Visa-on-arrival (VOA) regulations being tightened

[Dakoda]

Just an observation. I would have thought that most of the forumites in Udon were on long term visa's , marriage or retirement, but here we have 7 pages of concerned comment about 30 day ones.Am I wrong?

Somewhere on here, Paul stated it best Its not anything to do with the free 30 day visa's. Its also hard to see anyone running a business and doing 30 day runs, (although, I met one from KK doing just that, the exception I think) sure you get a free 30 days, but up here in Udon (or KK), it sure ain't free to leave and get into Laos, plus one night hotel Even down South and going to Mala for free, cost you one night hotel.

[oldfield]

SBNE,canyou tell me if Thailand has a legal instrument called A Revocable Living Trust to avoid probate?

Surely this kind of question should not be for everyone's viewing - isn't this what pm's are for?

I'm a newbie I know but I'm not that stupid.

[BKKSTAN]

SBNE,canyou tell me if Thailand has a legal instrument called A Revocable Living Trust to avoid probate?

Surely this kind of question should not be for everyone's viewing - isn't this what pm's are for?

I'm a newbie I know but I'm not that stupid.

Perhaps you are right I was interested and thought others might be also,so I posted it,even off topic.If I am wrong,I apologize!!
But ,I really don't understand why it should not be viewed by all

[businessman]

Just an observation. I would have thought that most of the forumites in Udon were on long term visa's , marriage or retirement, but here we have 7 pages of concerned comment about 30 day ones.Am I wrong?

I do not think you are.My interest stems from the fact i did visa runs for a couple of years.For many i think it may be the psychology of fear.Even if at the front of your brain you have no worries about future developments,in the subconcious there is always the "what visa is next" worry.Will they move on to look at the other visas.I think it is only natural.We are thousands of miles from home in a country where things can change very rapidly and we are only permitted to stay here one year at a time.The whole visa process can be very nerve racking and i have seen huge men in immigration shaking and sweating while their documents are perused.I think all the marriage and retirement visa holders like to be reassured that they are fine and that explains the number of posts.
Personally i have been here for coming up to ten years and only recently have i started to question whether i am welcome or not.The fact is if we have no money we cannot stay,even if we have a Thai wife and Thai children.

[arjay]

Just an observation. I would have thought that most of the forumites in Udon were on long term visa's , marriage or retirement, but here we have 7 pages of concerned comment about 30 day ones.Am I wrong?

Well not all. I guess many are, but there are others under 50 and not married to Thais that have to come and go.

Also I think there is quite a bit of interest from those further afield, who like to read our Forum for it's informed views and opinions!

[lee]

The cost of tourist visa extensions has been increased 300% from 500 baht per 30 days to 1,500 baht. Also the required capital or salary p.a. for retirement visas has been raised 100% from 400,000 baht to 800,000 baht. Visa overstays have more than doubled from 200 baht per day to 500 baht per day. Visas on arrival will be limited to a maximum of 90 days and then visitors will not be allowed back in the Kingdom for 90 days. Some embassies are no longer issuing double entry tourist visas. Investment visas will also cease...and so it goes on.

I guess we all have a little reason to worry. Who knows what they could spring on us next.

There's nothing to stop them increasing the required capital for retirement and marriage visas yet again and for tighter rules and regulations on all visa classes.

Does anyone get the feeling we're not wanted?

[arjay]

Lee, could you please clarify some of that.

The amount required in a Thai bank for a retirement visa is already 800K. As an alternative for a retirement visa one must be able to prove a monthly income of 65K. Has that changed?

The lump sum required in a Thai Bank a/c for someone married to a Thai is 400K. Are you saying that has increased to 800K?

[lee]

The amount required in a Thai bank for a retirement visa is already 800K. As an alternative for a retirement visa one must be able to prove a monthly income of 65K. Has that changed?

Yes I know it's already 800k but it hasn't always been 800k. I was just saying that I believe it was increased in the past from 400,000 to 800,000.

