Thai versus farang Education systems

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Farang1
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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Farang1 » July 5, 2009, 3:47 pm

I say self centered, having used for children 3/4 Thai schools in Udon ( correction ) paid for their use by the wifes children, their knowledge decreased not increased, you cannot teach english in Thai
In the States, if you took a foreign language class, within a couple weeks, the teacher will only be speaking in that language.

I have been telling my wife this over the past 3 years we have been married. She's a teacher. But, that is the way they have been taught to teach. I have paid to have the kids go to tutors to learn English. The kids understand some of what I say but, won't speak English because they are afraid of making a mistake. (I have to admit, I am the same way with Thai.) My oldest graduates from university with a degree in Tourism and Hotel management next March. I told him early on he could work just about anywhere in the world if he learned English. He didn't take my advice. I figure, once he gets his degree, he'll go out and drive truck.

English is the world language of business, computer, aviation, etc. If they want to get anywhere, they will need to learn it.



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WBU ALUM
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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by WBU ALUM » July 5, 2009, 4:06 pm

Farang1 wrote:In the States, if you took a foreign language class, within a couple weeks, the teacher will only be speaking in that language.
True. And it happens in some schools on the very first day.

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Khun Paul » July 7, 2009, 9:13 pm

Tilokarat, I noted your comments with interest, it always amazes me that whenever one wishes to test the Students invariably the Thai teachers comments is, 'It is too hard', one always then assumes either the teacher has no idea what they are talking about or that we the farang's try to terst their students with the aim of noting their shortfalls so that they can be addressed .
I have over the past few weeks looked at and provided answers for a number of English tests put out by the Edication Authorities ( if I remember correctly) University English Exam, now not only were some of the questions ambiguous,( which in many Thai exams they are ) but also one or two of the questions had me sctraching my head and I reached for my dictionary, which no Thai student would have in order to understand the word.
Now if that is not bad enopugh when speaking to the M6 teacher, she stated that the answers would be right or near enough depending on how the students interpret the question and Thai culture.
After that being completely flummoxed, I said 'I see' , not being able at that precise moment in time to offer anything more succinct, I just handed back the paper with a smile.
So I rest my case, one does not state Thai education is bad, far from it, but the way the knowledge is imparted is at best good but so often only adequate in in many cases woefully poor. It is that that needs to be addressed together with a motivation for the children to want to learn.
Answers please on a Izal toilet roll ( being the only toilet paper one can write on ) and is also long enough .

Hopefully I used my spell checker this time, sorry if not always ok chaps.

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Aardvark » July 8, 2009, 3:33 pm

Get a new spell checker 8)

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Khun Paul » July 9, 2009, 7:04 am

Yep tell the web site owner then OK............lol

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by saint » July 9, 2009, 8:53 am

im going out on a limb here , but is it realy in the elites interest to educate the population in general to a higher level . dont educated people start to ask why ? besides , who is going to plant the rice , if the next generation are so well educated ? the key is to be seen to be doing something posative for the people , without actually doing it !!!!!!!!! that way you maintain control !!!!!!

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by BKKSTAN » July 9, 2009, 9:46 am

saint wrote:im going out on a limb here , but is it realy in the elites interest to educate the population in general to a higher level . dont educated people start to ask why ? besides , who is going to plant the rice , if the next generation are so well educated ? the key is to be seen to be doing something posative for the people , without actually doing it !!!!!!!!! that way you maintain control !!!!!!
:lol: That is the limb I sit on too :lol:

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Aardvark » July 9, 2009, 9:51 am

You can't repress the poor farmers for ever :(

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by laphanphon » July 9, 2009, 12:22 pm

that limb must be very strong, because i think most will agree that is one major reason the education system remains..stagnant...no new funds, salary, incentives to do a better job. :(

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by BKKSTAN » July 9, 2009, 3:51 pm

IMO,money thrown at the system to increase salaries&benefits,building more schools ,adding new programs,etc.etc. will not change the product outcome.They need to change the entire ''software'' of the system!
Teaching methods of group participation by qualified trained teachers in the system would be the number 1 goal within a smaller curriculum of subject matter repeated daily including labs for practice sessions.Lesson plans laid out initially and followed religiously to allow for student preparation and follow through!

