Fun & Games at the UT Immigration Office

[fdimike]

Last month my wife and her girlfriend (both dual national Thai-American) went to renew their 5 year driver’s license. During the renewal process they asked what type of documentation would their husbands need to renew their 5 year license? They also told the drivers license personnel that their husbands were on a retiree visa and had been living in Thailand for nearly 8 years. They were told that their husbands would have to obtain a letter from the Immigration Department attesting to their current address in Thailand. That letter should be presented at the time they renew their license. There was no mention of any Yellow House Registration.

Yesterday my wife and I visited the UT Immigration Office with all the required documents in hand and asked to obtain the residence letter from immigration. Immigration requires the following documents to process the letter certifying your address:

1. All pages from the passport (2 cys)
2. TM-6 Arrival Card (2 cys)
3. House Registration (2 cys)
4. Wife’s ID card (2 cys)
5. Application form from immigration (original only)
6. Old drivers license (viewing only)
7. Passport size photos (3)

We entered the IO and asked about obtaining the certification and was directed to the far side of the room where 3 student interns were processing paperwork and gave them the paperwork. Inside of about 15 minutes everything was signed sealed and ready for delivery back to us. Then the intern holding the papers said 500Baht. I asked why and was told again 500Baht. I told her there was no fee for this letter. The poor intern didn’t know what to say. My wife then began to get into the conversation and asked for a receipt and was told no receipt was available. No more than 10 seconds elapsed and the female IO who sits next to the column in the office promptly came over to explain that this fee was necessary. My wife said fine all I want is a receipt. Once again we were told no receipt was available. We both told the IO we were not going pay any money unless we were given a receipt. Suddenly the female IO then told us this was to help buy lunch for the interns. We told her we wanted a receipt once more.

The female IO then turned and walked into the supervisor’s office which is marked in large letters “INSPECTOR”. A moment later the female IO came out asking us to speak with the chief. My wife replied that would be fine because she wanted to speak with him as well.

The conversation was pleasant and pretty much a repeat of what was said outside his office. After about 15 minutes he finally admitted that they could not give us a receipt because there was no charge to obtain this document and it would be up to us if we wanted to “give” money to buy lunch for the interns and maybe some coffee for the office. He then apologized profusely saying that he had heard about this 500Baht “fee” but didn’t know anything about it. He then turned the blame entirely on the interns saying they just didn’t know how to ask for the money. My wife told him the demand for money was obviously a “fee” and that she had of these practices on the internet. He continued telling us that it was not really their job to provide this form to which my wife replied then why are you doing it. He was sort of speechless and then said well the 500Baht would help cut the line to which my wife replied that we really didn’t want any favors and then asked how long it would take to process the request. He told us 2 days to which we both replied that would be fine. He then went on about having to come to our house etc etc etc. About that time the female IO came in with some papers telling the supervisor that he should fine my wife for not reporting my presence in the house. My wife then began to get visibly upset telling him and her that she was not afraid of this because she had done nothing wrong and that we have been married for nearly 40 years and have lived at this same address for nearly eight years, had obtained a new retiree visa for both of us every year since we arrived & reported our address every 90 days as is required. The supervisor brushed aside the garbage brought in by the female IO saying he would take care of it. She promptly left without saying another word. At this point my wife and I were getting even more upset with me standing to leave and her telling the supervisor to just tear up the paperwork and we’ll get it from another office. I suggested the Korat Immigration Regional Office. The supervisor said no need to do that we just want to make you happy. My wife replied then do what you’re supposed to do by the law.

This conversation continued for another 30 minutes with my wife insisting that he do what he was supposed to do by law as we did not want any favors and he telling her they just wanted to make us happy. He then called in another IO who would be the person who actually would visit us at our home the next day at 10AM. He then reaffirmed the no fee issue for the document but it would be up to us if we wanted to contribute some money.

At 10AM today 3 individuals arrived at our home to interview a witness (wife’s brother) who would attest to me living at this address while another took a bunch of happy snaps which immediately brought back memories of the movie Alice’s Restaurant. More profuse apologizing by the IO over yesterday’s “misunderstanding” and finally after about 30 minutes all was complete and all was happy happy (their words while smiling) as they left.

I picked up the completed certification this afternoon from what appeared to be a disappointed supervisor because I guess my wife did not come with me and I did not contribute a single baht to help the poor unfortunate interns buy lunch.

