Fun & Games at the UT Immigration Office

[fdimike]

Today we went to renew my D/L and all went very smoothe. In an out in about 1 hour. I checked with the clerk regarding the Yellow House Book and was told that would be acceptable in place of the IO document. This was today tomorrow maybe a different rule/procedure. Anyway I'm fine now for another 5 years.

[jackspratt]

This was today tomorrow maybe a different rule/procedure.

Doesn't pay to get too cynical Mike.

As reported above, a number of people have used the yellow house book over a period of time, so it seems to be pretty established policy.

[patriot]

Dwelling on this Yellow Book matter, I have found that with some officials the thought of a Foreigner owning such a document does not compute and rejecting the application - whatever it maybe - is easier than delving deeper into the legalities.
A cantankerous individual at my amphur office informed me that this book was not available to farang, whereas her underling suggested, in a hush-hush manner, that we try the Tessabaan office. Her advice was followed and I now have said document; the squad at the Tessabaan could not have been more pleasant and helpful, who also indicated that the "Yellow Book" is as good a Proof of Residence as anything.

[papaguido]

I wonder how they choose their prey? I have noticed that many others including myself (for 23 yrs) have never been asked for these fees, in fact on my last application I was missing a document and my visa was still stamped being allowed to drop the document in the next day...no extra fee or tea money was needed, a polite thank you from myself and a nice smile back.... Obviously not everyone on here has been so lucky though or had the same happy experience ... it baffles me and it will continue to do so until I have the same bad experience myself

I think for this particular IO it's kind of a game to her. Kind of like fishing, she'll cast her line and see who bites. However, I've never received this treatment by other IO's from this office.

[papaguido]

The conversation was pleasant and pretty much a repeat of what was said outside his office. After about 15 minutes he finally admitted that they could not give us a receipt because there was no charge to obtain this document and it would be up to us if we wanted to “give” money to buy lunch for the interns and maybe some coffee for the office. He then apologized profusely saying that he had heard about this 500Baht “fee” but didn’t know anything about it.

I was there this past July to have my visa/extension transferred to a new passport. Upon completion she (IO sits in first chair) returned my passports and asked for 500bt. I remembered that some other forum members had posted they were asked for 300bt for the same service. So I challenged her and asked for a receipt. She said no receipt and I replied no receipt no baht. While she was processing my passport I noticed a photo of an IO, his title "Inspector for Udon Immigration", his phone number and something to the effect stating he should be contacted for complaints.

Anyway, I jotted down his information for just "in case". Later, I related my experience to my wife and asked if I should complain or at the very least make him aware of the situation. My wife ended up calling and speaking to him and pretty much gave her the same song and dance that was given to you. He admitted there is no fee for this service and that the IO was merely asking for a donation, which they sometimes do, but it's up to me to donate or not.

Bottom line is making these occurrences public so others are aware...having a visa/extension transferred from an expired passport to a new passport is a FREE service...

[RLTrader]

I should add that the last time I renewed my retirement, got hit with 100 baht fee for copies of obscure pages of my passport, and of course the receipt was still for only 1900 baht.

Starting to sound like a new policy.

I had read somewhere before something like what happen to me above. Not much you can do, for each officer can see different copy requirements and she did make 2 copies.

Have renewed about 5 times now, and each time I make 1 stack of paperwork for them and 1 stack for me, and the following year pull out my copies and make a new 1 for them with the one page addition for them and me. This year I am 2 pages short, for I have the foggiest idea what she copied.

Prior, the obscure pages she asked if I had copies of were not needed, so of course I didn't have copies. We both knew it was a game she played to get a 100 baht tip.

If I knew this was going to happen again, I would copy every dam page and watch her face when she asked if I had copies and I open my case and brought out a stack of copies. A MasterCard moment, one could say.

[fdimike]

Papa

I think what you did was exactly what everyone should do to help bring this practice to a halt.

[papaguido]

Papa

I think what you did was exactly what everyone should do to help bring this practice to a halt.

