Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

[WBU ALUM]

Kind of ironic that the most accountable and transparent POTUS in history is now going to criminally investigate who leaked the latest abuse of power scandal but yet his Administration wont tell the pubic who made up the talking points after the Benghazi terrorist attack. He wont answer where he was on the night of the attack. Hillary wont answer who refused additional security for the Libya facilities. His administration wont answer who made the stand down order. His attorney general who openly lied to congress refuses to cooperate with that same congress and answer their questions. People in his administration are avowing their right to hide behind the fifth amendment in the IRS scandal.

His first call will probably be to his home town Chicago thugs with a hefty bounty for the head of those leaking perps.......
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/ ... 0K20130608

It's also interesting to note that we wouldn't have had Americans in harms way at the consulate in Libya had Obama not side-stepped Congress, ignored the War Powers Act and didn't go to them to get a consensus for the use of troops in Libya and participated in the invasion of Libya even though they posed no imminent threat to the US -- at all.

All of it could have been avoided without Obama participating with the French in this invasion of Libya.

There was also participation by this administration in the overthrow of a sovereign leader in Egypt through the funding of the Muslim Brotherhood. Of course, everyone who sits on Obama's lap turns their head over the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood has links to terror.

So in effect, Obama has sided with links to terror organizations to assist in the overthrow of leaders in both Libya and Egypt. This begs two questions: 1. Why after all the threats to Syria over using chemical weapons, and then nothing? 2. Why with the people of Iran in the streets begging for help in overthrowing an oppressive regime, did he do nothing? He had the support of the people -- the majority -- and left them hanging out to dry.

Personally, I don't think the US should have been involved in any of those civil clashes. None. But I don't understand the inconsistency in the foreign policy. Why go into Libya and Egypt? Why threaten Syria and do nothing? Why ignore Iran?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Khun Jack, I see your point On Iraq, but not so much on the 'gulag' since it is still operating under President Obama despite his promise to see it gone.

[WBU ALUM]

Classic Hypocrisy is now oozing out every corner of Obama's mouth with all the lies to cover up other lies.

Aside from all the things that Obama criticized Bush for doing -- and then Obama expands them and may have gone beyond the scope of the Patriot Act (according to the AUTHOR of the law) -- we have Obama contradicting himself in order to try to give himself cover. And it's not going to end here. There are so many lies in ObamaCare that it will be like a tidal wave when people wake up.

First, Obama has been attacking Congress and the Courts and blaming them, and the constrictions that the Constitution puts on him, since his first term in office beginning in 2009. In his speech the other day to try to justify his data grab of all the phone records, credit card records and emails, he tells Americans that "if we can't trust Congress and the Courts to follow the Constitution, we have a problem." HUH???? Obama's been ripping all three of them since day one and now all of a sudden he wants us to trust everybody.

Then, in that same "justification" speech, we get a lesson in how Obama is doing all of this to protect us. Ever since Obama took office in 2009, he has been telling us that Islamic Radicals are not a threat to America, and he acts as though their declared war on us is just our over-reacting. We now have "overseas contingency operations" and "man-caused disasters" to replace "the War on Terror" and "terrorist acts." Those name-changes occurred in 2009, long before all the terrorist attacks that have continued under Obama's watch on US soil. Then he tells us all in this "justification" speech that he needs to do what he's doing with all of our phone records and emails and credit card transactions to keep us safe. FROM WHO? No one's after us, remember?

This is the same Obama who will NOT defend America's borders with existing law and whose attorney general, Eric Holder, takes border states to court for trying to keep illegal immigrants out of their states. That same Obama is doing all this to keep us safe?

It's all BS. This is about targeting people who reject his policies and speak out. It's about political enemies. Barack Obama is using Big Government to remove the American People from Power.

[LilRed]

JS:

Based on lies, and for reasons unknown, invaded a foreign sovereign state which offered no danger to the US - leading to the deaths of 100's of thousands:

Bush 1
Obama 0

Initially, I figured the war in Iraq was a good thing, because it served as a "Terrorist Magnet"... And, we did kill many, many of 'em... But, apparently, not enough, as dey still killin each other wid a vengeance... For me, the WMD's were not a terribly important issue.

HOWEVER, IN HINDSIGHT, it has proved to be a very bad decision, as it opened the Pandora's box: Lybia, IRAN, Syria... And, has spilled over into Turkey, a long time critical ally... Oh sheist!

And, yesterday, I discovered a book, which claims that significant WMD's of several types, were found hidden throughout Iraq in many places... More on this later after I read da book...


WBU:

"Neocon" = Cheney, Rummy, etc... It was widely used in the media...


ATB

[jackspratt]

Khun Jack, I see your point On Iraq, but not so much on the 'gulag' since it is still operating under President Obama despite his promise to see it gone.