Here is my text:

Also the required capital or salary p.a. for retirement visas has been raised 100% from 400,000 baht to 800,000 baht.

The lump sum required in a Thai Bank a/c for someone married to a Thai is 400K. Are you saying that has increased to 800K?

I didn't write anything about the marriage visa being increased to 800,000; I was just implying that they may be increased in the future yet again. When my uncle first applied for a marriage visa 8 years ago he was only required to show 200,000 baht in the bank.

My text:

There's nothing to stop them increasing the required capital for retirement and marriage visas yet again and for tighter rules and regulations on all visa classes.

[arjay]

I understand now, you were summing up past/recent changes and wondering what might be next.

Sorry, I thought you were telling us about more new changes about to take place.

[Bump]

and the good news just keeps coming

From Thai Visa written by Siam Legal Group

The times it's business visas. Do any of you remeber that about three years ago they were talking about overhauling the visa system and even had had farrang volunteers acting as advisors? Wonder if the changes are coming from that action? So far they haven't hit my visa I have my fingers crossed.

Now that the visa requirements are scheduled to be more restrictive inside Thailand starting October 1, we are beginning to see the changes in the regional Thai Embassies and Consulates for business visa application requirements.

We sent our client to the Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia with the proper documents to apply for a non-immigrant business visa for 90 days. Now the Thai Embassy in KL is requiring a certified copy of the business registration documents for his Thai Limited Company BEFORE issuing the business visa. We are in the process of setting up his Thai company for him in Bangkok. Previously, we had provided our own company documents as the sponsor for securing the non-immigrant business visa for 90 days. Typically, the client will go outside to Malaysia to obtain a non-immigrant business visa (if they don't already have one) in order to apply for the work permit.

Our staff made calls today to the Thai Embassies in KL, Phnom Penh (Cambodia) and Vientiane (Lao), and the Thai Consulate in Hong Kong. The visa officers in each Embassy/Consulate verified that the Managing Director of that company must be the person signing the "guarantee" letter requesting the visa, a detailed description of job in that company and that all company documents (every last one of them) must be included with the application. This is a significant change and more restrictive from the previous requirements. By the way, we attempted to contact the Thai Consulate in Peneng but the telephone was engaged all day long. Remember that the information given out by the visa officer at one particular Thai Embassy or Consulate can vary greatly from another.

If you are interested in starting a business in Thailand it is still possible to obtain the non-immigrant business visa in a nearby Thai Embassy/Consulate, however, the company must be registered first and the Thai visa application comes after. Our ability to assist our Thai visa clients in USA and UK is unaffected by these new stricter guidelines so I highly recommend applying for your Thai Visa in your home country. Don’t leave home without it!

Dennis Ramm

www.siam-legal.com

[BKKSTAN]

Here is an area of concern;source,The Nation

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Immigration officials should consider visa regulations impact on language schools

Re: "Thailand right to turf out undesirables through visa law", Letters, September 15.

Most of the comments and exchanges about the proposed tightening of rules regarding visas on arrival and visa runs have so far revolved around a narrow perception of whom this policy will affect. Most letters have zeroed in on either side of the tourism sector - the businesses and their patrons - and thus there has also been a caricaturing of those with anything to lose as freeloaders, bar-dwellers, etc.

As an expatriate in Thailand, however, I can picture one other vital sector that will take a hit: the international schools. Specifically, I refer to the smaller schools - not the big, expensive international schools that only subsidised employees and executives of multinationals can afford. There are hundreds of such smaller schools in Bangkok providing a crucial service that is essential to many middle-income families.

Unfortunately, the reality for most of these schools is they cannot get work permits for all of their foreign teachers without skewing their tuition structures beyond what their students' parents can afford. For every work permit they provide, meanwhile, business requirements in Thailand will also compel them to staff their faculty with a quota of Thai teachers that, sorry to say, simply do not have English-speaking qualifications, to keep a school's programme truly international. Thus, it is no secret that many - if not most - of the fully qualified teachers in these smaller international and bilingual schools do go on visa runs every month.

