Capable lawyer needed for transfer of house

[Somchai499]

Hi,

We are at the beginning of the process of buying a house, and found one that we like.

While I have sold and bought property in other countries I, but have little idea how the transfer of ownership works here in Thailand. And yes, I am aware of the restrictions for land ownership for farangs so I like to register a usufruct as well.

Can anybody refer me to a competent lawyer who speaks some English so that he can help us through the process.

Many thanks for your help!

[MALC]

a very good lady.who speaks perfect english.boy she is good.her name is mrs dtom.mono place just behind aek hostpital.tel no 0857457917--0818719720.

[GARYZX6R]

I read Somchai that you are unable to get a usufruct in Udon now as land office wont issue anymore. Just something to think about .

[bumper]

Mr. Norprat Khonphankul

Office 042-247877
Mobile 081-872-0837

Speak perfect English and he can be trusted. I have used him for years.

If the land Office won't accept a usufruct, that is new might want to ask about it.

Another option is a 30 year lease, that is what I have.

[WhoUrDaddy]

Transferring land / house at land office is very easy and no need for a lawyer, as long as you can tell what you are buying from the chanote, or the land office will come out and make sure and verify, though there may be a queue. of course, they will also come out, no queue for extra charge. Usufrunct also USED TO BE easy to DIY..............but, Udon, and so far, Udon Thani is the only province in Thaiand, not allowing these placed on the chanote. TIT

AND that's even if you have a lawyer saying they should. Apparently we are not worthy anymore.

[merchant seaman]

Or you can talk to Preban at FBI as others on here have done even though they say you can do it yourself.

[DRILLER]

usufruct are until death or if the farang is young enough, 30 years.

therein lies the complication.

properties can sit empty for a very long time or until the farang dies, if the parties are no longer on amicable terms causing gov depts many issues.

[WhoUrDaddy]

to who ever......usufruct.......DIY or lawyer.............IT DOESN'T MATTER...........THEY ARE NOT ISSUING THEM....

The Land Department in Udon Thani and usufructs
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:22:38 PM »

The land department in Udon Thani is refusing to register usufruct to foreigners.
They also told us on the phone that they are refusing leases and superficies. That is a decision of the head officer of the land department.
That is scary for foreigners....

They only contract he agrees is rights of habitation. I never seen that anywhere else and that's the only place i know.
And we did register usufructs in the past in Udon Thani. YEsterday, someone called us said he had problems and wanted us to register it for him. We double checked, verified, and the land department does not want to do it.

Few years ago, the head officer of ALL land department gave some discretion to each head officer of the land department to refuse or accept agreements. The Civil Code or the law of Thailand should be the same everywhere...

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[merchant seaman]

Somchai is the house and property located in Udon Thani or some where else?

[bumper]

Tis Thailand and until you take it court and fight not much is going to change. Big thing going on in Pucket about foreign ownership. I will see if I can find it. The thing that puzzles me is where for they think you will take it. We ran into problems with out Farm a the Land office would not issue a Nor Sor Som Kor to my wife. Saying the land was farm land given by an individual. The same land had a Chanote issued before to an individual, in prior history. It got so bad that they were talking taking the land form the family. So all we have is a bill of sale. Doesn't seem to bother Thai's they buy land all through the area. So lots of things have changed with this Land Office. Everything in Thailand is subject to change. so in time may not be a issue.

[rickfarang]

What a coincidence! Just when the land department begins refusing to register usufructs and long term leases for foreigners, a whole slew of condominium projects pop up! How lucky! What are the odds?

[bumper]

[Somchai499]

Th property is located in Udon.

Friends told me that registering the usufruct is the Amper's job, not the Land Department's?

So where do I go from here?

[rickfarang]

Its within the purview of the Land Department. That's where we did it.

[WhoUrDaddy]

Friends told me that registering the usufruct is the Amper's job, not the Land Department's?

