Crypto-currencies: The future is now

[KHONDAHM]

Western Union is a dinosaur....as are travelers' checks.....but they live on...

I opine that generational preference has a lot to do with that. As the current 20-something's become the 40-something's, those payment options will go the way of the VHS tapes and the phonograph. Case in point: what are the ages of those still using traveler's checks? I doubt most 20-something's know how to get them - nevermind how to use them. The generation after them will likely think the same about ATM cards...

During my lifetime, I will likely never touch the crypto-currency I have obtained, but I am hopeful my kids will profit from my foresight someday.

[parrot]

During my lifetime, I will likely never touch the crypto-currency I have obtained, but I am hopeful my kids will profit from my foresight someday.

I think, in the end, this is where I can't get my hands around the idea. I view currencies as something I use to buy things, something I can calculate my net-worth, something I can exchange for services....but not something I use as for profit making (or loss). If I plan on buying a new car advertised for $40,000....and if the dealer/maker says I'll take US currency or bitcoins, what happens if the $40,000 worth of bitcoins in my possession that I plan to offer next week suddenly are now only worth $32,000?
Is anyone using the ATMs/machines that supposedly accept bitcoin purchases? Are people who obtained bitcoins when the value was $1000 using them now that the value is quite a bit less.........or are people who obtained bitcoins when the value was less than today using them because the value is greater today?
My questions are genuine....I'm really trying to understand the concept of cryptocurrencies (such as bitcoin) as a currency, not a gamble. If anyone has a link that explains in layman's terms how this works, please post it.

[GT93]

I understand that they're fairly easy to steal by sophisticated hackers. Holders of bitcoins are dependent on others who they have never met from preventing this happening. It has happened before. I would expect KD's crytpo-currency to have been nicked inside the next 10 years. Wait until the North Koreans get into this game. There are other people to worry about as well such as bored unemployed say European youth.

[merchant seaman]

Didn't take long for the IRS to get involved. Every purchase made with bitcoins must be reported and taxed accordingly. What a headache that would cause.

[KHONDAHM]

I understand that they're fairly easy to steal by sophisticated hackers. Holders of bitcoins are dependent on others who they have never met from preventing this happening. It has happened before. I would expect KD's crytpo-currency to have been nicked inside the next 10 years. Wait until the North Koreans get into this game. There are other people to worry about as well such as bored unemployed say European youth.

You may not be fully informed. Those getting hacked either

1. Entrust their coins to some company mistakenly thinking that nascent company is hack-proof
2. Store their coin wallet on a machine used to connect to the internet
3. Do not encrypt their wallet or use hack-able passwords

KD's coin wallets are stored on encrypted USB drives and physical paper. A very good thief may steal an encrypted drive, but good luck hacking it. The password is a phrase and includes punctuation, numbers, and mixed case letters. The thief may steal the paper, but the wallet ID on any one sheet is not whole and they would have to know how to make it whole. Good luck with that.

If you care to convert your expectation to a firm bet, I will cover your bet.

[GT93]

No thank you. I don't follow this closely enough. I was under the impression that all Bit Coins are dependent on a third party's security and that hackers or whatever the correct word is can circumvent your personal security by taking on the third party.

[marklv]

I wonder if there is sufficient interest in a bitcoin and/or altcoin meetup in the Udon area, to organize one. There are several per week in Bangkok, and I go to some of those when I can. I personally would be willing to travel from Udon as far as far south as Khon Kaen or as far north as Nong Khai for a meetup. Last time I checked Meetup.com has nothing in this area.

[marklv]

There is a meetup with two members. (Check www.meetup.com) Until more people join, I'll have to be content with attending meetups when I'm in Bangkok.

[leterry60614]

The U.S. is seeking more than $10 billion penalty from bank BNP. Can you think of a bigger incentive for foreign banks to use bitcoins?

[parrot]

The U.S. is seeking more than $10 billion penalty from bank BNP. Can you think of a bigger incentive for foreign banks to use bitcoins?

Actually, I can see why governments, especially the US, would be concerned about banks using bitcoins. A lack of a paper trail might appeal to some....to many....but in the big scheme of things, I can't see governments giving up their ability to track the flow of money. If anything, the US is more concerned than ever about where its citizens park their money.......http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/05/19/cre ... crackdown/

[marklv]

Actually, I can see why governments, especially the US, would be concerned about banks using bitcoins. A lack of a paper trail might appeal to some....to many....but in the big scheme of things, I can't see governments giving up their ability to track the flow of money. If anything, the US is more concerned than ever about where its citizens park their money.

Bitcoins don't need or use banks; they buypass them. Furthermore, if a bank were to use bitcoins each transaction would be recorded on the blockchain, and thus they would leave a paper trail, at least an electronic one. Banks have a fiduciary responsibility and therefore are subject to audits, so all these transactions would be traceable. There may exist other reasons that banks wouldn't be allowed to use bitcoins, but lack of a paper trail isn't one of them. With regard to citizens using bitcoins, that can't be stopped without shutting down the internet everywhere in the world. U.S. regulators will have to adapt to that fact.

