Im just in the process of constructing a house and have beEn given the option of two types of construction material for the blockwork.
It's either standard concrete blocks or“ autoclaved aerated concrete”, which type is best?
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
AAC blocks are better (IMO), but more expensive.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Thanks for that Steve - anymore exeriences anyone ?
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
We use Q-Con or AAC blocks on internal walls only and not in wet areas, bathrooms, laundrys etc. They have good insulation qualitys but there are certain methods you must follow, use Webber tile adhesive to glue them together and before rendering apply webber tile adhesive over the entire area with a grooved trowell about 3mm thick, when dry that will give you a good key to hold the render, we use this method with concrete blocks also, they have a tendancy to crack easy, if the wind catches a door and slams it shut with force etc. If your building a normal Udon house I wouldnt bother, I didnt, to expensive, what I would bother with is your block selection, different yards have different quality ie cement content = strength, some blocks crumble in your fingers where others ***** when you hit them together, try and use 90mm wide blocks if you can find them.
-
Tracechain
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 215
- Joined: June 25, 2011, 3:38 pm
- Location: The number to call is BR549.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
PM me if you wish and then come out to my place, especially when it is HOT. I can let you see or feel how comfortable certain portions of the house are. This way you can see (feel) first hand how the instulation is on the use of the Q-Con block. Downside is that they are kinda weak and do crack easily. Guess this is influenced by how your builder installs.
Hit 'em hard, hit 'em fast, hit 'em with the one they don't expect, and just keep hitting.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Many thanks for the above offer which is great but I'm in the uk at the moment. But great advice.
Thank you
Thank you
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Q-Con or AAC blocks are stronger, lighter and have a better insulation value over the grey concrete blocks (breeze blocks). You can also drill and hammer nails into AAC, you can't do this with grey blocks so this is something to bear in mind if you're planning on installing shelves, air-con etc. AAC can be sawed to fit gaps, with grey blocks you have to fill the gaps with red bricks.
The R value for a 7cm thick AAC block is 3.25, the grey block has an R value of only 1. Red brick has an R value of 0.4.
You can use standard mortar for grey blocks so any builder can work with them, whereas ACC blocks require their own special glue and not all builders know how to work with them. ACC glue is more expensive than standard mortar however you use less of it, basically there is only a very thin layer between each block.
Grey blocks are cheaper, some places sell them for 4.5bt each, AAC were 22bt each when I was building last yea, I believe the prices have increased this year.
I did some calculations on price per sqm for each block including materials and labour:
7cm Q Con Block - 422bt per sqm (r value 3.25)
20cm Q Con Block - 734bt per sqm (r value 8.7)
Red brick - 202bt per sqm (r value 0.4)
Grey blocks - 179bt per sqm (r value 1)
Double grey block wall with fiber glass in gap - 406bt per sqm (r value 9.5)
The R value for a 7cm thick AAC block is 3.25, the grey block has an R value of only 1. Red brick has an R value of 0.4.
You can use standard mortar for grey blocks so any builder can work with them, whereas ACC blocks require their own special glue and not all builders know how to work with them. ACC glue is more expensive than standard mortar however you use less of it, basically there is only a very thin layer between each block.
Grey blocks are cheaper, some places sell them for 4.5bt each, AAC were 22bt each when I was building last yea, I believe the prices have increased this year.
I did some calculations on price per sqm for each block including materials and labour:
7cm Q Con Block - 422bt per sqm (r value 3.25)
20cm Q Con Block - 734bt per sqm (r value 8.7)
Red brick - 202bt per sqm (r value 0.4)
Grey blocks - 179bt per sqm (r value 1)
Double grey block wall with fiber glass in gap - 406bt per sqm (r value 9.5)
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Concrete blocks can be cut to fit the same as Q-Con, only lazy people infill with red bricks, we always cut and fit and keep it neat and tidy, our masons are as good as Aussie brickies, as far as strength is concerned, concrete blocks are much stronger, you have the option of concrete core filling with rebar, attaching concrete sills, columns and lintels over windows and doorways is far better with concrete blocks as you can tie in much easier, I dont like the 65mm blocks though, go for 90mm, Q-Con used externally is not advisable. You can drive a nail into a Q-Con but they have special plugs to use for fixing, nails will eventually fall out. We still use Q-Con internally and they are good though.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Coxo
Can you please tell me where you've bought true CONCRETE BLOCK here in Thailand? I have seen, lightweight aerated concrete block, grey cinder block & a load bearing 3 hole heavy red brick made from cement & red clay. The grey cinder block hasn't been used in the US for probably 20-30 years now because it isn't strucurally sound. In its place came concrete block made from concrete which is load bearing for housing construction.
