Problem with rental payments

Post by **sabaiking** » August 5, 2014, 5:23 pm

Hello,

I have a problem with the tenant in my house.

First of all my situation. Someone is renting my for 5 months.
When we made the rental agreement I was already little uncertain because it was not clearly how many people will live in the house and the person who signed the contract would only lives sometimes in the house. Only the tenants sister with her family will live full-time.
But I was happy to have a tenant and the family seemed to be nice.
Also my wife agreed that they could pay monthly rental at the end of each month (because the tenant would receive his salary at the end of every month) even if the contract says at the 26th of each month.

Then second monthly payment was already due for a day. I think it was the 2nd of the month and my wife called her about the rental payment. She said she can only pay at the 5th because she had some problems.
Then the third payment was thew same situation. My wife called them I think on the 2nd or 3rd but this time the tenant said that she will always pay on the 5th of every month.She said sorry and that it is how it is. We were not happy but what else could we do then agree.
The the fourth payment was again due. My wife tried to called at the 5th of the month but the tenants mobile phone number was offline. My wife called another neighbor in the house project and asked if they are in contact with the tenant in our house and have a phone number of them. Fortunately the neighbor had a phone number of the sister of the tenant (who is actually living in the house, as far as I understand) and the number was working. She said sorry and that she forgot us she will pay in the next day. She paid on the 6th.
This month (it happened today the 5th) my wife called again and asked for the money. The tenant said she forgot it and will pay tomorrow.
I was angry at my wife that she let herself be dealed so easy. And then I called the tenant myself. I was telling her that what she is doing unfair and she should know that normally according to the contract she have to pay on the 26th of every month and right now she is paying always 10 days later. She started immediately to be loud and told me that she discussed everything with my wife already and questioned me why I called her. I told her that my wife has to call her every month and ask for the money and that this is not okay. She again told me that she explained everything to my wife and why I don't understand it. She then said that she really like the house but she will take out all stuff now and leave immediately. I told her that I paid much money for that house and why she doesn't at least inform us if she will pay late. Give us a call. Then she told me that she is a busy woman and have no time to always think about it. She is abroad right now. I told her that I don't care if she is busy she has to pay for the house or inform us at least. If she is to busy she can send at least an e-mail. Take no longer then 30 seconds. After she only shouted in the phone that she explained my wife everything already and that the she will move out, then she closed the call... Then 20 minutes later she called my wife and told her that she will leave the house probably tomorrow because I was swearing at her. This was absolutly nonesense. Of course I asked her things which were uncomfortable because I wanted an answer if we have to call now every month and ask for the money. But she started to raise her voice. She was more like, why I am calling her if she explained everything to my wife already.

I feel bad now. Was it against any thai behaviours what I did? She told my wife that I was swearing at her. But that is not true I havn't used any taunts. She started immidiatly to be very loud and of course I raised my voice also....

I don't know if they will really leave now? Or leave and spread ---- all over the place?! Or do I have to excuse? As far as I know her sister lives with her two small children and husband in that place. Actually I don't want them to leave but if they pay later the can at least give us a call. finish

By the way this is not a cheap charly hut. House rental is 20k THB

Is this normally in Thailand with thai tenants?!

Post by **redwolf** » August 5, 2014, 5:50 pm

Just have your wife deal with them.

Post by **sabaiking** » August 5, 2014, 6:04 pm

Tenant called my wife again. She will pay tomorrow and already passed rental agreement to her lawyer. Her lawyer will call use soon she said...

That is so childish now :-&

Post by **Mosquito** » August 5, 2014, 6:33 pm

at least they were payng the rent....................would of been happy................most wouldn't!!!

just hope they don't trash the place now before they leave!!

Post by **semperfiguy** » August 5, 2014, 7:46 pm

Sorry Sabaiking, but you should have let your wife deal with them and jumped on your wife for not being more strict in her own Thai way. Now you have hit the "face" nerve and to your tenant you are nothing more than farang slime to begin with. Her unfounded sense of importance has kicked in because farang slimeballs can't talk down to Thais like that. You're living in the land of vigilante justice, so be prepared to come out on the losing end on this deal. "Face" is much more important to her than your rental contract and the rule of law. Threatening you with a lawyer is nothing more than a diversionary scare tactic. Keep us posted and let us know how is all turns out!