Unfortunately, the gulag can't be closed without the money to transfer, incarcerate and put on trial those prisoners who are actually dangerous.

That money needs to come from Congress, in which both sides of America's (broken) politics have refused.

[WBU ALUM]

"Neocon" = Cheney, Rummy, etc... It was widely used in the media...

Plus 1 on the WMDs. They found many in Iraq. I would be willing to bet that we'll find many of Saddam's in Syria, too.

The bad thing about bringing democracy to the Middle East Islamic countries is that you cannot give uncivilized and intolerant people a vote. You only need to see what has happened since. The vote is not used to give liberty and justice to all. It is used to hound and torment enemies and outlaw their existence -- socially, economically, spiritually. The democracy subjugates the populations with minority views.

I am reminded of the cartoon with two wolves and lamb deciding on dinner.



Other than Cheney and Rummy (I guess that's Rumsfeld) being old white guys attacked to the Bush Administration, I still don't know what characteristics someone must possess to be a neocon. There were Black Americans, Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans who were both men and women in the Bush Administration, too. I guess that leaves them out? Media may have used the term, but what does it mean to you? I'm not discussing this with the media.

Same with your views of the TEA Party. You never provided your characteristics of them either. If you don't want to answer those questions, that's cool; but I like to know what I'm discussing when people throw terms out there without detail.

[FrazeeDK]

excerpt from Wikipedia entry for neoconservative and a book written in 2004 by two conservatives:

Today's neo-conservatives unite around three common themes:
1.A belief deriving from religious conviction that the human condition is defined as a choice between good and evil and that the true measure of political character is to be found in the willingness by the former (themselves) to confront the latter.
2.An assertion that the fundamental determinant of the relationship between states rests on military power and the willingness to use it.
3.A primary focus on the Middle East and global Islam as the principal theater for American overseas interests.
In putting these themes into practice, neo-conservatives: 1.Analyze international issues in black-and-white, absolute moral categories. They are fortified by a conviction that they alone hold the moral high ground and argue that disagreement is tantamount to defeatism.
2.Focus on the "unipolar" power of the United States, seeing the use of military force as the first, not the last, option of foreign policy. They repudiate the "lessons of Vietnam," which they interpret as undermining American will toward the use of force, and embrace the "lessons of Munich," interpreted as establishing the virtues of preemptive military action.
3.Disdain conventional diplomatic agencies such as the State Department and conventional country-specific, realist, and pragmatic, analysis. They are hostile toward nonmilitary multilateral institutions and instinctively antagonistic toward international treaties and agreements. "Global unilateralism" is their watchword. They are fortified by international criticism, believing that it confirms American virtue.
Look to the Reagan administration as the exemplar of all these virtues and seek to establish their version of Reagan's legacy as the Republican and national orthodoxy.

[WBU ALUM]

excerpt from Wikipedia entry for neoconservative and a book written in 2004 by two conservatives:

Today's neo-conservatives unite around three common themes:
1.A belief deriving from religious conviction that the human condition is defined as a choice between good and evil and that the true measure of political character is to be found in the willingness by the former (themselves) to confront the latter.
2.An assertion that the fundamental determinant of the relationship between states rests on military power and the willingness to use it.
3.A primary focus on the Middle East and global Islam as the principal theater for American overseas interests.
In putting these themes into practice, neo-conservatives: 1.Analyze international issues in black-and-white, absolute moral categories. They are fortified by a conviction that they alone hold the moral high ground and argue that disagreement is tantamount to defeatism.
2.Focus on the "unipolar" power of the United States, seeing the use of military force as the first, not the last, option of foreign policy. They repudiate the "lessons of Vietnam," which they interpret as undermining American will toward the use of force, and embrace the "lessons of Munich," interpreted as establishing the virtues of preemptive military action.
3.Disdain conventional diplomatic agencies such as the State Department and conventional country-specific, realist, and pragmatic, analysis. They are hostile toward nonmilitary multilateral institutions and instinctively antagonistic toward international treaties and agreements. "Global unilateralism" is their watchword. They are fortified by international criticism, believing that it confirms American virtue.
Look to the Reagan administration as the exemplar of all these virtues and seek to establish their version of Reagan's legacy as the Republican and national orthodoxy.

Appreciate that, Frazee. I'm familiar with what shows up on the Internet. I was interested in Red's take. He used it. I wanted his perceptions.

[LilRed]

WBU:


Wikipedia does a fine job of describing the neocons...