When you say "Concrete blocks can be cut to fit the same as Q-Con" I assume you're talking about using a wet saw for precisely cutting the concrete block because a true concrete block is heavy & is not easily cut with a trowel or brick hammer unless you're talking about rough cuts. Q Con block & Super Block aerated concrete block can be easily & precisely cut with a hand saw. It also "carves" easily to fit around pipes etc.
I don't recall seeing any masons in the US using a nail to secure anything in a concrete block of any kind. The preferrred method would be to drill out a hole and use a plastic/lead shield and then a screw into either. There are a number of other types of anchors available to use with concrete blocks (exterior & interior) of all kinds depending on what you want to secure, a nail is not one of them.
Here's what a true concrete block looks like:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/concr ... _1731.html
Please let me know if you've seen anything like this in Thailand.
Can you please tell me where you've bought true CONCRETE BLOCK here in Thailand? I have seen, lightweight aerated concrete block, grey cinder block & a load bearing 3 hole heavy red brick made from cement & red clay. The grey cinder block hasn't been used in the US for probably 20-30 years now because it isn't strucurally sound. In its place came concrete block made from concrete which is load bearing for housing construction.
When you say "Concrete blocks can be cut to fit the same as Q-Con" I assume you're talking about using a wet saw for precisely cutting the concrete block because a true concrete block is heavy & is not easily cut with a trowel or brick hammer unless you're talking about rough cuts. Q Con block & Super Block aerated concrete block can be easily & precisely cut with a hand saw. It also "carves" easily to fit around pipes etc.
I don't recall seeing any masons in the US using a nail to secure anything in a concrete block of any kind. The preferrred method would be to drill out a hole and use a plastic/lead shield and then a screw into either. There are a number of other types of anchors available to use with concrete blocks (exterior & interior) of all kinds depending on what you want to secure, a nail is not one of them.
Here's what a true concrete block looks like:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/concr ... _1731.html
Please let me know if you've seen anything like this in Thailand.
An ex-pat in the Land of Smile
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Really useful replies, thanks.
I'm building for the first time in Thailand, so making mistakes and learning so all info is really useful.
I want to build more houses, so the experience you are sharing is appreciated .
I'm building for the first time in Thailand, so making mistakes and learning so all info is really useful.
I want to build more houses, so the experience you are sharing is appreciated .
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Easiest way to explain is with a photo, this is how we do it and why I believe concrete blocks are still better than Q-Con, even though we are using Q-Con, Im sure a bit old fashioned but Q-Con crack to much, render has a tendancy to get drummy, I dont trust the fixings for door frames etc, I prefer fixing to solid reinforced concrete for doors and windows as we do in the photos. Top blocks to beams we cut with an angle grinder, dry, we have a wet saw but the blocks can loose strength when wet and when laying and being tapped into position, we dont use red bricks on an angle! The best blocks in Thailand are C-Pac, as far as I know they are not available in Udon but you can get them delivered from Bangkok, in Phuket we sourced what we wanted and then have them made to our spec, my house in Udon I found a manufacturer 30km from Udon heading towards Nong Khai and in to the left, good quality blocks. Blocks are not load bearing but if you use 140mm and core fill with rebar they could be, I would stay with the post beam structure method and just infill with blocks. A true concrete block, no such thing, you either have hollows or solids, thats it. Some of the specified Q-Con fixings are nails that go through a plug which makes the nail hook at the end to lock it in and stop it pulling out, just like a fish hook, normal plastic plugs and screw are useless after time.
For the record we do not follow Thai construction practice at all, we build to international standards, all our workers have been with us over 7 years and have learned correct building practice's, our labour camp won awards from the Phuket Governer, we do it as I was taught as a tradesman in Australia.
For the record we do not follow Thai construction practice at all, we build to international standards, all our workers have been with us over 7 years and have learned correct building practice's, our labour camp won awards from the Phuket Governer, we do it as I was taught as a tradesman in Australia.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
We used Superblock with small columns, beams & lintels both inside and outside. The Superblock provides significantly more insulating & soundproofing than the concrete block in your pics. The contractor used the Superblock recommended joint cement & trowel as well. We've had no problems with the construction at all. The only problem we encountered during construction was trying to make the workers understand that you can't lay on a 1 inch layer of stucco on the Superblock in one step and expect it to bond. A scratch coat is necessary and then several more layers until the desired thickness is achieved. It's all explained in English & Thai on the bag of cement but getting anyone to read instructions in this country is like trying to move a mountain with a hand shovel!