Regular scheduled parent /teacher conferences to discuss childs needs and progress is a must if there is to be any sincerity shown in an interest to educate!

Teacher trainees should serve internships as group ''helpers''in classrooms during their schooling,giving more control of the classroom environment and helping older retrained teachers to focus on the new techniques,not slipping back into the ''old ways''!

Retrained teachers should be monitored and evaluated without notice with job performance expectations and salary increases as motivation factors.Noncomplying teachers should be phased out!

In the same spirit,student expectations should be raised!Counselors,trained in motivation and evaluation techniques are needed!

Failing should be an option for students and teachers,with support systems to help them succeed.No cheating allowed!

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Khun Paul » July 9, 2009, 10:09 pm

Failing should be an option for students and teachers,with support systems to help them succeed.No cheating allowed!
Educational Utopia in Thailand............that I doubt...........................sad really.

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by tutone » July 10, 2009, 1:06 pm

This should tell you something about the Thai education system. A university student I know is taking a class in business English, but she cannot read English well enough to understand the text and workbook, which in my opinion is about 7th or 8th grade level in the U.S. I'm not saying that any Thai should know how to speak English, but how can a Thai university student be enrolled in this sort of class without a prerequisite level of English? She shows me her homework (I think she wants me to actually do it) and I say, "Well, read this and fill in the blanks based on what you read." She has no clue. So I say "take this word and write it in this blank" which she can do but I do not really think she understands what she is doing. When I ask her if her instructor can help her she says "No, have to finish today so he can check." I think she passes all of her classes.

laphanphon

Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by laphanphon » July 10, 2009, 1:38 pm

Ree has a teacher friend, and she is/was taking advance classes, not sure if for self or if working on doctorate, but wanted me to explain her work to her, as it was all in english. as above, her english was even close enough to read and understand. i personally would of had a hard time explaining, as i myself could understand, but a bit above me, i am not the sharpest tack, would of needed to look up a few words to verify what i thought was right. it was a psychology class w/stats on types of education practices, so not sure if something mandatory from school system, which i doubt, or just a class she needed for advanced paperwork. but no way could i explain it to her in any way that she would understand, plus didn't want to get hooked into a repeat performance every week.

but point taken, how can they learn it, and expect to teach it. system needs a major overhaul. first would be re-educating the teachers, and see if they can understand and pass the tests they are giving their students. you have to wonder sometimes.

this taking nothing away from those attempting to improve others lives by teaching, some very successful, others, doing the best with what they know and can, and many succeeding with the proper students. then sadly, there are those that can't do the job, no matter how much the care or try, and of course, those that have no interest and should of never been allowed to teach.

glad i grew up in the states in the 60/70's, as schools aren't fairing much better there now, as compared to when i attended................that dumbing down thing again, and working superbly.

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by tom1941 » July 28, 2009, 7:19 pm

laphanphon wrote:let's' make sure we are talking private or gov't school, as the difference is night and day. i was actually impressed with some of the math the daughter was learning in private school in udon. but the the rest wasn't impressive at all. english is non existent.
I do agree that the private schools are better but why, because some thai family can pay for education, cannot get the teachers because no money from the gods of class destinction etc all the kids have brains but no chance TOM volunteer

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Re: Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Michael C » July 31, 2009, 9:02 am

BKKSTAN wrote:Teacher trainees should serve internships as group ''helpers''in classrooms during their schooling,giving more control of the classroom environment and helping older retrained teachers to focus on the new techniques,not slipping back into the ''old ways''!
In my last two semesters teaching, I was given three teacher trainees to work with. Their time working with me was mostly spent observing, but I also helped with their lesson plans for periods of instruction that they were to give. In addition to that, they had to spend time with a counterpart Thai teacher. I met and spoke with the university professor evaluating them for their teaching certification on a number of occasions; she was very sharp and what they are taught is not much different than what we are taught in the west for giving periods of instruction. Has anyone else had the opportunity to actually see what the teacher trainees go through and are taught in order to receive their teaching certification?