Post by **merchant seaman** » August 5, 2014, 7:56 pm

Making a Thai lose face, no matter how right you are, can be dangerous to your health.

Post by **Jello** » August 5, 2014, 8:28 pm

Putting aside the "Thai-Face" factor, I would consider it odd if I called my landlord and worked out a arrangement and was then later called by my landlords spouse complaining about it. In some instances that could be considered harassment.

If your not already, you should talk to a lawyer and get schooled on what the landlord/tenant laws are here.
A rental contract should include a late fee if rent paid after the due date and a intent to evict after so many days.
(At least that's the way it works in the US).
Get your wife on the same page and stick to the contract. If they can pay on the due date, then you don't want them in your house. No exceptions.

Post by **sabaiking** » August 5, 2014, 11:39 pm

Jello wrote:Putting aside the "Thai-Face" factor, I would consider it odd if I called my landlord and worked out a arrangement and was then later called by my landlords spouse complaining about it. In some instances that could be considered harassment.

I called her because she paid too late again. Verbal agreement was at the first of every month. Then second payment came at the 5th of the next month (after calling and asking). Third payment came at the 5th again (after calling at the 3rd). This time she also said that she will always pay on the 5th because she can't earlier. What else can my wife say as "okay" Then next month we waited for the 5th. And still nothing so wife called at the 5th then payment on the 6th (tenant said that she forgot it). Now this time we waited again for 5th afternoon. Wife called again and tenant says again "sorry forgot it, will pay tomorrow". And this is the time when I wanted to speak with her myself because she got no respect of my wife. (Just a side info: When we met first time at the house for rental agreement, she was talking with my wife how she can help thai woman who divorce farang how to get out as much as possible and her husband is a policemen and can manage things, etc... actually I didn't like that woman from the beginning. Talked about foreigner like idiots) But she was getting loud from the moment when I was telling her that she is always paying later and we always have to call first... then she started immediately about moving out right now. I didn't agree or said something about that they have to move out, she hang up the phone when I was telling her again why she not just give us a call.

The income of that house is planed right now. If she doesn't pay I have to transfer money with high fee's to Thailand.
I am not a bad guy, if there is a problem you can talk with me. But she was from the beginning of the call like "why I call and ask, told my wife already everything". No excuse for late payment.

Post by **sabaiking** » August 5, 2014, 11:49 pm

Jello wrote:Putting aside the "Thai-Face" factor, I would consider it odd if I called my landlord and worked out a arrangement and was then later called by my landlords spouse complaining about it. In some instances that could be considered harassment.

Just to add. She never called. We had to call. The arrangement to pay on the 5th was just a "take it or leave it"

In my opinion she know that she is wrong but she just can't stand that someone is telling here directly that what she is doing is unfair and now she want to make her big show. She even doesn't call me only my wife and threatens her with her lawyer.

Post by **Jello** » August 6, 2014, 12:29 am

Then you should be glad that she is moving out.

Get new tenants and as I said in my 2nd paragraph "Get your wife on the same page and stick to the contract." If they don't pay on the due date, don't accept excuses, just start the eviction process. If you don't know what that process is you should go talk to a lawyer.

Their are property management companies here that will manage your rental for you. May be worth the extra money when dealing with problem tenant's like this.

Post by **maaka** » August 6, 2014, 4:28 am

my guess is that this is your first time as a landlord..when in such a position you have to be firm..you have a contract that sets the boundries of the rental agreement. there should have been a late payment clause in the contract stating what happens in such an advent, say a 10% charge for ever day payment is late..Still you should have stuck to the contract being the 26th. once you went outside that, you opened yourself up to abuse, and things became to relaxed.
.
Again who is the landlord, you, or your wife..like someone said, you both need to be on the same page, or singing the same song...if the tenant wanted a change to payment date, new boundries / rules should have been set in place, and really the contract shoul;d be been altered if it was a permanent thing, and further that if any delay was after the 5th, a further 10% charge was to be paid etc etc..of course everything has gone to heck now, but for next time, stick to the above, its business, not friendly hour...they have money if they can afford your price..