In Florida most contractors use standard 6 inch concrete block with a plastic sheet vapor barrier on the inside of the exterior wall. This is folloed by fiberglass/styrofoam insulation because the block alone is a poor insulator whether or not the cells are filled with concrete. The interior wall is typically drywall. Exterior walls are normally insulated to a minimum R-19 value. They also install rebar in all the corners in order to tie the roof to the slab. Concrete block in the US is load bearing on its own for home construction.
Concrete blocks come in two forms- hollows & solids. This is a true concrete block. I've seen neither here in Thailand but will take a look on the Nong Khai highway. The only block I've seen is cinderblock which are just pure garbage which is why they stopped using them man years ago in the US. True concrete block in the US (made from concrete) are normally load bearing on their own for purposes of home construction. Many contractors will add rebar and fill some of the cells to add additional stiffness and to meet building code requirements.
I'm cycling (bicycle) to Nong Khai this weekend and will be on the lookout for concrete block. I would love to get my hands on some as they can be really useful around the house & garden.
I have to disagree with you regarding the usefullness of plastic plugs Superblock or Q-Con. They work just fine do not loosen and will last forever. However, when it came time to hang our aircon units on the exterior wall the contractor wisely had them hung on the reinforced concrete columns and beams. The interior units were hung right on the Superblock.
The pics you sent certainly do depict far superior construction methods than what I've seen in this country since moving here 6 years ago. It sort of reminds what I saw growing up in New York and working with my Dad who who was a construction supervisor and built more schools than I can recall in the city.
In Florida most contractors use standard 6 inch concrete block with a plastic sheet vapor barrier on the inside of the exterior wall. This is folloed by fiberglass/styrofoam insulation because the block alone is a poor insulator whether or not the cells are filled with concrete. The interior wall is typically drywall. Exterior walls are normally insulated to a minimum R-19 value. They also install rebar in all the corners in order to tie the roof to the slab. Concrete block in the US is load bearing on its own for home construction.
Concrete blocks come in two forms- hollows & solids. This is a true concrete block. I've seen neither here in Thailand but will take a look on the Nong Khai highway. The only block I've seen is cinderblock which are just pure garbage which is why they stopped using them man years ago in the US. True concrete block in the US (made from concrete) are normally load bearing on their own for purposes of home construction. Many contractors will add rebar and fill some of the cells to add additional stiffness and to meet building code requirements.
I'm cycling (bicycle) to Nong Khai this weekend and will be on the lookout for concrete block. I would love to get my hands on some as they can be really useful around the house & garden.
I have to disagree with you regarding the usefullness of plastic plugs Superblock or Q-Con. They work just fine do not loosen and will last forever. However, when it came time to hang our aircon units on the exterior wall the contractor wisely had them hung on the reinforced concrete columns and beams. The interior units were hung right on the Superblock.
The pics you sent certainly do depict far superior construction methods than what I've seen in this country since moving here 6 years ago. It sort of reminds what I saw growing up in New York and working with my Dad who who was a construction supervisor and built more schools than I can recall in the city.
An ex-pat in the Land of Smile
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Coxo, those concrete blocks look a lot stronger than the common grey block you find all over the place. What are the dimensions and where do you buy them in Udon?coxo wrote:Easiest way to explain is with a photo, this is how we do it and why I believe concrete blocks are still better than Q-Con
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Yes they are, the width of concrete beside the frog or hole is a lot thicker than what you can get in Udon and the concrete mix is also stronger, these are the same spec as C-Pac, the only way to get them in Udon would be through
C-Pac in Bangkok, possibly the C-Pac office in Udon could organise it although they tend to act as seperate companys.
We are paying per block 10.7 baht including VAT, the Udon block is 4.5 to 5 baht per block, a lot cheaper however if you work out the cost per house using these quality blocks the increase in total outlay isnt that great, ie, 6,000 blocks for an average house = 6,000 X 5 thb = 30,000 thb compared to 6,000 X 10.7 = 64,200 thb, 34,000 thb extra when spending say 2 million to build isnt much for the gains you get in strength, if you are concealing electric and water in walls you will avoid cracks in walls where they chase and cut grooves to install, we run most of our conduits up the centre hole to avoid cracked render in the finished wall later. They are the standard 200mm High X 400mm Long but 90mm Wide, Udon blocks are all 65mm Wide which is way to thin for a single skin wall.
I would be interested to see if you can get them up there, with a lot of regret now I was slack and used the 65mm Udon block on my house up there, I beefed up the render to 30mm thick each side to try and add some strength but its not the same.