And, here's the TEA Party: [quoteThe Tea Party movement is an American political movement that advocates strict adherence to the United States Constitution,[1] reducing U.S. government spending and taxes,[2][3] and reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit.[2] The movement has been called partly conservative,[4][5] partly libertarian,[6][7] and partly populist.[8][9][10] The movement has sponsored protests and supported political candidates since 2009.[11][12][13]

The name of the movement is derived from the Boston Tea Party of 1773, an iconic event in American history.[14][15][16][17] Anti-tax protesters in the United States have often referred to the original Boston Tea Party for inspiration.[18][19][20] References to the Boston Tea Party were part of Tax Day protests held throughout the 1990s and earlier.[21][22][23][24] By 2001, a custom had developed among some conservative activists of mailing tea bags to legislators and other officials as a symbolic act.[25]

][/quote], and,

Fox News commentator Juan Williams argues that the Tea Party movement emerged from the "ashes" of Ron Paul's 2008 presidential primary campaign.[56] Others have argued that the Koch brothers were essential in fostering the movement.[57][58] In 2013, a study published in the journal Tobacco Control concluded that organizations within the movement were connected with non-profit organizations that the tobacco industry and other corporate interests worked with and provided funding for,[59][60] including groups Citizens for a Sound Economy (founded by the Koch brothers).[61][62] Al Gore cited the study and said that the connections between "market fundamentalists", the tobacco industry and the Tea Party could be traced to a 1971 memo from tobacco lawyer Lewis F. Powell, Jr. who advocated more political power for corporations. Gore said that the Tea Party is an extension of this political strategy "to promote corporate profit at the expense of the public good."[63]

In my experience, in my area of da US, the folks involved were generally white, middle and lower income, gun lovin, extroverts, many of whom were proud of their racist sentiments...

I dunna have a clue where u are from, or, whether you meet Wiki's or my characterizations. I do enjoy readin your thoughts... 'ceptin when you get overly aggressive...


ATB

[WBU ALUM]

WBU:


Wikipedia does a fine job of describing the neocons...


And, here's the TEA Party: [quoteThe Tea Party movement is an American political movement that advocates strict adherence to the United States Constitution,[1] reducing U.S. government spending and taxes,[2][3] and reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit.[2] The movement has been called partly conservative,[4][5] partly libertarian,[6][7] and partly populist.[8][9][10] The movement has sponsored protests and supported political candidates since 2009.[11][12][13]

The name of the movement is derived from the Boston Tea Party of 1773, an iconic event in American history.[14][15][16][17] Anti-tax protesters in the United States have often referred to the original Boston Tea Party for inspiration.[18][19][20] References to the Boston Tea Party were part of Tax Day protests held throughout the 1990s and earlier.[21][22][23][24] By 2001, a custom had developed among some conservative activists of mailing tea bags to legislators and other officials as a symbolic act.[25]

]

, and,

Fox News commentator Juan Williams argues that the Tea Party movement emerged from the "ashes" of Ron Paul's 2008 presidential primary campaign.[56] Others have argued that the Koch brothers were essential in fostering the movement.[57][58] In 2013, a study published in the journal Tobacco Control concluded that organizations within the movement were connected with non-profit organizations that the tobacco industry and other corporate interests worked with and provided funding for,[59][60] including groups Citizens for a Sound Economy (founded by the Koch brothers).[61][62] Al Gore cited the study and said that the connections between "market fundamentalists", the tobacco industry and the Tea Party could be traced to a 1971 memo from tobacco lawyer Lewis F. Powell, Jr. who advocated more political power for corporations. Gore said that the Tea Party is an extension of this political strategy "to promote corporate profit at the expense of the public good."[63]

In my experience, in my area of da US, the folks involved were generally white, middle and lower income, gun lovin, extroverts, many of whom were proud of their racist sentiments...

I dunna have a clue where u are from, or, whether you meet Wiki's or my characterizations. I do enjoy readin your thoughts... 'ceptin when you get overly aggressive...


ATB[/quote]
So you think the TEA Party is racist and advocates racism, or are you saying that some of your neighbors were racist and happened to agree with the TEA Party's platform? Or are you saying that the TEA Party indoctrinated your neighbors into being racist?

The reason I ask all those questions is because there is nothing in TEA Party literature or rallies or in their membership drives that advocate racism. Race doesn't even enter the picture in their platform.

So which is it? Is the TEA Party racist, or do just some of your neighbors who agree with their principles happen to be racist?

Besides Wikipedia, you chose to go to Juan Williams and Al Gore to describe the TEA Party and their origins? My God, man. But again, I asked YOU who you think they are. Mai phen lai, Mr. Red. We don't appear to have much that we can discuss. I'll stick to substantive issues and filter out the rest.

[gudtymchuk]

Regardless how hard a Liberal tries to camouflage their true ideology eventually they will stumble, not slip, on their tongue.

[WBU ALUM]

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... view-video

Edward Snowden has been identified as the one who leaked information about the NSA's data surveillance programs. He says that he had the authority to wiretap anyone. Anyone. Including the current president.