My point here, however, is to ask whether Thai immigration authorities have truly considered all aspects of the potential impact of their proposed stricter policy? All their statements have created the impression they are targeting some specific groups of "undesirables" with the stricter rules - migrant bar girls and bar owners, for example. But have they consulted other sectors? Thai immigration authorities may want to ask other industries, do some consultation and consider the possible impact before handing down something that really seems not fully thought out.

[arjay]

A Quote from today's Nation Newspaper:

Big impact expected from tougher visa-free entry rules

The days of foreign visitors doing endless "border runs" in order to live - and often work - in Thailand are over, the Immigration Police announced yesterday.

The Kingdom will tighten its immigration rules for tourists who exploit visa-free regulations, starting from the end of the month.

The move will affect tens of thousands of visitors from 41 countries who have been allowed to stay in Thailand for up to 30 days without a visa - often for many months or years.

The 41 visa-exempt countries include Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United States.

Tourists have been able to extend their stay by travelling to neighbouring countries - Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos and Burma - and returning with a further 30-day entry stamp.

But new rules have been issued because an increasing number of tourists have stayed for extended periods - without paying proper amounts of tax. This has also helped them avoid close scrutiny by authorities here and in their homeland.

"We are trying to make it more difficult for bad people to get in," Immigration Police chief Lt General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul said at a press conference yesterday.

"I don't think it's going to hurt good people because they can apply for a tourist visa [in their homeland]," he said.

The move is expected to have a big impact on the foreign community and some sectors such as teaching and diving, plus places where there are many bars run by foreigners, such as Pattaya and Chiang Mai.

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

And tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand.

Suwat denied the crackdown was related to the arrest in Bangkok last month of John Mark Karr, the American teacher who was thought to have been involved in the high-profile JonBenet Ramsey murder case. He said there were many reasons that extended back for a long period.

Suwat conceded the move may cause some problems, but said "maybe we have to do something to make it better [later]".

However, if foreigners wanted to work here they should get a work visa, he said.

A source added: "Under the current rules, people from these countries can stay in Thailand for as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year. Many work illegally in Thailand."

Instead of sightseeing, these tourists have taken advantage of the visa exemption by getting married to Thai women "for reasons other than love", and have conducted business here. Many of them have not paid tax.

The immigration move is a hot topic among foreign residents, and comes at a time when many are fearful about possible changes in regard to firms with local nominees.

Hundreds of comments were logged on local Web boards within hours of the Immigration Department press conference. Some said foreigners should abandon Thailand for neighbouring countries, while others predicted it might force school bosses to pay foreign teachers a proper wage or cause a boom in men wanting to marry Thai women.

Most believed the move could cost Thailand a small fortune.

Meanwhile, plans are under way to simplify the process for foreign teachers to work here as the current system requires 13 separate steps, which take many months to complete.

Heads of international schools have been meeting with the Immigration Department to try to simplify the process.

Thailand recently simplified the process for foreigners who want to become permanent residents. The amount of paperwork required has been slashed and the time involved reportedly cut from more than a year to about four months.

Last year Thailand tightened its immigration rules for South Asian tourists, who were allowed to apply for visas on arrival that permitted them to stay for 30 days. Many of them took advantage by travelling to neighbouring countries and returning to get a new visa on arrival at the airport.

Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand.

Jim Pollard

The Nation

[rickus]

Hi ,
I have read most of the posts on the new visa rules and various visa,s available, I am on a 30 day entry and do the visa run every month.
I had some interesting advice involving a motor bike licence, and was told if I was in a Thai family book I could sit for and obtain a bike licence, my questions are, if a a foreigner is in a Thai family book what visa,s are available to that person.?? If you are not yet married to a member of the family, how can they put you in the family book. ??

[arjay]

Welcome to the Forum rickus.

I doubt very much you could any sort of different visa by simply being in the house book (tabien bahn). In fact I'm sure you couldn't.