you have a Tiger by the tail now..I would get them out, but that is a problem if they play hard ball...the woman is cunning and will give you problems all the way to the end no doubt...you may have to ride the 5 months out..let the wife deal with it all, and keep out of it, or the woman will come up with some other complaint about you..when the 5 months are up , stick a For Sale sign up at the front of house and give them Notice to Vacate, then once gone take the sign down and start all over again, but stick to the contract next time...as long as you get the money somehow, and your house is not damaged you'll be ok....and I would have talked to her husband, man to man in the first instance when matters started going south...men are supposed to be the head of Thai families, just like farang are...however now you are best leaving it to your wife..

I had a deal / verbal contract in Udon not so long ago, and the other party changed the deal after the money was in thier hot little hand, so I got my business face on, and told them that my word is my bond, that we had an agreement, and now I have lost face, because they changed things, how can I trust you, or respect you if etc etc...they understood that, the loosing face, and respect bit ' and they came back with the most amazing offer just to put face right...so there is an art to doing Thai business, and it starts with your original approach, your firmness of sticking to the agreement, etc etc...

this is only my thinking...
you are to decide your own way forward..

Post by **wazza** » August 6, 2014, 10:00 am

Keep the bond you have and say its in lieu of late payment fees

Thai Landlords are notorious for not refunding bonds anyway.

The lease / rental agreement would be in your wife's name, so she has a point to be honest.

What does your lease / rental agreement have in writing for late payments, ??

If its not in writing, it doesn't apply, ask any lawyer,

Post by **sabaiking** » August 6, 2014, 12:52 pm

Ok turned about to be the heat has come down.

Tenant called my wife today and apologized for what happened yesterday. She had a bad day and just overreacted. Also paid today for rental.

So...sabai sabai... or whatever .. I guess..

Post by **maaka** » August 6, 2014, 2:36 pm

good to hear Matey...
her hubby probably told her to make amends..
now your back in charge, so dont let it slip again..
good luck, and thanks for sharing your story

Post by **sabaiking** » September 7, 2014, 1:25 pm

So this month the same sh** again. It is the 7th and tenant doesn't answer on any phone numbers.

Post by **wazza** » September 7, 2014, 2:02 pm

Change the locks and notice served to terminate lease

Post by **sabaiking** » September 7, 2014, 8:59 pm

wazza wrote:Change the locks and notice served to terminate lease

Yes my wife sent another message today and told that we will lock the house if she does not call us back. 10 minutes later tenant called. She is "still" abroad and can't pay. She probably will pay at the 15th. My wife told her that she has to now or leave the house we don't play this game anymore. Tenant says she will leave on the 15th and hung up the phone call... call was just a minute long... this lady is sooo....*arrrgghhhh* .... I just hope she really leaves and the house is okay and she doesn't steal our furniture and appliances

Post by **wazza** » September 8, 2014, 4:40 am

Change locks no matter what as she will do a runner. Leaving power. Water and phone ? For u to pay. Hope ur deposit covers that...

Post by **thrilled** » September 8, 2014, 8:16 am

Renting can be such A headache.Out of all the tenants that I have rented to ,only 1 paid on the day the rent was due.
I think it's A hastle having to call,hunt the tenant down to get the money.
I feel for you.You might just consider selling the place.
It don't sound like your suited for the rental business.Same as me.Good Luck.

Post by **sabaiking** » September 8, 2014, 4:03 pm

thrilled wrote:Renting can be such A headache.Out of all the tenants that I have rented to ,only 1 paid on the day the rent was due.
I think it's A hastle having to call,hunt the tenant down to get the money.
I feel for you.You might just consider selling the place.
It don't sound like your suited for the rental business.Same as me.Good Luck.

Yes you are right...many headaches... actually my first tenant was perfect..nice family, house in very good condition...if they paid later they called, apologized, apologized and paid. But current tenant doesn't pay, does not call to say she will pay later, doesn't apologize, comes up with some international business story (being abroad), shouting at me on phone calls, etc.... Also some very strange stories had been told to us from neighbors and security guy about the tenant.

I feel always kind of lame to call for rental because I am actually guy with who you talk can about if there is a problem. If someone pays a few days later I really don't care.