I apologize for the length of this post but everyone should be aware of these questionable practices and know how to deal with them beforehand. Once again there is no fee to obtain a residence document from immigration (takes 2 days and a home visit) just as there is no fee to move a visa from an old passport to a new one. Anytime you’re asked for money you need to politely ask for a receipt. No receipt means the “fee” is not legitimate. At that point one should ask to speak with the supervisor.

I’ll check with the driver’s license folks tomorrow to see if a Yellow House Book would be acceptable to prove one’s current residence to obtain a D/L.

[RLTrader]

Sounds like an exciting day, Mike.

When I got my 1 year and then my 5 year driver’s license, I used the yellow book without a problem. Maybe something has changed, but I doubt it. No matter what the question is, in Thailand, you will get a different answer each time asked.

I should add that the last time I renewed my retirement, got hit with 100 baht fee for copies of obscure pages of my passport, and of course the receipt was still for only 1900 baht.

Starting to sound like a new policy.

[fdimike]

I don't know if this is a new policy or not but will check with D/L people tomorrow. Personally I thought it was hilarious as the "fee" morphed into a "contribution" of sorts.

[gudtymchuk]

I apologize for the length of this post but everyone should be aware of these questionable practices and know how to deal with them beforehand. Once again there is no fee to obtain a residence document from immigration (takes 2 days and a home visit) just as there is no fee to move a visa from an old passport to a new one. Anytime you’re asked for money you need to politely ask for a receipt. No receipt means the “fee” is not legitimate. At that point one should ask to speak with the supervisor.

And then you will have those who will say they have no problem with paying these "little fees" if it will expedite their immigration requests. After all, it is really a trivial amount of money in their mind.....

[jackspratt]

I can also confirm that at the (Nong Mek) Transport Office, the yellow Tabien Baan was sufficient to obtain a 5 year license.

Mike, you story also further confirms that we are not totally at the mercy of the Immigration Officers' whims and fancies. They certainly have some discretion, but are still obliged to follow the law of the land. It is good to hear your wife had the gumption to challenge them.

If you look at Thai Visa, there are numerous stories about the issue of residence certificates from different Immigration offices throughout Thailand. Some, like UT, will try it on for a "fee", while others will follow the law, and issue the certificate gratis.

ps 500 baht would buy an awful lot of lunchtime kwaey tiow or khao mung gai.

pps I was in the Immigration office today, and got a re-entry permit issued in quick time, and without fuss.

[karonsteve]

500 baht as opposed to having 3 officers at your house taking pictures, being intrusive by talking to people, rousing the neighbours attention and then having to wait 2 days all on a principle allied to which maybe you have made a "non friend" in Immigration?
Good on you but personally I would've paid the equivalent price of a half decent meal for my wife and I.
Yes I know that next time I go back in there it will cost me the same again but T.I.T. and they WILL make you pay one way or another.
"you story also further confirms that we are not totally at the mercy of the Immigration Officers' whims and fancies." Sorry Jack but you are.

[jackspratt]

"you story also further confirms that we are not totally at the mercy of the Immigration Officers' whims and fancies." Sorry Jack but you are.

Steve if you want to believe that, I am sure it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

In my case, I don't.

[fdimike]

It wasn't intrusive at all. The only person they spoke to was my wife's older brother. I thought it was kind of ridiculous. I'll continue to opt for doing things "by the book" whenever possible even if it means a bit of inconvenience. I'm retired and have plenty of time on my hands. We didn't have to wait 2 days. We went to immigration yesterday and received the letter today.

[Brian Davis]

I'm with you fdimike in sticking out against paying unofficial fees. Dependent on how busy the office is, how the money is pooled and just how much they can get out of , sometimes uninformed, individuals, this can be a nice earner for officers. I've no objection in paying a reasonable fee for services, but make it official! If the officers salaries increase or performance-pay, ok.
It's a new one on me - using the excuse of 'buying the students lunch'. Perhaps the thinking is that applicants are less like to make a fuss when faced, usually, with a group of pretty girls?

[fdimike]

Brian

If they had been truthful with me and asked for a donation (sign on a jar) to help the students I would have been happy to do so but demanding a fee of 500B for something that is free is just wrong. To compound matters the female IO attempted to defend the "fee" as though this was an absolute. I would have happily walked out if they did not rethink their position and contacted the Regional Office in Korat to file a complaint.

[kjellsnell]

I have never ever had any kind of problem whit the imigration in Udonthani and i wonder what is wrong here....somebody have this experiences but other not???

[GARYZX6R]

Have always been charged for the residence letter.It sure is standard practice in Udon.