[Shado]

"The Bitcoin digital currency system is in danger of losing its credibility as an independent payment system because of the growing power of a group that runs some of the computers behind it.

In recent weeks, a British-based "mining pool" called GHash has amassed nearly half of the Bitcoin computing power and has briefly gone over 50 percent. Miners operate the computers that keep track of bitcoins and create additional coins."

http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-faces-big ... xvA2dxMQ--

[KHONDAHM]

MICROSOFT NOW ACCEPTING BITCOIN!

To say this is a potentially huge development would be an even greater understatement.

http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-adds- ... e-content/

[leterry60614]

That's a key endorsement. Everyday that passes by is proving Bitcoin's resiliency... It's more stable than the Russian ruble for sure.

[GT93]

You'd bloody hope so 60614. The Russian ruble is a dog. A very low benchmark. Gates was also very cautious in KD's link.

[rick]

How much has Bitcoin fluctuated in the last year? Now around $400 (a fall of 60% since last december). I also saw that the differential between buy and sell price is about 10% on the exchange i looked at.

[leterry60614]

That's the increase in exchange rates. But how much value is lost if your savings are deposited in a Russian bank? Bitcoins disconnect your savings from the foreign and economic policies of your nation. And the advantage of Bitcoins over gold is that you can buy a Microsoft game station with them. Merry Christmas to all!

[noosard]

Banking Currency Technology Your Money

The price of bitcoin has plummeted 32 percent in two days, as the virtual currency's volatility threatens to undermine its ability to gain mainstream use.

Bitcoin's price declined 15 percent yesterday and 20 percent today to $181.45, its lowest level since October 2013, according to CoinDesk's Bitcoin Price Index, an average of bitcoin prices across leading global exchanges. Bitcoin's 58 percent plunge last year already made it one of the biggest money-losing investments of 2014, worse than oil or the ruble.

"The price will continue to be volatile and driven by speculators in the short term," said Gil Luria, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "Nothing about the technology and its promise have changed, but in the short term that does not drive the price."

Bitcoin naysayers have been worried that governments around the world will regulate or prohibit the currency to crack down on criminals, and Russia is now moving closer to doing just that.

A prolonged price drop could also, at least temporarily, put the future of the currency in question because the equipment and power needed to mine new bitcoins are so expensive. Mining new bitcoins is key to the underlying technology.

On the flip side, many proponents of bitcoin appreciate its relative anonymity and transaction verification via a public ledger. And despite the recent drop, some of the biggest backers of bitcoin say they aren't fleeing.

"I'm not going to comment on the recent price movement, other than saying I'm not concerned," Barry Silbert, chief executive officer of SecondMarket Holdings Inc., said in an e-mailed response to questions. Silbert's company was part of a bidding group that won 48,000 bitcoins at a U.S. government auction in December.

A bitcoin could be worth $100 or $1 million, and its value will fluctuate as new uses for the currency's underlying technology emerge, Luria said. Venture capitalists, including Tim Draper, have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into startups that are building new software on top of bitcoin technology. And companies from Microsoft Corp. to a Lamborghini dealership have said they accept bitcoin as payment.

With the value of bitcoin once topping $1,100 in 2013, the last year -- and this week, in particular -- has been a dramatic reversal of fortunes. But for those who don't see bitcoin going away, the recent decline has be a chance to snatch up more bitcoins in hopes prices will bounce back.

With so many buyers and sellers, transaction volume today has been among the highest ever, according to Blockchain.info.

[leterry60614]

Good read. I'll retain the last lines about the increase in liquidity and the growing number of merchants accepting payment in Bitcoins. And there is something to be looking forward to.

Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF Files to Sell 1 Million Shares (Nasdaq: COIN)

winklevoss-001By DAVID ZEILER, Associate Editor, Money Morning - January 2, 2015
Taking one step closer to going live, the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF filed an amendment Dec. 30 to its Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) prospectus to list 1 million shares at an offer price of $20.09 per share.

If approved, the aggregate value of the shares will be $20.09 million.

Officially known as the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, this exchange-traded fund is intended to be an easy way to invest in Bitcoin.

[KHONDAHM]

"A prolonged price drop could also, at least temporarily, put the future of the currency in question because the equipment and power needed to mine new bitcoins are so expensive. Mining new bitcoins is key to the underlying technology."

Meh. If the ASICs (the expensive mining computers) are turned off, the difficulty will drop to a level where less expensive mining computers would be turned back on. The genius of the algorithm is that it self-adjusts to the computing power of the network. No matter how much or how little computing power is committed to mining, the rate at which the blocks are found (those are the rewards of BitCoin mined) will always be relatively constant.

So, the quoted concern means nothing. If the expensive machines are turned off, cheaper ones would be turned back on.