Many post-graduate education programmes here in Thailand are very English language intensive, especially when it relates to sciences and necessarily so, because most of the literature is now in English; this was not always the case. For an example, Chulalongkorn University requires the passing of a rather difficult English examination for entrance into their post-graduate science programmes and this will no doubt be followed by other universities in Thailand. Many Thai post-graduate students, especial doctoral and post-doctoral, are sent abroad for part of their studies (just as many are in the west) to conduct research; these students cannot and are not sent if they do not have a proficiency in English or the language of the country that they are sent to. I was in the field on my last trip with such a PhD student who is going abroad to conduct microbiology research, the subject of her thesis.

Although people can come up with an example here and there, one could come up with an unbelievable number of American examples of university graduates and even a number of post-graduate students that have not mastered their own native language and butcher its grammar, with the excuse: “English was not my major.” It appears that I pick on Americans, but it is just the example that I know of first hand and who else can boast of a university that is ‘accredited’ which teaches the earth is only 6,000 years old and man co-existed with dinosaurs? :shock:

I do agree that the schools have not appeared to get any better back in the US. Since they did not have ‘advanced placement’ at the time I was in high school, I took a number of college classes in my junior and senior year, because I was not satisfied with how much I was learning. Everything through the high school level appears to be set up for the lowest common denominator, because one must remember that any failed students are the fault of the teacher :roll: (could not possibly be because a student has no drive or interest in learning).

Of course, most private schools are better than most public schools. Is this any different anywhere else in the world, except some of those that are ideological in nature? Not all public schools are bad. Some of the students I had in the public school that I taught at consisted of the children wealthy business owners, high ranking military and police officers, children of MPs and one was even the son of a Supreme Court judge (among my best students); so, public school in this case must not have been considered too bad.

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Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 4, 2013, 4:07 am

It is true that the farang education system is superior to that available in most Thai schools, but the following article gives one pause to think that standards in the West are not always the best:
Edmonton teacher faces termination hearing for ‘obvious neglect of duty’ after giving zeros to students

Jake Edmiston | Aug 30, 2012 8:04 PM ET | Last Updated: Aug 31, 2012 11:59 AM ET

Rick MacWilliam / Postmedia NewsLynden Dorval was suspended for going against the school's no-zero policy when grading students' tests..

Lynden Dorval, Edmonton’s Mr. Zero, gets a lesson in school conduct

When students, as they sometimes do, decide they don’t like a school policy and make a show of defiance — showing up in the T-shirt they were told to leave at home, or with the pink punk haircut that violates the dress code — my general reaction is that they should quit making a spectacle of themselves and do what they’re told. There are rules in society; if you object there are established procedures for communicating and dealing with that fact. It’s hogwash to argue, as is too often done, that any hindrance on an individual’s ability to do whatever they please is somehow a violation of fundamental rights.

Mr. Dorval’s view on the policy was correct: it’s ridiculous to teach students that they can fail to do the work and still get the reward. But respect works both ways: you want it from the students, you have to give it to the principal.

More from Kelly McParland…

Before the courier came to his suburban Edmonton home this week with a letter explaining that his boss wants him fired, high school teacher Lynden Dorval thought his principal had bowed to the media firestorm.

Three months ago, Mr. Dorval went public with his struggle against Ross Sheppard High School’s no-zero policy, making him a lightning rod for a debate on how to teach a generation often billed as having a sense of entitlement.

But on Tuesday, the letter from the superintendent of Edmonton Public Schools informed him his principal, Ron Bradley, requested his termination for “his obvious neglect of duty as a professional teacher, his repeated insubordination and his continued refusal to obey lawful orders.”