I doubt that it will come to a halt, not with people out there afraid to challenge the IO's for fear of reprisals.

[trubrit]

Papa

I think what you did was exactly what everyone should do to help bring this practice to a halt.

I doubt that it will come to a halt, not with people out there afraid to challenge the IO's for fear of reprisals.

I don't think it's fear of reprisal, just simply .is it worth the hassle for such small money. It is only once a year anyway.

[RLTrader]

Oh, just remember. On the way to renew Visa, I needed to stop and get 1900 baht (correct change) wife said to stop at Vietnam and use that ATM. While I went to the ATM, she went to Vietnam and came back with a bag. I ask why, well she explained last year when I had her draw the required map, she couldn't either, so women said don't worry, that she would do it for us. So she was bring the Vietnam bag for her.
Problem was same women was not there. Also I now do a google map.

[parrot]

Didn't immigration, at one time, have a menu of services, with costs listed? That would come in handy in cases like these....I'd keep it next to my passport. Anyone?

The makeup/watch lady at Nongkai pulled similar stunts......checking all your papers, stamping everything, carrying on a friendly conversation.....then when all was just about done, and with your completed passport next to here hands, she'd inquire if you were interested in a lovely wristwatch or some makeup/soap. My wife always politely declined, saying her skin was too sensitive or that she already had a drawer full of watches. Never an issue.....but I'm sure lots of people fell into the trap of thinking it was obligatory.

When faced with the '100 baht for copies', I'm reminded of one occasion, years ago in Nongkai, when we were missing a copy of a document. According to the official, their copier was not working and we had to go into town to get a copy. We ended up going nearly to the bridge to find a copy machine and headed back.....then had to wait until our official was done servicing the next customer. If I'm missing a document and need a copy, I've no problem with paying for the service (even though 100 baht is worth a lot of copies).
I'd like to think that if enough people bring this sort of thing to the head honcho's attention, the requests for donations will cease. If the head honcho had any play in the requests, you'd expect all the officials to ask for the same.....but it appears just the one woman is doing it.

Hat's off to those who stood their ground!! And hat's off for bringing it to everyone's attention so we can all be prepared (with exact change) when we go to immigration.

I went today with 90 day checks for myself and my wife.......the wife stayed home......the official asked me where my wife was and I told him she was busy at home. No problem....both 90 day forms stamped. In and out in less than 10 minutes.

[udonthani]

yeah, I remember her from old days in Nongkhai, Udon is fine I have never had my wife with me for 90 days show, Udon has always been very polite, smiling and helpful, I remember some time 1year ago I was asking for 8 days extension, and they say only 8 days, we will give you 30 days, just as an precaution, price is the same 1.900,- Thumbs up for Udon =D>

[papaguido]

The following is a recent post from the other forum...I suspect the scamming is isolated to one certain IO and not the entire office.

Hopefully an off day. It took over an hour to transfer old visa from old passport, to new passport. Sadder yet, I was tended to 5 minutes after arriving. The main scammer seemed to be the only one conscious. Intern students were dumb as rocks, and I’m being kind. 90 day reporting agent must have been super glued to the chair, and no assistance at all, and no customers to serve. Must be a union thing.

Must have been planning a good weekend, asked for 1000 baht, no receipt, so quickly down to 500. Little lady wasted 10 minutes on top of the hour, basically telling the scammer, it wasn’t going to work. I put the passports in my pocket and started walking out when she 1st asked for 1000. No receipt, no baht, arrest me.

Tip to make conversation short: Told her we were already informed by sathorn office in bkk, dialed 1111, that it is a free service, and I almost heard her heart hit the floor. Then had the gall to imply maybe a 100 tip would be agreeable. Wouldn’t be a possibility even if I was going to tip, as the service didn’t warrant anything but a tough lashing. I was still courteous, but sure she could tell, disappointed with her style.

That’s a first, as usually prompt and courteous service with a smile. The extremely efficient and knowledgeable staff must have left for an early weekend party. Renew visa in February, and hope they are back to normal.