The best you could hope to do, would be to apply for a Non-Immigrant "O" visa when outside the country on the basis of your strong family connection/support for, though that would probably be down to the whims of the individdual at the Consulate you were dealing with. Wokkawombat seems to have had some success along those lines.

Incidentally, I doubt you could get a Thai Driving Licence simply by being in a House Registration book, as they will also want photo-copies of your passport and visa, and you say you only have a 30 day VOA.

[valentine]

I have posted on this Tabien bahn (house book ) issue before, but for the benefit of newcomers. A farang or any non Thai national cannot under any circumstances have their name added to it. It is blue colour and resticted soley to Thai nationals. It shows an entitlement to vote or even stand for election, subject to age limitations. A non Thai, farang, or other Asian person, can if married to a Thai national be eligble for a Place of abode document. It is yellow in colour and entry in it is restricted to non Thai citizens.It can make it easier to register a vehicle including a motorbike in your own name and for obtaining a Thai driving license for either. It is no means neccessary though as these transactions can be done just as easy with a letter showing address in Thailand, obtainable from any immigration office.
The yellow book requires extensive investigation into your affairs in your home country before it is issued. These include , a criminal record check, a letter from the relevant tax authority that all taxes due have been paid, and even, in countries with matrimonial responsibilties legislation, that you have and will continue to abide by court ordered maintenance of an ex wife and children.Some countries will also record your living abroad to limit or even cancel entirely your right to some social benefits, including freezing further increases in your pension.
My personal opinion is , so much hassle for little or no actual benefit. I have a Swedish neighbour who went down this house book road and ever since, every 6 months , as regular as clockwork, he gets a letter from Sweden asking him to verify he is still alive, which entails, visits to immigration,the local police and a translation office. Not worth it

[Bump]

Not good news I'm afraid I can only relate my experience in obtaining a Thai license. One thing is that you do need a letter from the immigration office to get one. The second part is they told me specifically they will not issue that letter to a tourist visa holder. I have had my license for three years now. Maybe something changed, but I have not seen it.

[valentine]

Not good news I'm afraid I can only relate my experience in obtaining a Thai license. One thing is that you do need a letter from the immigration office to get one. The second part is they told me specifically they will not issue that letter to a tourist visa holder. I have had my license for three years now. Maybe something changed, but I have not seen it.

Perfectly correct Ray. Neither can a tourist visa holder register a car or motorcycle in his own name.
An addendum to my previous posting on house papers. I have just been informed by the head of Amphoe, that I am incorrect that a farang cannot be entered on the blue tambien bahn paper. There is one and only one exception. If the foreigner is a female, lawfully married to a Thai male citizen for at least one year, not only can she be entered but can purchase and register land in her own name, providing she has changed her surname to her Thai husbands surname.A case for the equal opportunities commission perhaps

[sunbeltnortheast]

Hi All:

I apologize for the confusion regarding my initial posting on the visa issue. If I recall, my comment was pertaining to distinguishing between a non-O and non-B and extending it within Thailand. Admitedly, it was probably not very clear or well-worded. ;(

Anyway, apologize for the confusion. I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was not a multiple-entry non-imm O or that people who had them did not have them...

Thanks.

[beer monkey]

from arjays post
"Big impact expected from tougher visa-free entry rules "

have a read of the e-mail's sent in, click on the link, scroll to the bottom,even send a comment if you like...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/09 ... n/this.gif[/img]

[Dakoda]

The point of most of the posts here, seems to be that some people should get a legal visa. Hey they did

So this change will mean what?

Already, people that have applied for 60 day tourist visa's have been turned down (too many prior) and told to just get an 30 day on entry visa.

So what will be their legal options after Oct 1 If under 50 years of age, only one, Get Married and have 400,000 baht in the bank

When has the Thai government made only one change?

This is the first part of changes to come. So what if: Next will be the increase of married and retirement visa's (Jan 1), married will increase to 800,000 baht, while retirement visa's will increase to 1,500,000 baht

Hope this doesn't effect anyone.