International Church of Thailand

Post by **udonmap** » September 6, 2012, 7:22 pm

: International Church of Thailand

Post by **fatbob** » September 7, 2012, 6:54 am

How can you allow this type of scam on the forum, wonders never cease! Pastor Bob and Alison Hall, 'Break curses, Heal sick and diseased, prosper you financially' , prosper them financially as they scam all the Thai's that do not understand, give me a break please!

Post by **pienmash** » September 7, 2012, 7:46 am

coxo wrote:How can you allow this type of scam on the forum, wonders never cease! Pastor Bob and Alison Hall, 'Break curses, Heal sick and diseased, prosper you financially' , prosper them financially as they scam all the Thai's that do not understand, give me a break please!

Each to their own religious beliefs Coxo ,,,, i might add i was myself tadge suprised by the wording in the posted leaftlet/flyer ,, however this is a very touchy subject indeed and by using the word scam you risk incurring the wrath of "believers" ........ as i have found speaking ones mind / being straight to the point can often cause problems when it comes to religion etc and living here and having a business i wouldnt want to get on the wrong side of JC if he has all these powers .

Seems to be an influx of pastors coming into Thailand nowadays mostly /all from America i would think , again i wouldny even start to profess why this is but its a fact ,, 5-10 years ago there were none ... just another sign of how Udon and Thailand in general is changing .

For the record its a personal choice of course and i have no specific religion (except SUFC) but i wont knock those who have including my missus who is a temple head .

I hope Jesus loves me , mores the point i hope the customers of our business love CC.

Mash

Post by **akwoodworker** » September 7, 2012, 7:55 am

Mash is right, even though open discussion and compassion are essential to a quality spiritual life, in religion it is a no no. Pity

Post by **Khun Paul** » September 7, 2012, 9:56 am

I once in my youth hd an occasion to go to a Billy graham outdoor chirch meeting in London, now I will not say I don't believe but that man had a way of speaking to hundreds nay thousands and he was a good man. At least he was publically recognised .

These so-called exponents of the Word of God are too my mind in the same basket as Jehovah witnesses, Mormons and the like to be treated with a smile and nod but generally ignored.

I am not saying he is lying just economical with the truth and in any event I would want some proof which none can give not even the religion here. So I'll just gently ignore this one as well.

Post by **fatbob** » September 7, 2012, 10:00 am

Except that these type of business's, *note not religion, pray on people who cannot realistically take care of themselves or most importantly there finances, which is what these business's target, not there well being. I see in years to come another reason for Thai's to have anti farang sentiment!!!

Post by **pienmash** » September 7, 2012, 10:15 am

Questions of funding do arise ,, is it a business or a voluntary mission to teach others about other religions ? these churches have to be paid for ,, with no charge for those who wish to attend ,,, so is it a donation deal ?

Not casting negativeness or dome n gloom but exactly what point does a religion become a business coxo raises an excellent point.

I have known organisations like this set up in Patts and Bkk only to rack in a bucket load of cash in "donations" from new believers /converts and then dissappear as quick as they came ....... fact seen with my own eyes .....

Having said all this , we are all different and have our own opinions on religion and these folks feel the need to do this then so be it ,, the general public are free to choose if to join or not .

mash

KB_Texas · Post by **KB_Texas** » September 7, 2012, 11:23 am

I still like the old Beatles line...whatever gets you through the night is all right. I would never think of telling another they are full of it unless it impacted me or my loved ones. That being said, we have a man running for president of the United States that believes that Jesus flew from the middle east to Utah to bless some old guys being persecuted for their 'faith', which basically made these old guys words the 'word of God'. Nice gig if you can get it.

Personally, I believe religion is one of the two WORSE ideas mankind has ever come up with...but I do not try to 'convert' others to my thinking. When it comes to faith, logic plays no role.

Here's a link to something I find quite amusing. In the name of full disclosure, if you are a TRUE BELIEVER do not click it as it WILL upset you!