So where do I go from here?

the usufrunct is placed on the chanote for land, issued from the land office. so if wanting, I guess you don't go anywhere...sorry. the amphur office issues the house books, blue for owner/thais, yellow for foreign residing at.

[bumper]

Right now mine is resting with my Lawyer about he best I can do now. That doesn't prevent to owner from getting seconds on the property or selling it. But, I'm telling her that. Selling I'm not worried about that doesn't happen overnight and you can jam that up easily. Bank loans they want my signature, since they know who really pays for it.

I will say this buying anything is Thailand is a risk, I financed my place. so I can lose the down payment, my payment is 10K a month, about the same for renting a three bedroom two bath house. I got to live somewhere, so my exposure is limited.

Building a home on the farm that is a dream gone, not in the wife's name and at 66 doubt if anyone will finance a house even if it gets transferred. The land office really went south on a lot of things. I will not cash out a house here to much exposure.

Any large purchases I finance, sure I pay interest. But. I also limit my exposure. So I pay a I use. I don't have the use I don't pay. I have not been able to develop credit here anyway. So I don't have to worry about a credit rating I can walk away. Won't change a thing.

I think there is much more risk in cashing things out. Three divorces before I ever came here. so I know people change in time. Wedded until the Court rules, that is real life. Can't touch my retirement I maintain a single visa on the monthly 65K. Under Thai law you post that 800K half of it hers.

So there are ways to provide yourself with some protection. But as I was told when I came here never bring in anymore then you can afford to lose. So my odd way of doing things.

As long as I have that retirement I really can't be hurt.

[isaanlawyers]

I am the one who wrote the land department in Udon Thani was refusing usufruct and copied here.

It is a copy from here:
http://isaan.com/forum/index.php/topic, ... ml#msg5491

I met the director of the land department today (amphur mueang).
He is strict but won't refuse all foreigners anymore. But it won't be easy.
He has a discretionary power but we had a "long conversation" without any tea money involved and a client of us should register a usufruct in 30 days after the transfer that was today. We made contracts in between.

Let's see in 30 days.

Sebastian.

[bumper]

Thanks Sebastian.

The land office here, has went far to far. Three years ago, my wife bought land 1 &1/4 rai of land that had a Nor Sor Som kor on it issued 30 years ago. They refused to issued a Nor Sor Som Kor to her. There is notation from 30 years ago for farm use, give by his majesty for farm use.

In the mean time the father has died, the land was willed to the family members they can't even break it up to be put parcels in their names. But one such sale a guy in the military was issued a Chanote. That being said he bought another small portion and they wouldn't put that in his name.

I have done the research and there is no reason why that land can't be changed into smaller parcels.

Interestingly enough they told us we could build a house there and farm it if we wished. Just not put the land in her name.

There must have been at least a 100 homes built on the general area now and five on the land in question.

I don't want usufruct or lease just her land put in her name. If that happens then I may build a small home there. It is now an active farm. I have taken photos of all the improvements we have made on the land. We have a bill of sale that established when my wife bought the land.

Please keep us informed of your progress you may have another client, my wife.

There is no way anything is going to happen without a challenge being made we know that.

Thanks

Again

[isaanlawyers]

1) 3 years ago was not the same director.
2) There are many foreigners in Udon. Same as Pattaya, Hua Hin, Phuket, Samui. Corruption does exist in Thailand. Some officers abuse and especially when there is a large amounts of foreigners. They believe all foreigners have money and they also think foreigners don't know the law. How many times I heard that a foreigner can now own a car, or crazy stories. Remember that Thais do not make superficies, or usufruct BECAUSE they can fully own. Around 1970, the law was changed. A Thai lady married to a foreigner COULD NOT OWN LAND. The Supreme Court, I think, changed that in 1999 based on equally rights. Still, they do not want foreigners to use NOMINEES.

