description which is finishing soon and is currently lying un-developed

A long time ago an acquaintances Thai wife was ripped off by a relative selling land to her which is lingering in the back of my mind
So if this deal is real and now my wife owns this plot of land what’s the catch?
Is there hidden taxes waiting to be paid any sort of liability on my wife’s side what am I looking for to make sure that everything is ok
Thanks for any and all advice
I would say what has your wife got herself into, If my lady did this to me without prior discussion and agreement I would take no responsibility at all. I don't care what she or the family would say. Her problem to pay the bill. Now is the time to set the ground rules with her and the family or the problems will never stop. If she has a problem with this get a new wife. This sounds like you are being played. Stand up for yourself now.

I think your totaly wrong...his wife follows the normal procedure out on the country about ownership for land!