He said the surveillance programs were narrowly tailored at first, but that now the agency "specifically targets the communications of everyone" and stores them. He said he had the authority to wiretap nearly everyone in the United States. He said that if he had a personal email of anyone -- you, your accountant, to a federal judge, to leaders in the US government. Snowden also said that his experience in the CIA and with NSA tells him that such invasions of privacy will likely get worse.

I located this video of William Binney, another whistleblower whose NSA career culminated as Technical Leader for intelligence in 2001. Critics of Binney say that he is too far removed after 12 years to know what is going on today, but from my own experience in law enforcement and the experience of friends who served in the military, once leaving the service, we maintained contacts with colleagues that continued for a decade or more. It is relatively easy to pick up the phone and ask "What's going on over there?" ... and get an answer.



Binney is trying to get this issue into the courts, but Obama's DoJ and Eric Holder are fighting it every step of the way.

[jackspratt]

Regardless how hard a Liberal tries to camouflage their true ideology eventually they will stumble, not slip, on their tongue.

Taking profundity to a whole new level.

[jackspratt]

I located this video of William Binney, another whistleblower whose NSA career culminated as Technical Leader for intelligence in 2001. Critics of Binney say that he is too far removed after 12 years to know what is going on today, but from my own experience in law enforcement and the experience of friends who served in the military, once leaving the service, we maintained contacts with colleagues that continued for a decade or more. It is relatively easy to pick up the phone and ask "What's going on over there?" ... and get an answer.

Well done Rico.

You "located" a video that I posted on this thread 2 days ago, and you had linked an excerpt to yourself on the same day.

As far as your "law enforcement experience" is concerned, it would seem that Mr Binney does not share your thoughts - as he expresses (in relation to the NSA) at about 11 minutes into the video.

[WBU ALUM]

Snooping Concerns Emerge Over Congressional Blackberries Serviced By Verizon
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... By-Verizon

Now that Congress has realized that THEY are in Obama's gun-sights, even Democrats are becoming concerned with this power grab.

Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), chairwoman of the Appropriations Committee, said Kirk raised “a very important point," and said a classified hearing would be in order to discuss the issue further.

"This act by the Obama Administration is clearly unconstitutional. The federal government has no probable cause to believe that all users of Verizon phones are presumed the aiders and abettors to international criminals," said the Senate staffer. He continued, "The 4th Amendment requires probable cause and it does not exist, unless if we are now to presume that all Americans are potential terrorists."

[papaguido]

I located this video of William Binney, another whistleblower whose NSA career culminated as Technical Leader for intelligence in 2001. Critics of Binney say that he is too far removed after 12 years to know what is going on today, but from my own experience in law enforcement and the experience of friends who served in the military, once leaving the service, we maintained contacts with colleagues that continued for a decade or more. It is relatively easy to pick up the phone and ask "What's going on over there?" ... and get an answer.

Well done Rico.

You "located" a video that I posted on this thread 2 days ago, and you had linked an excerpt to yourself on the same day.

As far as your "law enforcement experience" is concerned, it would seem that Mr Binney does not share your thoughts - as he expresses (in relation to the NSA) at about 11 minutes into the video.

Just curious, who is Rico??

[WBU ALUM]

I located this video of William Binney, another whistleblower whose NSA career culminated as Technical Leader for intelligence in 2001. Critics of Binney say that he is too far removed after 12 years to know what is going on today, but from my own experience in law enforcement and the experience of friends who served in the military, once leaving the service, we maintained contacts with colleagues that continued for a decade or more. It is relatively easy to pick up the phone and ask "What's going on over there?" ... and get an answer.

You "located" a video that I posted on this thread 2 days ago, and you had linked an excerpt to yourself on the same day.

I don't even see Mr. Jack's posts anymore, so I have no idea -- or interest -- in what he posts. If someone quotes him, as you did, I get a view. Still no interest though.

[jackspratt]

Just curious, who is Rico??

Ricohoc.

Look him up - I am sure it will look very familiar.

[jackspratt]

I don't even see Mr. Jack's posts anymore, so I have no idea -- or interest -- in what he posts. If someone quotes him, as you did, I get a view. Still no interest though.

A technique used on many forums by those who who realise their posts don't stand up to the glare of considered responses.

And of course they are the poorer for it.

[papaguido]

Just curious, who is Rico??

Ricohoc.

Look him up - I am sure it will look very familiar.

Looked it up, no such animal...so what's your point?

Meanwhile, it appears the committee's ranking Democrat is ready to sweep the IRS scandal under the rug...

“Based upon everything I’ve seen, the case is solved. If it were me, I’d wrap this case up and move on,” Mr. Cummings, Maryland Democrat, told CNN’s Candy Crowley on “State of the Union.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-irs-sca/