International Church of Thailand

[Jello]

I saw some teenage Thais at Nong Prajak passing out the above flyers for this church and thought maybe they have a youth outreach program? I think that would be a positive thing for the community if they offered some kind of youth club with organized activities for teenagers here in Udon.

I've met a couple of missionaries here that were doing things to help people (funded by their churches back in the states). Don't paint all missionaries with the same brush, it's not always just about evangelism and taking donations. Some actually do walk the walk and want to help their fellow man. Like that other guy would have done, whats his name? Oh yeah, Jesus.

Thais are very tolerant of other religions. They seem to feel confident enough in their own belief in Buddhism as to not feel threatened by any other system of thought. Like Jack pointed out, missionaries have been coming here for five hundred years and the country is still 94% Buddhist, 5% Muslim and 1% other (Christianity being less than half of one percent I would guess).

If the Thais don't mind them here, why should we?

[semperfiguy]

If you don’t have a clear and distinct separation of church and state, there will always be a danger of some "intolerant religious nuts" who want to turn “their” country into “their” theocracy.

President Thomas Jefferson showed a great deal of wisdom both about, and in respect of, religions and of its personal nature and of its place with regard to government as shown in this extract from his letter to the Danbury Baptists:

.... Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Source and context: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letter_to ... ry_1,_1802

If only modern day politicians were so enlightened about the proper place of religion in government instead of using religion as a weapon of partisan hate and division

Forgive me Jimbo, but I don't quite understand your point. If you are suggesting that there are politicians currently serving the American public who are trying to force their religious creeds on our citizens, could you be more specific as to whom and in what instance? I'm not challenging you to an argument, I'm just trying to get a handle on your meaning.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

[quote="pienmashSeems to be an influx of pastors coming into Thailand nowadays mostly /all from America i would think , again i wouldny even start to profess why this is but its a fact ,, 5-10 years ago there were none ... just another sign of how Udon and Thailand in general is changing .Mash[/quote]


I believe the Mormons have been circulating in Udonthani and Chiang Mai longer than that. At least they have been in Chiang Mai for almost 40 years, and in Udonthani for more than 10. They are, from what I remember, well-dressed and polite as they spread their message. Unlike most farangs, they speak Thai well.

A friend of mine in Udon has a sister with a few townhouses in the city, and she said these Christian messengers were the best tenants of all the farangs she had as they paid the rent on time, were clean, helpful and well-mannered. I don't think they made many converts; however, they gave a good name, not a bad one, to farangs.

[pompui]

International Church of Thailand

christian-fellowship-church.jpg

Is the location where Arena restaurant used to be ,excellent location =D> Prime estate area and used to get a good view of Loy Krathong.
Luckily this year it falls on a Wednesday and not clashing with a Thursday or Sunday 7pm evening meeting otherwise parking would be a nightmare [-o<

[farlong68]

faith is one thing religons are something else....on a lighter note the mormons have been in issan since late 60s or early 70s ive also seen them in laos and camb. they looked just a little out of place back then slacks black leather shoes white shirt and book of mormon in one hand walking down a red clay country road....strange days indeed lol

[fatbob]

If the Thais don't mind them here, why should we?

Because I don't agree with them, or like what they stand for!

[nkstan]

If the Thais don't mind them here, why should we?

Because I don't agree with them, or like what they stand for!

Which is what?In your opinion!

[fatbob]

Well Stan I can only post my opinion, I cant post someone else's can I?
Your point being?
You are free to agree with these people, that's your choice, clearly I am stating I don't!

[pienmash]

As i have stated earlier in this thread i am totally impartial ref the religion and or the choice of those who wish to preach it or attend and listen ,, clear easy choices ... i am not negative about the church / temple or any other . IF i am a believer or not has no meaning as ..............

my concern is simply with the terminology / wording used in the flyer ,,, it is grossly missleading and im sure there were better ways to get the message across than this twaddle .....



mash

[kjellsnell]

As i have stated earlier in this thread i am totally impartial ref the religion and or the choice of those who wish to preach it or attend and listen ,, clear easy choices ... i am not negative about the church / temple or any other . IF i am a believer or not has no meaning as ..............

my concern is simply with the terminology / wording used in the flyer ,,, it is grossly missleading and im sure there were better ways to get the message across than this twaddle .....



mash

Halleluja to that! :-"

[trubrit]

Whilst the original post doesn't say I presume as it was posted by Lee himself I can only presume they are a sponsor. If so this is totally inappropiate for a forum that has until now , been non secular. I have said before religion and politics are strictly non debatable, certainly not on a open forum such as this .We all have our views on both subjects which are for the most part ingrained by our own upbringing and most certainly won't change by others comments on here. If we permit one creed to advertise its wares are we not guilty of bias, either religous or polictical by not making space available for others of different persuasion. A free announcement in a public announcement column, open to all , is surely the most we should be involved in .I can only assume that if a polictical party of either side wanted to take advertising space it would be accepted and we all know what road that could lead to .No this is a trend we should not tolerate .