Mr. Dorval, 61, is scheduled to appear before superintendent Edgar Schmidt to plead his case next month.

“I had convinced myself with all the publicity that I wasn’t actually going to get fired,” he said. “From the very beginning, I kept telling myself that this was going to be the outcome. But I guess I convinced myself that something else might happen.”

The physics teacher, who colleagues called Captain Zero, spent 18 months disobeying the school’s rule against doling out zeros to students who didn’t complete assignments or tests, which school management sees as a discipline issue, not an academic one.


Mr. Dorval was put on an indefinite suspension after refusing to heed several warnings and reprimands from the school principal — according to the principal’s recommendation, the teacher once went as far as going into the school’s grades database and reentering zero marks that had been changed by a department head.

News of Mr. Dorval’s suspension prompted a public outcry.

“The students need to develop that intrinsic motivation to do it on their own,” said Mr. Dorval, who has been teaching for 35 years.

Mr. Bradley, who spearheaded the school policy, was unavailable for comment Thursday. But according to letters from the principal about Mr. Dorval’s case, the impetus of the program was to avoid discouraging students and to “hold students accountable for completion of work.”

The Edmonton Public Schools board voted in June to review its policies on student assessment “to ensure clarity, consistency and to ensure that students are held to high standards.” That investigation is scheduled for this fall.

But ahead of that review, Mr. Dorval is scheduled to appear Sept. 10 before the superintendent to address the principal’s calls for his termination.

Edmonton school board spokeswoman Cheryl Oxford couldn’t comment on the specifics of Mr. Dorval’s case due to privacy issues. But Ms. Oxford said the dismissal is an employment issue ­— unrelated to the board’s review of its grading policies.

In his letter to the superintendent, the principal said Mr. Dorval was repeatedly absence in staff meetings — a claim Mr. Dorval says is untrue.

The veteran teacher also sent a staff-wide email condemning the no zero policy, Mr. Bradley said.

“I advised Mr. Dorval that I was not disputing his professional right to express his opinion but … I found his tone and method of communication insubordinate,” Mr. Bradley wrote.

Following the suspension, the principal reported that Mr. Dorval entered the school without requesting permission — part of the terms of his suspension — twice to return unmarked quizzes and assignments, and once to voice concerns about his replacement teacher, Mr. Bradley wrote.

In June, Mr. Dorval told the National Post he chose to fight the policy, in part, because he was planning to retire anyway. But he has decided to continue teaching, regardless of the Sept. 10 decision — because when he was told to clear out his office, he was in the midst of the best semester he’d had in a decade.

“It’s kind of ironic, I had thought about retiring many times until last semester,” he said. “I’ve reconsidered my retirement plan for at least a couple of years.”

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Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by parrot » February 17, 2013, 8:55 am

Andrew Biggs discusses the O-Net entrance exam at
http://www.bangkokpost.com/lifestyle/fa ... -the-o-net

If I didn't know any better, I'd think he makes this stuff up........he doesn't!

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Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by jackspratt » February 17, 2013, 9:19 am

parrot wrote:Andrew Biggs discusses the O-Net entrance exam at
http://www.bangkokpost.com/lifestyle/fa ... -the-o-net

If I didn't know any better, I'd think he makes this stuff up........he doesn't!
While I agree with Biggs that the O-Net is appalling, it would seem that (based on his final sentence re the origin of massaman curry) he most likely would have failed. :shock: :D

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Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by parrot » September 8, 2013, 11:57 am

With young people like Netiwit Chotiphatphaisal, there might be a glimmer of hope for future generations.


Please credit and share this article with others using this link:http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... ut-the-boy. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

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Thai versus farang Education systems

Post by trubrit » September 8, 2013, 4:08 pm

It can't be all that brilliant in the UK right now, unless its the kids at fault . The government has just announced with immediate effect that only those with upwards of "C' grade in maths and English will be allowed to leave school. Lower than that you must continue in education until you achieve a "C' or higher .Don't know how that's going to work though, can see some old looking students sitting at the desks. :-"
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