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/a ... g&newest=1

KB

Post by **Khun Paul** » September 7, 2012, 12:34 pm

Further to my last I know and have known 'teachers ' who come here under a missionary guise acquire a visa so easily that it is almost criminal and then teach while at the same time attempting to convert a few kids along the way. The Thai Authorities think all religious people good, therefore these 'Missionaries/Teachers have an easy ride. They apy zero tax and seem to think it is quite alright to run a business with no work permit as well as coining it in themselves, their funding has always left a lingering question as to how they survive. While we here with our knowledge can only surmise it is for the Thai Authorities to act to deal with what is easily a growing cult, missionaries and the like coming to a third World country spouting their doctrine. This is Buddist country but they seem to ignore that openly.

While I would not in any way poor scorn on their faith, it IS their ulterior motives and possible financial gain that leaves a nasty taste, while the poor.disadvantaged an uneducated as previously said, suffer thinking all will be OK.

Post by **akwoodworker** » September 7, 2012, 12:53 pm

A true teacher teaches for free. I hope to meet some of these 'teachers'. I used to confound them when they came to my house. Most are so resolute in their beliefs, which are usually based on a few quotes, that other truths have them stuttering. Studying many different philosophies has given me a rounded perspective. I am looking forward to spending a week or so at wat ban tat when I return. A religion that does good for others is true. As a reluctant morman I am very aware of the 'missionaries'.
Best to all

Post by **jackspratt** » September 7, 2012, 1:16 pm

One can only wonder how the poor ignorant Thais have managed to survive all those years since circa 1550, when the first missionaries arrived in Siam.

Post by **parrot** » September 7, 2012, 2:09 pm

"One can only wonder how the poor ignorant Thais have managed to survive all those years since circa 1550, when the first missionaries arrived in Siam."

Trick question? I think the answer is, because the missionaries introduced western medicine to the country.

Post by **fatbob** » September 7, 2012, 2:30 pm

jackspratt wrote:One can only wonder how the poor ignorant Thais have managed to survive all those years since circa 1550, when the first missionaries arrived in Siam.

Yeah they put em in a big pot of water with vege's, chilli and mushrooms and a big fire under..........

Post by **rjj04** » September 7, 2012, 3:44 pm

KB_Texas wrote:
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k63/a ... g&newest=1

KB

=D> Amen Brother!!

Post by **FrazeeDK** » September 7, 2012, 4:24 pm

I know a fellow who is over here on a missionary (Non Immigrant "R) visa. He just recently did his annual renewal and had to jump through a number of hoops.. He said it certainly wasn't rubber stamped..

As for how he "survives" here, well his Church organization back in the States evidently supports missionary efforts, Thailand being one.

The flip side to the Farang Christian missionaries over here in Thailand are the substantial numbers of Buddhist Wats Stateside each with their group of Thai Buddhist monks, all on missionary "religious" visas while they're in the States.

I'm assuming there must be a certain amount of reciprocity in the U.S. issuance of religious visas to Buddhist monks versus the number of missionary visas issued by the Thai MFA.. An "R" visa requires Thai MFA approval...

Post by **FrazeeDK** » September 7, 2012, 4:27 pm

can't say I agree with the advertisements promises of healing, financial success etc. but that can't be too different from some Wats where the monks give out the winning lottery numbers!!

Post by **pienmash** » September 7, 2012, 8:15 pm

I personally Dont have a problem with any religion or those who chose to follow it ..... my only real concern ref this advert / flyer is the wording ,,,,,,,, the polite word that springs to mind is MISSLEADING ...........

mash

Post by **semperfiguy** » September 7, 2012, 8:25 pm

The website listed on the brochure is non-existent, but I have tracked the pastor and his wife to the following website where they are listed as missionaries in Udon Thani. I will check them out this coming Sunday and give you a full report.

Website in Arizona, USA is: http://www.thedoortempe.com/index.php?section_id=11

Post by **akwoodworker** » September 7, 2012, 10:02 pm

Well I am going to check them out for my free miracle, can always use one more!

Post by **JimboPSM** » September 7, 2012, 10:26 pm

If you don’t have a clear and distinct separation of church and state, there will always be a danger of some "intolerant religious nuts" who want to turn “their” country into “their” theocracy.

President Thomas Jefferson showed a great deal of wisdom both about, and in respect of, religions and of its personal nature and of its place with regard to government as shown in this extract from his letter to the Danbury Baptists:

.... Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Source and context: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letter_to ... ry_1,_1802

If only modern day politicians were so enlightened about the proper place of religion in government instead of using religion as a weapon of partisan hate and division