[jackspratt]

I reckon you are tilting at windmills Val:

- as far as I am aware, there is no forum policy re religion, nor politics

- UM can only be "guilty of bias" if it refuses to allow other creeds space. Have any Buddhists/Catholics/Muslims/Jews etc applied?

- as far as I am concerned, there should (unfortunately) be only one subject that cannot be discussed. Both politics and religion are fair game, and it is up to the Mods to do their stuff if the debate oversteps, or breaks forum rules.

[Khun Paul]

While I tend to concur with JS I do also agree with TB, in this impartial world surely it is best for both religion and Politics to be kept off the Forum, I mean we have had in the past long diatribes about American politics but not often do we hear about other countries politics either we Europeans are completely un political or that we don't wish to bore others with our views about politics. The same should bge said about religion, we are not talking in this instance about what these people preach but how they p[reach and some of the things they are offering which at best is a stretching things a bit.

The Mormons and jehovahs Witnesses go door to door or workplace to work place not often do you see them opening a pop in centre in a town even in the Uk it is a church or nothing yet her we have a pop in for your daily dose of God ( their interpretation ) which is a far cry from a registered place of worship like the Catholic Church etc.

To often we see these people come and go after they hav e dare I say it, scammed the local population , yet if they were really truely practitioners of speading the word money would be the last thing on their minds, sad to say often that is not true.

So the views stated herre are as a result of many of us seeing first hand what charlatans many of these people are.

Whilke I do not castigate these two folks in any way years of expereince has taught me that many are believers of their own creed but most mainstream believers in most religions ( that is Christianity, Hinduism, Buddism and Moslem) find it hard nay almost impossible to accept them.

[pienmash]

I tend to agree with both TB and Jack as both make valid points ,,,,,, what IMO has set this apart from other religious debates is the blatant use of miss information and to be truthful lies on the opening posts ad/flyer ... i am un aware of any historical proof that JC can actually perform the tasks stated and until some one attends and can say different my mind is set ..... indeed i find it quite disturbing that claims like this can be used in this context ,,, believer or not it is wrong to spin this miracle worker and other waffle ........ as my old gran would say quote " i didnt sail up the Trent on a Woodbine packet young Jon " when i was trying to look innocent at robing her pantry.

mash ......I MAY BE WRONG

[Panty Hamster]

Bhuddists set up temples in every western country. Muslims, Jews, the same.

It's a giant circle jerk. If you want to criticize one, they're all the same.

Religion has killed far more than it's ever saved.

[maaka]

us in Kiwiland just choose our political party and vote, and thats that..we dont make a National sport out of it, like some others seem to do.

as for religion as a topic for discussion on UM. Its not my cup of tea. I dont have a religion, but I am spiritual. However, some members like Semi, might get enjoyment from discussing his religious views, with fellows of like mind..lots of fella's use to shoot Semi down for bathing us in his bibilical terms, so much so that I notice he seems to have now nipped his vocal blessings in the bud. However, he or other members of such persuasion, might find some comfort and release from thier cocooned daily lifestyles in a foreign land by discussing theological matters. It would be a hard road to hoe on a forum with some many different veiwpoints, but I am all for free speech. If such a discussion comes along then I will give as much attention as I give, say US politics..

[Jello]

Thais are very tolerant of other religions. They seem to feel confident enough in their own belief in Buddhism as to not feel threatened by any other system of thought. ---
If the Thais don't mind them here, why should we?

No this is a trend we should not tolerate .

Thanks for proving my point. Feel threatened much?

the blatant use of miss information and to be truthful lies on the opening posts ad/flyer ...

Yeah, the laundry list on the ad reads like a cure-all for all that ailes ya in life. Reminds me of other "Amazing Offer" forms of advertising, or:

Even at that, some believe and it helps them get through the difficult times in their life. So why piss on their parade?
Feel threatened much Mash? You've posted 5 times in 2 days saying basically the same point. You don't like the ad, we get it.

[trubrit]

Thais are very tolerant of other religions. They seem to feel confident enough in their own belief in Buddhism as to not feel threatened by any other system of thought. ---
If the Thais don't mind them here, why should we?

No this is a trend we should not tolerate .

Thanks for proving my point. Feel threatened much?


)

No, not threatened at all. To feel threatened by what they claim is to give credence to it, which I definitely don't. There are many things that go on in the "Real' world outside the map which I think aren't suitable or appropiate to discuss on the forum, religion is just simply one of them.For your info the apparent Thai toleration of these groups has nothing to do with confidence, just simply that as a group, us farang are all considered 'baa,baa" in the majority of their minds.
Now if someone could provide proof of the lot that promises ten virgins awaiting me then I might be open to conversion.

[Jello]

I think your referring to the 72 virgins promised to Islamic martyr's. I don't really get that, I'd rather have 72 badgirls that know what there doing!

[Khun Paul]

Probably die of the pox then what a way to go....................................1