Foreigners DO USE NOMINESS A LOT. See all these companies with fake shareholders. I kind of understand them a little. But many people here do follow the law, do bring money in Thailand, we help the economy and should be treated fairly. I hate the immigration process here. In Canada, thousands of Thais are full citizens, have all rights but how many Canadians here can become Thais? Yes, it is not fair. It is their country. They can have the law they wish and we should follow their laws. But article 30 of THEIR constitution says EVERYONE (not every Thai) should be EQUAL (for some categories....sex, race, etc.). Thailand is 30 years behind western countries in terms of law.

3) About YOUR case, Nor Sor Sam are different than LOWER title deeds and HIGHER title deeds. You can easily register rights on Chanotte and Nor Sor Sam Kor. On Nor Sor Sam, you can but you need announcements. On lower title deed like Por Bor Tor 5 you can not. And Sor Por Kor is only transmissible by heirs. Many thais do buy these title deeds but that is illegal.

I work (actually I go!) in many land departments, amphur, DBD, labour department, family court, juvenile division, I can sometimes enter in some prisons as interpreter with a Thai lawyer, all places seems to have their rules. It is a jungle here and I do it since 2006. Don't ask me why, it is their culture. The more you learn about Thailand the less you understand. I must try to find the middle way, do the best.

Yesterday, I had recorded conversations with 2 officers and the head director. He knows. I wanted to protect my client.

If you learn more about Thai culture, they have words to explain bad and good corruption in Thailand. And a majority of Thais do accept good corruption.

I personally just want to apply THE LAW.
A foreigner can NOT use ANYONE to buy land.
But a foreigner can GIVE MONEY to ANY THAI, this Thai person can BUY ANYTHING she or he wants, and the THAI PERSON, knowing she or he is the owner, does have the right to register some agreements if they wish.

Again, I receive dozens of emails each year by foreigners saying: I WANT TO BUY LAND....
NO..... You can't. (unless you have a BOI approval, or go into the 40,000,000 baht investment, some rare exceptions).
There is so much misinformation on internet. Tons of real estate agents SELLING TO FOREIGNERS. You can own a condominium. You can own structures on land. But very often, the buildings are attached to the land. And there is a proverb you can't do indirectly what you can't do directly in law.

Anyway, Thai style, I do not wish the head officer in Udon to be angry against me or our law firm. So I do it Thai style. But I know where to push the button and how far to go. He said 2 or 3 times yesterday we could go to Court or he could refuse the transaction. He accepted the transaction. I understand what he meant (he is also a barrister, the new head officer which is highest rank for a lawyer in Thailand) and we dealt like adults and I hope for all people in Udon that things will improve.

NEVER get angry at the land department.
Smile, Thai style. Ask to see the law if they tell you X or Y because they often not apply the law.
They also can be right so you need to see if what they say is right or not.

Best,

S.

[bumper]

This is how I understand things, no getting angry will not get anywhere as with most Government entities here and in my home state of California.

I can't remember the number of years you have to occupy the land. I do not want my name on it in any way shape or form. It's my wife's. I know about the posting and will follow the law when I have I occupied the land ling enough. Can prove all improvements as required. We did things as the law specifies in our case the Mayor of Nong Bua,presented to him, no problem. Never got past a clerk at the Land Office. He declined, that being said had I been in the same situation as he I would have said the same thing.

I know you have to supple an aerial photograph of the area. That one throws me no idea how to do that.

I'm happy to hear you left him with a good taste in his mouth, never know when you may have to approach someone again.

At this juncture they won't even divide the land for members of the family. They are afraid they will lose the land if they do anything further.

So my plan at the moment is quietly do what I'm doing, make sure I complied with everything and maybe at that point you can help us. Right now not a good idea. I'm patient the wife makes money from the farming activities, so it's not all bad. We have three years in now, so we are getting closer.

I too understand they don't want major corporations coming in and buying huge amounts of land for farming or whatever.

So we will keep you in mind, when we have met all the requirements.

I kind of a get a chuckle out of it. The wife bought dirt she is not taking it anywhere

For me doesn't really matter I have a lease on our current home. This was done for her future.

I really appreciate your input