C-Pac in Bangkok, possibly the C-Pac office in Udon could organise it although they tend to act as seperate companys.
We are paying per block 10.7 baht including VAT, the Udon block is 4.5 to 5 baht per block, a lot cheaper however if you work out the cost per house using these quality blocks the increase in total outlay isnt that great, ie, 6,000 blocks for an average house = 6,000 X 5 thb = 30,000 thb compared to 6,000 X 10.7 = 64,200 thb, 34,000 thb extra when spending say 2 million to build isnt much for the gains you get in strength, if you are concealing electric and water in walls you will avoid cracks in walls where they chase and cut grooves to install, we run most of our conduits up the centre hole to avoid cracked render in the finished wall later. They are the standard 200mm High X 400mm Long but 90mm Wide, Udon blocks are all 65mm Wide which is way to thin for a single skin wall.
I would be interested to see if you can get them up there, with a lot of regret now I was slack and used the 65mm Udon block on my house up there, I beefed up the render to 30mm thick each side to try and add some strength but its not the same.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Thanks for the info. I can't see anything on their website about these blocks http://www.cpac.co.th. If I see anything around I'll let you know.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Would there be any point in using a double layer of Udon blocks makingthe cost about the same as CPac? Strength, insulation?
-
Galee
- udonmap.com
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: July 12, 2005, 5:16 pm
- Location: Was Eastbourne, East Sussex. Now Udon.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Why don't you read the previous posts before asking a question.
lee wrote:7cm Q Con Block - 422bt per sqm (r value 3.25)
20cm Q Con Block - 734bt per sqm (r value 8.7)
Red brick - 202bt per sqm (r value 0.4)
Grey blocks - 179bt per sqm (r value 1)
Double grey block wall with fiber glass in gap - 406bt per sqm (r value 9.5)
-
keithkarmann
- New Member
- Posts: 1
- Joined: April 25, 2013, 10:13 am
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
I am planning on building a house in Thung Saliam and I am still confused as to what would be best either concrete blocks or airated blocks.I do tend to go into things too much and at present I am doing a water test on both types of blocks.The airated blocks suck up water like a sponge and can gain nearly 100% of there normal weight but on the other hand concrete blocks when left soaking overnight in a bucket of water gain very little weight.So it would seem that concrete blocks would better in the event of a flood if they were exposed to a lot of water and they would dry out a lot quicker when the water went down. My house would be on small stilts anyway so it would have to be a very big flood in order to reach the blocks so it should not be a worry. My house would be double block anyway and I have been informed the insulation properties of double blocking would be far superior to the expensive house I am now renting that was built with the cheapest,smallest red bricks,without have to use insulation. Yes it seems the right time for me to build with my present g/f but by building cheaper (with concrete blocks) and if things went wrong with my g/f I could easily walk away without having put too much expense into a house.On the other hand if my realtionship with my g/f lasted I would save a lot of money by not paying expensive rents anymore. Of course I would have to live in a sleepy backwater like Thung Saliam and be surrounded by the girlfriends relatives,but I would be carefull not to build a house too big so I can't accomodate her relatives as well,although some of her female relatives would be welcome.Also I would build an extra toilet for her relatives only and keep the onsuite out of bounds for them. So I would welcome views on my soakage tests, I have considered the problems with reagrds to drilling concrete blocks for cupbaords ets but I would have to accept this.But at less than one third the cost of airated blocks the concrete blocks would be favourite.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
"Double grey block wall with fiber glass in gap - 406bt per sqm (r value 9.5)"
I have asked a couple of Thai builders about this type of wall and neither knows anything about it. Is there a website, preferably in Thai, that has information on how to do this properly? Is this blow-in insulation, or the roll type? They tell me that if I run plumbing or electrics inside the wall it will be hard to fix if something goes wrong. I tell them all plumbing and electrics are inside the walls in the USA, but that is stick frame builiding. They say what if the rats get inside the wall.
I have asked a couple of Thai builders about this type of wall and neither knows anything about it. Is there a website, preferably in Thai, that has information on how to do this properly? Is this blow-in insulation, or the roll type? They tell me that if I run plumbing or electrics inside the wall it will be hard to fix if something goes wrong. I tell them all plumbing and electrics are inside the walls in the USA, but that is stick frame builiding. They say what if the rats get inside the wall.
concrete concrete block or “autoclaved aerated concrete”,
Use K-block that have little airbubbles inside giving good insulation. No need for double blocks. They are concrete based so do not absorb water. Or Eco block that are hollow but still strong. Still air is a good insulator.