[Brian Davis]

Didn't immigration, at one time, have a menu of services, with costs listed?

Immediate apologies for waffling on below, but I think it’s still relevant to the topic and life here.

Parrot - I have a recollection that I saw such at Nong Khai, when I used to go there – perhaps part of their guidance leaflets.

Of course, it’s something which SHOULD be available at all Immigration Offices. But then I also hope for clear, consistent, updated information on procedures and the same interpretation of the rules between all Officers, even in the same office. Yeah, well …..

We often hear that Immigration/Police Officers pursue unofficial monies because their salaries aren’t high enough. I’ve no idea what sort of salary scale exists. Whilst I’ve suggested that reasonable charges for services, performance pay etc. might help with an increase in wages and encourage some to play it ‘straight’, I’d be naïve to think that in a society that’s very corrupt, that Officers would still not seek extra by whatever means. After all, everyone else is ‘at it’. Paying ‘to get something done’ or receiving when you’re in some position of influence is inherent in Thailand from grass roots to the very top. Just where would you start to change that? How do you alter habits of a lifetime? A fairer society would surely be generations away.

In a country I’ve chosen to make my home, I try not to take things too seriously, but failing miserably on occasions. I have to smile when I see officials of all kinds proudly parading in their uniforms, with more ribbons than a war veteran, creating the image that they’re upstanding citizens. Only to return to their positions of authority, working under pictures/portraits of rather important revered people, but abusing the positions they hold. So two-faced. And if somebody is actually subject to discipline? – and it can’t be easily swept under the carpet. Well, be it the army, politicians, government officials, teachers – probably not dismissed, but moved to another location, inactive post, retaining salary/pension rights, gardening/golf leave etc. How farcical it all is.

So, whilst I do try to stand my ground with Immigration on ‘tea money’ (car payments, room rent, holidays, eating, shopping, if you prefer) I cannot but feel I’m banging my head against a wall.

[Bouph]

[jackspratt]

There is a list of fees applicable on the Immigration Bureau website:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en ... p?page=fee

Thanks for the list Bouph.

Interesting that the fees appear to have remained the same since 2003 - certainly can't say that of Oz, and I doubt that anyone else could say it of their own home country.

Small blessings I guess. =D>

[rjb]

There is more than one scam at that office. The female officer with the nice personality, pretty smile sitting by the post is as quick as any good conman. When I renewed by visa and gave her 2,000 baht I was waiting for my change, then asked for my change and was informed she wanted it to help pay for the copy machine or supplies or some b s. I started to get a bit upset, tired of the crap scheme to get money from foreigners from these gov't offices. My wife interceded to tell me she told the officer to keep the 100 baht when the officer asked for it for the purpose already described. Several of these so called fees or donations could add to a healthy amount of tea or lunch money for them.
Kind of reminds me of the cadre at the basic training company that sold the same buffer to each batch of new recruits.

[fdimike]

Tea money my butt. She's probably ripped off enough to make a down payment on a new car. Rule of thumb - always have the exact change along with spare 100 & 20 baht notes for whatever comes along and always get a receipt.

[Brian Davis]

I appreciate there's repetition of other topics here, but my calculations indicate these unofficial payments add up to a very nice sum.
Let's just say an officer sees only five applicants per day (probably a lot more) and is able to extract just 100 baht from each with various excuses(larger sums contributed are often mentioned by posters e.g. I was asked for 700 baht for a free service). If the officer works 20 days per month, that's 10,000 baht, well worth having in my opinion. And that, I think, is about the minimum which might be expected!
I understand the office arrangements might mean the money is pooled, senior get a %age etc. That only shows me that they're all working the system; more people to get a cut, but then more in the 'kitty'.

[KB_Texas]

Went in this morning for a 90 day report, and was out in 15 minutes. It would have been 5 minutes, but I am farang and when someone hands me a queue number, I wait for it to be called. As a result, number 14 and 15 were processed before me. No hints at donations or fees or anything else, just smiling faces and efficient work.

Just today's take on events.

KB