green garuda, what is it worth?

[d p meijer]

family, 4 sisters have adjoining pieces of land with green garuda as deed.
they wanted to apply for red garuda and have delivered their landpapers to the landoffice.
now they get the message that on the official map in the landoffice there is no sign of land
belonging to them or anybody else but the government.

i thought that green garuda proofs that you are full owner of the land .
the land office told them they cannot get red garuda and if they want their papers, showing green garuda back,
they have to pay 3000,-- baht.
if not "pay", papers might be sent to Bangkok and land will be taken away from them.
what to do, what can one do.

[maaka]

I hope other members will come in here and correct me, and give the OP some guidance
difference between RED and GREEN Garuda, is one is a RIGHT to use the land, the other is OWNERSHIP...
I think the sisters only have a RIGHT, not actual ownership..
If that is the case, then the old saying ' possession is 90% of the law " may apply..
mean pay the 3000 first so have papers
but more importantly, get the sisters, or one of the sisters to live on the land, before someone else does.
show you are using the land
then work your way slowly up the ladder from the Right of use/possession, to full ownership..


this only my opinion from what little you have said...it is not legal advice ok
go to lawyer and find out proper way to go..

many Thai think the land is theirs because Papa worked it all his life until he die, but they dont realise it is maybe the Kings land and Papa was only like leasee, or less than leasee, but living on the land and showing you use will help in gaining ownership later I hope..

[papafarang]

makka is right on the button, right of use.the land does not realy belong to them. they are only using the land.i'm not sure but it's something like they have to farm 10% of the land to keep right of use and have to pay yearly tax, but the tax is stupidly low. and they can only pass it on to family.i've met a few farang got caught out buying this type of land.best get legal advice or just pay the 3000 baht to get real ownership as the goverment have the right to take it back if your not working the land. thai's get round this by planting a bit of rubber or eucalyptus thus covering thier ass

[eagle]

1. Chanot (red Garuda emblem on the title deed). Also know as Nor Sor Si, ie Nor Sor 4, and Chanot ti din. This is the only true certificate of land ownership and is mapped with GPS coordinates.

2. Nor Sor Sam (3) Gor (green Garuda emblem). Chanot issuance will take place if requested, at the discretion of the land officer.

3. Nor Sor Sam (3) (black Garuda emblem). Chanot issuance can take place if requested, at the discretion of the land officer, but prior to sale there is a 30-day notice period during which neighbours must be sent a notice of intent and allowing them the opportunity to object.

There is one variation of Chanot to be aware of, namely Chanot Lung Daeng, which prohibits the sale of the land for 10 years after it was initially granted Chanot.

http://www.chiangraiestate.com/buying/

Just too lazy to write my own answer (above). Green Garuda is much better than Por Bor Tor. Difference to full chanote are borders with neighbours. Because not GPS based, some close neighbours can claim part of land to be theirs. Still righs to sell, transfer or mortgage as chanote land.

That 3000 thb sounds like yearly tax for land and not collected from several years. I had to do same with my wife, because we had not paid out tax in 6 years. Chanote land. If builded or planted, tax would reduce 75%*. By the way, we did buy Chanot Lung Daeng land, but today it is same as any chanote land. It is easy to wipe ownership out from papers, if someone does not pay taxes in several years.

My advice is to pay those taxes as soon as possible -if really taxes not paid and nothing else.

*If no house or plantation, tax will be double. If planted, tax will be 50%. So 50% instead of 200%, if planted.

[maaka]

Good one Fella's..that should help Mr. Meijer.
yes important to pay the 3000 tax that sisters forget to pay, so still have Right to Use..
Then like Papafarang says, plants some rubber, or rice, or put some buffalo on land to show you use..
According to other advice here by Eagle, Land Office may, or maybe not issue full ownership papers one day..
Alot of the Kings lands, is slowly being suryeyed and put into Charnote land..
but if sisters want to keep land , is best to pay tax today, and use the land, and worry about ownership later when you and the sisters understand the difference between RIGHT and OWNERSHIP, and how to change from one to other..

[polycian]

Dear, K. d p meijer

Should be back to talk with land's officer again. How can they change this NOR SOR 3 KOR become to Chanote as you need. Some occation may be pay more than your thinking. Those 4 sisters know those process better than you ,OK!.
But should remember , this is thailand, Some of negotiate doesn't open to the public. INfact its take very long time
to change those emblem. Depented on goverment policy &inspector.