[fdimike]

It certainly hasn't been standard practice for me. I've obtained 3 of these letters in the past without any problem and no one asked for any money either. There is no government authorized fee to obtain this letter from immigration.

[Bandung_Dero]

I did a 5 year renewal in May, in and out of the UT Imm office in a few minutes with the letter, no tea money asked for or given. Did have a small problem at the Nong Han Transport office where they wanted a signed photo copy of Mare's ID card (her name is on the header page of the family book). We had given the only signed copy we had to the Imm office. No problem we did have an additional copy and the girl turned her back whilst TW placed an 'X" on it. Gave her 100 Baht to help her forget about the incident, definitely cheaper than driving an 80km round trip just for a signature!

Jack is right, one does not need a letter if he/she has a yellow book.

Note to self: Buy another ream of Double A paper and restock my photo copy supply! This country must be the scrap paper capital of the world.

[monkeyman]

No problem we did have an additional copy and the girl turned her back whilst TW placed an 'X" on it. Gave her 100 Baht to help her forget about the incident, definitely cheaper than driving an 80km round trip just for a signature!

Corruption can work for you both ways here good or bad, I think it has helped quite a few regulars on this forum out of a few sticky situations or inconveniences like Bandungs above... it a matter of striking a happy balance with yourself of what you are prepared to accept or refuse and go by the book, an example is paying small tea money for speeding instead of paying the price of going through a speed trap back in your home country.... I am sure many members on here have similar story where giving a little has helped.

Excellent and interesting post from fdimike though and you did well sticking to your guns,

[papaguido]

I think it's all a game for the IO who sits in the first chair, using her authority to try and intimidate anyone who she thinks may give in to her demands. Apparently, now she's employing a new strategy to fleece customers. She tried extort 500bt from me for a free service, but I demanded a receipt...no receipt no baht. If they want a donation, then put out a tip jar.

My last visit was for my retirement extension, she was happy smiley face until the end when I gave 1900bt in exact change and than her demeanor change...put this way if looks could kill...

[gudtymchuk]

My last visit was for my retirement extension, she was happy smiley face until the end when I gave 1900bt in exact change and than her demeanor change...put this way if looks could kill...

Pretty much the same story for me at my last retirement extension. All was smiley and congenial up to the point when she said 1900 baht but you can pay more if you want.... and I said, very graciously I might add, "no thinks, I am very happy to pay 1900baht" and handing her exactly 1900baht. No more friendly chit chat after that..... She also very forcibly suggested I pay for re-entry permit which I also declined.

[Brian Davis]

A couple of months back, as part of the process of obtaining a yellow book at the Amphoe, I had to obtain a confirmation of residence letter from Immigration. Goodness knows, I already go through the rigmarole of obtaining a marriage visa, filling in 90-day reports, all the previous paperwork and computer records should mean something, so it shouldn't be a problem. On this occasion, it wasn't. A newish, young face there dealt with the request politely and efficiently within minutes, no request for money and none given, although if not for problems previously experienced with her colleagues, I would willingly have given her some fruit, tin of biscuits etc. Not cash.

Incidentally, after some hassle over just what was required to obtain the yellow book, the Amphoe issued the yellow book efficiently. In spite of the lead officer being an absolute cracker, even my wife agreed we should return with fruit as recognition of good service. Again, other than 20 baht? for the actual book, no 'fee' requested or paid.

[monkeyman]

My last visit was for my retirement extension, she was happy smiley face until the end when I gave 1900bt in exact change and than her demeanor change...put this way if looks could kill...

Pretty much the same story for me at my last retirement extension. All was smiley and congenial up to the point when she said 1900 baht but you can pay more if you want.... and I said, very graciously I might add, "no thinks, I am very happy to pay 1900baht" and handing her exactly 1900baht. No more friendly chit chat after that..... She also very forcibly suggested I pay for re-entry permit which I also declined.

I wonder how they choose their prey? I have noticed that many others including myself (for 23 yrs) have never been asked for these fees, in fact on my last application I was missing a document and my visa was still stamped being allowed to drop the document in the next day...no extra fee or tea money was needed, a polite thank you from myself and a nice smile back.... Obviously not everyone on here has been so lucky though or had the same happy experience ... it baffles me and it will continue to do so until I have the same bad experience myself

[trubrit]

Can't say I have ever had these type of experiences. Nothing more than a tin of biscuits have I been asked for, which I politely declined on the grounds they are fattening. Don't doubt it goes on though. Seems to me a video recording of the extortioners posted on You Tube might draw some attention to the land of scams.